acg Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 I finally lashed out on a Sansui TU-X1 tuner. Gotta love something worth more now than when it was new over 35 years ago, but they have a great reputation and I do desperately want to be able to listen to live concerts when possible...sort of make it a date with my wife, put the kids to bed and retreat to the music room to listen to Mahler down at QPAC or the BBC proms at Royal Albert Hall. So I call a local antenna mob about installing something on the roof to point at the Bunya Mountains so my ancient, overpriced, oversized black box of Japanese beauty can help me enjoy quality time with my lovely wife that I no longer have to woo but want to anyway. But there is a spanner in my plan...the antenna guy has never done an FM installation and I don't really know enough about what I need to be sure someone like that gives me the right tool for the task. Who am I gonna call? Where do I find info on the antenna I need in my specific situation? What can I read? All help appreciated. Cheers, Anthony
darth vader Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 cant help you, but I have a bucket of popcorn and waiting to see how you go. I've been trying to get Melbourne FM here for years. On a good night I can almost get it in my car but not sure if the signal is only here sometimes. Maybe those nights the signal is bouncing, kinda like skip talking in the old CB radio days. Maybe @@catman knows something?
Assisi Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 I Anthony, I just went to my local tip and bought for a couple of dollars and old analogue TV aerial. I put it on my FM aerial pole and connected it to the amp box at the top. At the other end with a splitter I took a lead to the FM source. Works fine. John 2
davewantsmoore Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 Right, so I hit googl to find you some links .... and come up with nothing. That's pretty bad :/ Anyways.... You need a "band 2" VHF antenna. Polarisation (horisontal vs vertical) is different between stations in Oz, so if you are marginal with your reception, you may need to experiment with how you mount it. 1
Assisi Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 cant help you, but I have a bucket of popcorn and waiting to see how you go. I've been trying to get Melbourne FM here for years. On a good night I can almost get it in my car but not sure if the signal is only here sometimes. Maybe those nights the signal is bouncing, kinda like skip talking in the old CB radio days. Maybe @@catman knows something? I live only half an hour from you. With my set up I can get Ballarat FM 105.5 fine. If you are after commercial FM from Melbourne you maybe expecting too much as the FM signal does not travel as far as AM. Just tune in through the respective station's web site John John
Jventer Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) Hi Anthony Cant help but laugh - I had a Linn Kudos tuner - lovely. Worked like a charm in Alice Springs with and internal antenna. Move to Grafton, no luck. Using it in my office there is no way I can install an external antenna. So I go to the local radio installation business. They sold me an antenna similar to what you put on cars and boats - still not luck. So I sold the tuner and now listen to radio over the internet - sad. Anyway @ Asissi is correct - that will work. Good luck Edited May 11, 2016 by Jventer 1
darth vader Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 I live only half an hour from you. With my set up I can get Ballarat FM 105.5 fine. If you are after commercial FM from Melbourne you maybe expecting too much as the FM signal does not travel as far as AM. Just tune in through the respective station's web site John John You might be right there John, all my attempts have been futile. UHF and VHF aerials, and I still cant get the signal. Cant make silk purse from sows ear, but cant make sows ear from nothing.
