FS: Curved custom rosewood TL speaker box (Melb)

SOLD

Item: Curved custom rosewood TL speaker including Vifa drivers

Location: Melbourne, Vic (Seaford - near Frankston)

Item Condition: See below

Reason for selling: Fund next speaker project

Price: SOLD

Payment Method: Pickup - Cash,

Extra Info: Drivers now included with some custom options added

Pictures: See below ... see updated photo including driver in post 22

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13844[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]13845[/ATTACH]

For sale is a pair of curved transmission line floorstanders in Melbourne Australia. They were hand crafted around 2004. When you see them you'll realise why they are a one of a kind - very difficult to curve a TL speaker! They were "carved out" and shaped by hand using a hand plane (around 8 hours for that alone) and many hours work with a belt sander.

Front baffle is 36mm MDF, 18mm rear and the sides vary from 18 - 30mm due to the curve. The base at the bottom is made out of solid hardwood.

The veneer is Pommele Makore and was purchased as a long roll of 700mm wide to eliminate any joins. It has a redish colour and I stained it rosewood then sprayed many coats of satin varnish and polished by hand.

Driver recess is for Vifa P17 and D25AG drivers. The midbass has been modified for better performance, including a phase plug on the two mid drivers. Colour choice available on the phase plugs.

The inside is lined with open cell foam and dacron filling is also included.

Not shown but included are a pair of grilles which I made (I never really use them).

Reason for selling?

Upgraditis. These will fund some pricey drivers for a new open baffle speaker. I have a definite open baffle preference and want to try some completely different drivers that will suit OB more.

How do they sound?

IMHO they are a cut above conventional box speakers. Like sealed boxes, you can fill the box with stuffing to kill reflections and get a more neutral sound - you can do this without giving up bass. You get deep and natural bass. Going from these speakers only to subs was very disappointing as the bass was far less articulate than I was used to. Acoustic double bass is particularly good. They also go deep. I've measured ~23 Hz in room extension in rooms which didn't appear to have any room gain. This is very room dependant however.

Their sound is neutral and laid back. I'm including some adjustment of the tweeter level so the buyer can have them tweaked to taste. Tweeter level makes a big difference and is a matter of personal taste. I can also show you how to adjust it later yourself if your preference changes. It's cheap, simple and no measuring is required.

How much?

$900 including boxes, stuffing, crossover and drivers. Buyer pays for any extras such as different paint on the phase plugs, crossover upgrades. No expertise needed - I will do the necessary work. You save quite a bit compared to bulding yourself, and thousands when comparing to a commercial equivalent.

The price is listed as firm as I believe they are already cheaper than they should be. Rather than factor in a bigger price then bringing it down, I'm offering up front my lowest price I would consider.

Condition

They are hand crafted and not perfect. They feature a few things you wouldn't find in a factory made speaker. Things like the hardwood base, and double layer veneer at the egdes to allow rounding, and of course the curved sides. However, they aren't as pristine as a factory made box. The veneer is difficult to work with and the sides have some cracks. Few people notice unless I point this out. It's not easy to photograph and it's best to come and have a look and a listen.

Demo

If you are seriously considering buying them, send me a PM and we'll organise an audition. Bring your music, take your time and we'll probably have a good chat about audio. I'll give you a demo with different tweeter levels so you can choose your preferred voicing option. I'm my experience this is a big factor in being satisfied with the sound of your system long term. Happy to accomodate if you'd like to bring in your amp.

What do they suit?

When it comes to music or home theatre, and different types of music, they are an "all rounder." Their particular blend of traits suits all types of music pretty well. Obviously for home theatre you would want to add a sub, not so much for the extension but because movies typically require 10db level increase in the bass, best done with a sub. What makes them an all rounder? They have a forgiving nature. Poorly recorded music (most CDs you could buy) won't sound awful on them. Some speakers have a very analytical nature revealing every small flaw. These are a little more forgiving. I had a similar impression of Luck Dog's prevsiou speakers - Dynaudio contours. I wouldn't put these at the same level, (we're talking about a $30k speaker) but if you like them I'd say you'll like these.

