Doctor Faustus Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 @Zaphod Beeblebroxthank you for the info - there are "noiseless fans" for computers (sitting next to one) - are there any amplifiers that are cooled ? or is the noise an issue?
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 Just now, Toyboyo said: @Zaphod Beeblebroxthank you for the info - there are "noiseless fans" for computers (sitting next to one) - are there any amplifiers that are cooled ? or is the noise an issue? There are products which use well designed and implemented systems to deal with noise and vibration encountered with fans. These systems are vastly more sophisticated than those typically found in computers and professional equipment. I've measured noise levels that are lower than that produced by a potted, enclosed toroidal power transformer. IOW: Very, VERY quiet.
Guest scumbag Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, Toyboyo said: Dear @scumbag No need to get upset or emotional over your choice of gear or mine. I am trying to make a buyer's decision and have asked people for their opinion and voiced my concerns over new tech so as to hear their views on these concerns. As a matter of fact that is why I started this thread (some people did not know that as it is a lot to read!!) I have not anywhere trashed the amplifiers..as a matter of fact I said that for a good price I would buy one-- so you have not read my posts obviously. The price in my view needs to take in to account their length of life. I have read everyone's experience and the comments about temperature alarm me and I have said so - if the case gets hot and there is no room for ventilation then my comments re degradation are a fair point and I welcome views on this @Zaphod Beeblebrox Z: I am commenting about CPUs and RAM which are far more sensitive to temperature and degrade over time with heat. "Old time" amps which heat up significantly do not have these components and when one brings up valves is heat not one of the things that degrades them? My apologies for misinterpreting your posts. I don't own a Dev' though, as I said, so I am not trying to defend a purchase as I stated. I have used one extensively so I can speak from experience. The heat has plenty of places to go as the whole case is a heat sink. The cooling mechanism may be superior to some other conventional amp's. Also the heat that needs to be shed is lower so there is no need for fans. As I've said, I've owned Class-A and valve amps that have run hot. The First Watt stuff is purely limited in the power output by thermal limitations. Those amp's have no thermal safeguards whereas the Devialet has as the status (power output, heat, incoming voltage and current etc) of the Devialet is monitored by the internal brains of the device. If there is a heat event then the amp' would shut itself down. I've not tested this myself (it's not my amp to test this!) but I assume it will be set to around 65 degrees. That should be within the un-derated range for good capacitors.
Guest scumbag Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 9 hours ago, Saunter said: I don't know what is going on with my system. Recently turned my LE 200 into a LE 400.. I really don't like the sound. Somehow the sound has hardened up and is flat. The mid range has a kind of glare and separation is worse. There is no treble sweetness. It sounds like ass. There is more detail, yes.. the bass is better, yes... but every other area has gone backwards. There is no depth to the sound stage whatsoever. I just don't have any idea why and i feel incredibly disappointed. Maybe the 400 shows up all other deficiencies more... or something... or maybe the companion is faulty. I just don't know what to do to get the sound i want. The only thing that has really changed other than adding a companion is the power cords. I was feeding the LE 200 via a Less Loss DFPC but since i only had one i am feeding the master and slave with Furutech 314 Ag cords. Surely it couldn't all be because of that.... could it ? I do suspect i need a speaker upgrade too. Currently using Lenehan ML2 Reference. Maybe they don't suit Devialet but i always found them a bit dry. Or maybe i just don't like the Devialet sound... and now i have a 400 i am getting more of it. Gaaaaah... exasperated given the money that has gone into this.. Help.. suggestions ?? Hi, I've read similar comments on the Devialet Chat forum too. Some people are over the moon about the Le Expert to Pro upgrade and others have been left a bit cold. I'm going to bet that it has a lot to do with the ML speakers which are quite analytical. You may also want to look at your source and have a think about its character too. Adjustments to your choice of speaker cable may give you some relief. Who knows, depending on your listening room, adding some softer elements and diffusers / absorbers might even help things. I would try to hang in there with the Dev'. You've invested a lot in it and you'll cope a big loss if you sell it. Id be trying all sorts of things. An example, in my room which is quite bright and with my speakers, the Dev' can sound a bit bright. I've ordered some bass traps and absorbers to get around that but in the meantime I've found that using a Yellowtec PUC2 between my source and the Dev' has really warmed up the sound. And not warmed in the bad, softened treble way either. Also choosing a coaxial cable with a more relaxed character (but still detailed) made things a lot more listenable.