One particular strength is acoustic double bass. Most commercial floorstanders use vented bass, and the difference shows up clearly here. If you match these up with a sub that isn't very articulate, you will pick the difference easily.

Comments on the drivers

The Vifa P17 is a classic driver. It has a nice smooth extended response out to 8k with no harsh cone breakup. Few midbass drivers have a comparable flat midrange, and this makes it easy to work with. You can actually run the mid all the way out to 8k and it works fine, but I prefer the crossover as it stands now. You can get technically superior drivers and I've heard many speakers I'd describe that way - they don't necessarily sound better. Scan Speak drivers tend to sound drier but at much higher cost. These Vifa drivers commit "sins of omission." In other words, they can really only be faulted for leaving things out - they aren't quite as detailed as higher end drivers like Seas Excel. If that proves a good thing or not depends on what you listen to. If you restrict yourself to "audiophile recordings" then you may prefer more revealing speakers.

The Vifa D25 is an aluminium dome, but there's no need to fear harshness or brightness. It's anything but. The sound is smooth and laid back. Natalie Cole is smooth and sweet on these. To my ears the sound is "just right." Some believe that aluminium is harsh and fabric domes are smooth. In reality I've heard fabric domes that were more bright and less smooth, even Vifa drivers.

They aren't as good as Scan Speak drivers, but at the asking price you couldn't buy raw SS drivers. These are easily good enough to get immersed in the music. The question I ask is "do they draw attention or do they stand back and let me enjoy the music?" For me they just work.

Specs

1200mm high x 360 deep x 210 wide at front

Weight: 33kg each

Tweeter is at ~900mm high which is ear level on most couches

Sensitivity: 88 db 1w 1m or 91 db (2.83V) - 4 ohms impedance

Bass extension: haven't measured nearfield but see comments in post

Construction: 18mm MDF, double layer front baffle, inner brace, hardwood base, sides are 18 - 30mm thick

Finish: Pommele Makore real wood veneer in one sheet with no joins, rosewood colour with clear satin finish which has been polished

Photos - they are VERY hard to photograph! They actually don't look as dark in real life as this one:

Front view:

As you can see, the sides and top are curved which creates an interesting line on the top edge where the two curves join.

Top:

Rear view:

The rear chamber is lined with foam - I wanted the rear to look good as well. It's made 36mm thick around the terminus to create a more solid feel.

Top corner:

At each edge I made the veneer double thickness. The veneer itself is 0.5mm thick per layer. Two layers meant I could round over the edge slightly without going through the veneer. Gives it a more classy feel. It was very tedious and difficult to do with the curves. One thing I can't stand is sharp veneer edges and bits chipping off like cheap furniture.

Base:

I wanted to continue the curves to the base, so I added an inset base made of hardwood, painted satin black.

PS - there are TWO of them

qhy not sell them as speakers ie with all drivers?

then non diy types [me] might buy

david

impressive workmanship paul... very nice!

good luck with the sale :eek:

Thanks Kye! It was a killer of a job spread over a year (although partly because I'd use them unfinished for a few months).

David, for a few reasons:

1. I want the drivers and I've modified them (some may not like the change)

2. Some may already have drivers

3. Some may want different drivers that will work as well or better

And most importantly, I'm happy to help with sourcing and choosing drivers and if they really are completely diy shy then I'll install the drivers myself. I'm happy to do everything but design a new crossover (you can pay someone to do it, or easily find an already designed crossover by a competent enthusiast). There really is no reason for non diyers to hold back. It's just that diyers are more likely to appreciate how much a diy speaker is for whatever amount you spend (unless they make some really bad choices).

I think I'm due for a bump!

Hi Paul, I've been looking at these and thinking how I could adapt them to a number of other projects I have in my head............and at the moment I can't come up with anything. In the photo showing the rear chamber, are they runs in the clear coatings and if so, is that typical across the finish on both boxes?