Saunter Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 Hi Scumbag, I have played around with various speaker cables and keep coming back to Neotech 3001 as the only one that even approaches what i am after. I don't think it has much if anything to do with those cables since i have compared them to Mike's latest, Sablon Audio Panatela, some midrange Analysis Plus and Atlas Mavros.... it is better than all of those. (although Mavros is about equal but different) I appreciate what you say about the room... it used to be a bright room but with added furnishings and a change in orientation that has been fixed. It is a good sized room. Since i am streaming over WiFi i don't have to worry about coaxial cable quality. Using Roon with Fidelizer (free) to stream over a strong network. Yeah, i want to hang in there, to solve this issue and enjoy the music i love to the maximum. I am not about to change the Devs unless i can't Get there. I know we all have different tastes etc..... I was advised that going from my Accuphase E360 to a Devialet LE200 (by a retailer who sells both) would give me a lift in SQ. I had both at home to compare and i concurred. I would have thought that going up to a 400 would have given even more..... but that is not my experience. Maybe i need to borrow some Harbeths or buy some second hand to see if the speaker amp reaction is the cause.
Pim Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Just some comments on Devialet and heat; The case is made of a solid block of aluminium that's much larger than the heat sinks you see in a traditional amp. Devialet is in pretty good company with this technology; Dan d'Agostino and Ayre's top of the range models use their cases as heat sinks. Devialet is the only one out of these three that use ADH technology which makes their amps run cooler than class A/B amps. All hot components inside are connected to the case with some sort of gum for heat transfer. Below is a link to Devialet Chat where a guy pulled his whole D apart: https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=1641&pid=22764 There's also a bit of conversation going on there about temperature and as you can see, 55 degrees is about as hot as it gets in there. Devialet amps have been around since 2010 without a problem. I'm not a rich man and I bought an Original d' Atelier. I really can't afford for this amp not to last me at least 20 years. In fact, I bought it with new speakers in mind that will probably take another 5 years of saving before I can get them. I wouldn't have bought the Od'A if I was afraid of a bit of heat. Edited April 28, 2017 by Pim 2
Pim Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 Forgot to add to the above; The Pro series has more power. They transfer the extra heat these amps produce via a copper base plate. Surely they know what they're doing.
Pim Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 19 hours ago, Saunter said: I don't know what is going on with my system. Recently turned my LE 200 into a LE 400.. I really don't like the sound. Somehow the sound has hardened up and is flat. The mid range has a kind of glare and separation is worse. There is no treble sweetness. It sounds like ass. There is more detail, yes.. the bass is better, yes... but every other area has gone backwards. There is no depth to the sound stage whatsoever. I just don't have any idea why and i feel incredibly disappointed. Maybe the 400 shows up all other deficiencies more... or something... or maybe the companion is faulty. I just don't know what to do to get the sound i want. The only thing that has really changed other than adding a companion is the power cords. I was feeding the LE 200 via a Less Loss DFPC but since i only had one i am feeding the master and slave with Furutech 314 Ag cords. Surely it couldn't all be because of that.... could it ? I do suspect i need a speaker upgrade too. Currently using Lenehan ML2 Reference. Maybe they don't suit Devialet but i always found them a bit dry. Or maybe i just don't like the Devialet sound... and now i have a 400 i am getting more of it. Gaaaaah... exasperated given the money that has gone into this.. Help.. suggestions ?? Try the new 10.1.0 firmware. Apparently it's quite good. Some prefer the 7.1.3 firmware and swear it's unbeatable. I'm not sure if it can to dual mono but send me a PM and I can send you the firmware. Worth a try.
Guest scumbag Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Pim said: Try the new 10.1.0 firmware. Apparently it's quite good. Some prefer the 7.1.3 firmware and swear it's unbeatable. I'm not sure if it can to dual mono but send me a PM and I can send you the firmware. Worth a try. Can you run 7.1.3 on the new Pro platform?? I have been using this version and really loving it myself on the Expert 120 in my office setup. Going up to V8+ definitely increases bass presence and increases low volume detail but I find myself coming back to the more "organic" sound of 7.1.3. Here are most of the firmwares: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B37I6R9WFMiANHhVLUZ6RUo5OEU
gray Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) For those Devialet owners who are worried about heat DPM (Dynamic Power Management) can be enabled in le configurateur. On my D200 temperatures can climb into the 60's sans DPM but never leave the 40's with DPM enabled. Edited April 28, 2017 by gray Grammar
PKay Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, gray said: For those Devialet owners who are worried about heat DPM (Dynamic Power Management) can be enabled in le configurateur. On my D200 temperatures can climb into the 60's sans DPM but never leave the 40's with DPM enabled. Does it affect the SQ?