Cheers,

Keith

While they aren't perfect, there aren't any runs. They were sprayed with many coats (can't remember how many) and then cut and polish many times over. I did this on a number of occasions (3 as I recall), as I do eventually run out of elbow grease!

They will suit the original drivers, or any with the same dimensions as Vifa P17 and D25. 170mm 6.5" midbass and the tweeter is around 105mm.

I only ask the cost of materials. For someone about to build something like this, or who doesn't have the means, this is ideal.

While they aren't perfect, there aren't any runs. They were sprayed with many coats (can't remember how many) and then cut and polish many times over. I did this on a number of occasions (3 as I recall), as I do eventually run out of elbow grease!

They will suit the original drivers, or any with the same dimensions as Vifa P17 and D25. 170mm 6.5" midbass and the tweeter is around 105mm.

I only ask the cost of materials. For someone about to build something like this, or who doesn't have the means, this is ideal.

Okay Paul, I really don't want to take this any further because I just unfortunately don't think I can adapt the enclosures for what I want to do. The photo showing the rear chamber though does show the side of the box with curtaining or running on the side..........if they aren't runs, what are they? The only reason I ask is if anyone was to buy these enclosures they would need to block these out and recoat the clear finish.

Cheers,

Keith

Okay Paul, I really don't want to take this any further because I just unfortunately don't think I can adapt the enclosures for what I want to do. The photo showing the rear chamber though does show the side of the box with curtaining or running on the side..........if they aren't runs, what are they? The only reason I ask is if anyone was to buy these enclosures they would need to block these out and recoat the clear finish.

Cheers,

Keith

Hi Keith,

What you see appears to be 'burl' in the timber veneer, or just areas of 'wild grain' usually found in the crotch of a tree trunk where a branch has grown. Highly figured grain such as this has a 3D effect, and is usually highly sought after. Would cost a packet in solid timber, so is usually sliced into veneer sheets for a 'classy effect' on furniture.

Regards,

Darren

Thanks Darren.

All that needs to be done is install drivers and xo! That's it. A photo can only show so much. The veneer is pommele makore, which was the most impressive I could find that was available in a wide roll (700mm in this case). This means no joins.

I was showing these to a friend tonight who is amazed that I'd let them go for so little. Good excuse for a very late bump! I now have them set up again (they are so much prettier than my open baffle or omni prototypes), and they have reminded me how good they are. Still available and a real bargain for budget conscious audiophiles.

that looks amazing, the finish is incredible

the buyer will be one lucky guy, looks like a lot has gone into them

Wonder if the cutouts will suit the Scanspeak revelators?

Would they suit a TL?

Hrmm will have to do some research in the morning...

Were you thinking of this one?

http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/18w_8831g00.htm

The driver is bigger in diameter (182mm) and the rebate would need to be made deeper by 2mm. The front baffle is 36mm thick and the width is 210mm so not a problem. They won't drop right in but it's a matter of making the cut outs and rebates bigger. The mid to tweeter distance would still be ok.

The cut outs and flush mounting are set up for 170mm (6.5" midbass) outer diameter and 104mm for the tweeter. The rebates to allow flush mounting are ~4.5mm.

I expect that most decent hifi midbass drivers would work quite well in the TL. The alignment is not like a vented box in that matching the parameters is not so critical. The design is based on three parameters: first, length of the line which affects tuning, secondly the area of the line at both ends and the taper rate. It's actually quite simple. While some drivers are more suited than others, the room specific issues (gain and room modes) are far more significant and difficult to predict. The extension I can get out of these is little different to my subs which have 20 Hz anechoic extension.

Looking at the parameters of the driver I linked, the fs is a little lower (28 vs 35) but the Qts, mms, BL are very similar to the Vifa P17. I expect the Revelator would work equally well in the TL.

The ideal scenario is where you can come and see them and bring the drivers over. I'm quite happy for a serious buyer to try them out first, even with different drivers. If the drivers fit and you have a crossover, there's no problem. If you don't like the result you can pull out, and perhaps I can help with suggestions on how you might get what you want. Of course, if I make mods to the box, buyer would need to pay first.

Another option. I'd consider selling with the vifa drivers. They fit and work well and you can hear them exactly as they will be (except different room and components). I did have plans for my drivers as surrounds next year, but I can easily find others. Only thing is, dust caps on two of the drivers have been removed as part of a driver mod. I can't tell the difference but they do measure better - flatter and better time domain performance.

Want to see how much for a commercial TL with these drivers?

$5k at CAV:

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/675

http://www.pmc-speakers.com/product.php?mode=view&pid=173

Technically the drivers are not exactly the same, but it gives a good idea of a retail equivalent. Personally I prefer an elegent curved one off speaker.

Back to the SS drivers. My guess is that they would work very well and just give a drier sound than the Vifa drivers. Before I built these I went to the LSK showroom. I heard a demo of their TL speaker (same midbass driver at the time) alongside a scan speak monitor they no longer sell. The SS had a very dry solid sound which I actually preferred, but their particular design had only one midbass and was quite low in efficiency.

Thanks Paul,

It's actually the 18S's I have.

Affraid i'm not game enough to want to butcher your beautiful cabinets by trying to increase the speaker cutout.

I'll admit it does involve some careful work to redo the rebate. If you aren't game to do it but are serious enough, I can probably get it done for $50 extra. (I have someone in mind who would do it better than me).

Great work - pm sent.

wow, the classifieds are getting busy! Bump

Still available

Bumpage ... I have them hooked up at the moment to allow for auditions.

Update to price as drivers are now included

I've had quite a few enquiries, but no one has actually yet heard them. If a comparable commercial speaker was going for this price, it be gone pretty quick. So for those who see the value in a custom diy speaker, it's a killer of a bargain. A custom speaker should go for more than a mass produced equivalent, but reality is different.

I've decided to throw in the drivers as well and adjust the price. I've seen the drivers recently on another thread. To build this project from scratch (and there are people still doing this, one emailed me a few days ago), would cost quite a bit more. It would cost about $600 for the box for materials, and the drivers ...

Tweeter $74

http://www.digitalmegahouse.com.au/onlinestore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=25

Midbass $125

http://www.digitalmegahouse.com.au/onlinestore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=35

Driver cost: $648

That comes to $1248 not including the crossover! And there is a lot of work to build it. It took me a year to build this.

The drivers have been modified for improved performance - the two mid drivers. The mod includes glue rings applied to the back of the drivers so they can't be seen, and removing the dust caps. The mod improves the time domain performance and flattens out the response beyond the stock driver. I can provide more details if desired.

I've made phase plugs, but they have been sealed and await a final colour. That means you get to choose the colour. I can paint them in black, but if you prefer you can choose any colour. I'll leave it to the buyer to get a spray can and I'll spray it then attach. You might choose between silver, gold and black which I think would work best.

I will also include some crossover tweaking. Tweeter level is a matter of personal taste. I'll demonstrate different amounts of eq on the treble to help with the choice, then I will add on a tweeter pad to get the chosen level.

I will also upgrade any crossover parts if desired and solder them in on the spot.

Buyer will need to cover the cost of any extras such as different colours for the phase plugs, crossover changes and upgrades, but I will happily do any soldering or painting as needed.

I was originally only selling the boxes, but now I'm selling the lot to fund the next upgrade including some pricey drivers.

Photo shows the phase plug temporarily attached for the photo.

I'm in the market for a couple of new tower speakers, but as they're custom and I can't audition them, I'm not comfortable putting down the cash for them.

They do look good, and I'm sure they sound great too.

Shame (for me) you're not in Sydney!

Have a free bump anyway

Hey Paul,

What about a picture with the drivers installed? They look great nude but really need something to finish them off - like drivers.

See first post - I've now added photos with drivers and a close up in post 22. The white phase plugs are only temporarily attached so they can be painted any colour before I attach them permanently.