Pim Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 1 hour ago, scumbag said: Can you run 7.1.3 on the new Pro platform?? I have been using this version and really loving it myself on the Expert 120 in my office setup. Going up to V8+ definitely increases bass presence and increases low volume detail but I find myself coming back to the more "organic" sound of 7.1.3. Here are most of the firmwares: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B37I6R9WFMiANHhVLUZ6RUo5OEU I don't think you can run 7.1.3 on the Pros but I also have a 200 which i had since it was a 170 so I happen to have the firmware. I have to admit I've never done an AB on different firmware versions except that when I got my Od'A it had version 9 on it and I tried the first version 10. Didn't like 10 and went back to 9. I haven't tried the new 10.1.0 yet but some on Devialet Chat seem to love it.
gray Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, Nap250 said: Does it affect the SQ? There are many who say that it does have a negative impact. I've never bothered to create the 2 sd cards with identical configurations but one with DPM and the other without, so as to compare within a short time frame. My feeling is that there is not so much difference that you wouldn't use it if you were worried about excessively high temperatures.
Pim Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, gray said: There are many who say that it does have a negative impact. I've never bothered to create the 2 sd cards with identical configurations but one with DPM and the other without, so as to compare within a short time frame. My feeling is that there is not so much difference that you wouldn't use it if you were worried about excessively high temperatures. No need for a re-configuration. You can turn it on/off by going through balance/bass/treble and on the next page there should be DPM as well. 1
Saunter Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 17 hours ago, Pim said: Try the new 10.1.0 firmware. Apparently it's quite good. Some prefer the 7.1.3 firmware and swear it's unbeatable. I'm not sure if it can to dual mono but send me a PM and I can send you the firmware. Worth a try. Hi Pim, I am on the latest firmware... and have tried a couple of others for fun. There are some minor differences but nothing that rectifies what i am experiencing.
jt301 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, Saunter said: What Speakers are Devialet owners using ? Whatmough P33 signatures. Unfortunately no SAM available for them.
Sir Triode Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 1 hour ago, jt301 said: Whatmough P33 signatures. Unfortunately no SAM available for them. You can take your speakers to a dealer when they have the guys down from France to do the SAM measurements.
jt301 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 Thanks Sir Triode. I'm aware of that option. However dragging 90 Kgs of speakers around is a bit of a disincentive. 1
PKay Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Saunter said: What Speakers are Devialet owners using ? ML1 Reference. What is your front end and cables?
Saunter Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Nap250 said: ML1 Reference. What is your front end and cables? No Cables ........ well yeah i have speaker cables. Streaming over WiFi using Roon on a overpowered Windows 10 laptop.
PKay Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 Just now, Saunter said: No Cables ........ well yeah i have speaker cables. Streaming over WiFi using Roon on a overpowered Windows 10 laptop. I would suggest you try connecting the laptop directly into the dac to see if it is your wifi configuration causing problems. The Lenehans (ml1) definitely image well and throw a very wide sound stage so I doubt it is the speakers. The other thing you could try it to go back to factory default settings. The other thing i would highly recommend is to see if you can borrow a yellowtec puc2 or Singxer. A relatively small outlay will yield a very beneficial SQ impact IME.
Guest scumbag Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 Just now, Nap250 said: I would suggest you try connecting the laptop directly into the dac to see if it is your wifi configuration causing problems. The Lenehans (ml1) definitely image well and throw a very wide sound stage so I doubt it is the speakers. The other thing you could try it to go back to factory default settings. The other thing i would highly recommend is to see if you can borrow a yellowtec puc2 or Singxer. A relatively small outlay will yield a very beneficial SQ impact IME. I did some listening this week with AIR just to compare it to my normal setup (SOTM SMS200 feeding a PUC2 Lite) and whilst the AIR streaming sounded somewhat more detailed, I found swapping back to the PUC2 more enjoyable. That's just my 2 bobs worth.
PKay Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, scumbag said: I did some listening this week with AIR just to compare it to my normal setup (SOTM SMS200 feeding a PUC2 Lite) and whilst the AIR streaming sounded somewhat more detailed, I found swapping back to the PUC2 more enjoyable. That's just my 2 bobs worth. I never could get air to work, it was beyond my skill level.
Saunter Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 Those are all useful comments ... but i don't know that they will create the shift in SQ i am missing. Remember that with the LE200 whilst not quite as detailed and with slightly lesser bass performance i enjoyed the sound more. Maybe i really do need to shift brands or change speakers.. I do hasve some tweaking to do when some goodies arrive... i hope there is a positive affect.
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