catman Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) G'day all, if you are not too far from your local FM transmitters you can build this simple 2 element yagi which works very well for its simple design and compact design. I have built several of these with very good results and our 'local' FM transmitters are more than 70 miles away. Regards, Felix (vk4fuq). Edited May 11, 2016 by catman 3
Jesco Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 I finally lashed out on a Sansui TU-X1 tuner. Gotta love something worth more now than when it was new over 35 years ago, but they have a great reputation and I do desperately want to be able to listen to live concerts when possible...sort of make it a date with my wife, put the kids to bed and retreat to the music room to listen to Mahler down at QPAC or the BBC proms at Royal Albert Hall. So I call a local antenna mob about installing something on the roof to point at the Bunya Mountains so my ancient, overpriced, oversized black box of Japanese beauty can help me enjoy quality time with my lovely wife that I no longer have to woo but want to anyway. But there is a spanner in my plan...the antenna guy has never done an FM installation and I don't really know enough about what I need to be sure someone like that gives me the right tool for the task. Who am I gonna call? Where do I find info on the antenna I need in my specific situation? What can I read? All help appreciated. Hi Anthony, I bought one of these antennas about six years ago http://www.academytv.com.au/products/ATVFM3--%28FM-Radio-ONLY%29..html I live in a poor reception area but this FM directional antenna solved the problem! They also have a bigger model antenna than the above one if need be. You'll need a (from memory) 75 to 300 ohm balun as well (plus some coax 75 ohm cable as well). Your 'antenna guy' should be able to figure out the rest, one would hope... good luck with it. 3
TOPSHELF Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 When i looked into an Ariel for my NAT101 tuner i was told the best one to get was a Ron Smith galaxy, it may suit your needs too. Best of luck. 3
surprisetech Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 And use good quality low-loss RG6 quad-shield coax from the antenna to the Tuner. A lot of signal can be lost in the cable run. 4
krakatana Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 I was reading about these antenna designs the other day, no idea if they would help you: http://www.n7qvc.com/copper-cactus-dual-band-super-j-pole-antenna-project/ http://www.iw5edi.com/ham-radio/?the-copper-cactus-antenna,94 Also http://images.audioasylum.com/images/Rhombicantenna.pdf and http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherforum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5752 1
davewantsmoore Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 Your 'antenna guy' should be able to figure out the rest, one would hope... good luck with it. Yes. As to whether you need one like catman posted through to one of the large galaxie antenna ... You antenna guy should be able to measure the signal strength where you are and advise on gain required. 1
acg Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 Thanks for your input guys. A bit more information. FM transmitters for the two stations I am interested in are almost exactly 85km away on top of Mt Mowbullan. I am located in Toowoomba which is quite an elevated town, about 700m, but the house is in a valley with extensive trees in the direct path to the tower. Our television signal, which also comes from Mt Mowbullan, suffers because of these trees particularly in windy and wet weather. Saying that, I can sit in the driveway in my ute with its standard omnidirectional antenna and get FM perfectly well for both stations of interest. I have been reading about the TU-X1 tuners and it seems as though it is possible to flood the 75ohm input with signal if the antenna used has too much gain and things sound worse. People in this situation fit an inline attenuator to drop the signal strength of the signal they have just used a high gain antenna to amplify so understandably I am hoping to avoid this situation by fitting a directional antenna with the right amount of gain. The antenna will need to be directional because being on top of the range and within reach of Brisbane there can be quite a bit of crosstalk between Bris Vegas stations and other stations to the west. Luckily all the stations that I am interested in beam from the same mountain, so a directional antennae should work well when pointed away from Brisbane. So, I think some kind of yagi is going to be the right result. I might choose something mid-level for gain, say 5dB and see how that goes.
acg Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 And use good quality low-loss RG6 quad-shield coax from the antenna to the Tuner. A lot of signal can be lost in the cable run. Yep, I have run the quad shield already into the new music room.
Slartibartfast Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 I finally lashed out on a Sansui TU-X1 tuner. Gotta love something worth more now than when it was new over 35 years ago, but they have a great reputation and I do desperately want to be able to listen to live concerts when possible...sort of make it a date with my wife, put the kids to bed and retreat to the music room to listen to Mahler down at QPAC or the BBC proms at Royal Albert Hall. So I call a local antenna mob about installing something on the roof to point at the Bunya Mountains so my ancient, overpriced, oversized black box of Japanese beauty can help me enjoy quality time with my lovely wife that I no longer have to woo but want to anyway. But there is a spanner in my plan...the antenna guy has never done an FM installation and I don't really know enough about what I need to be sure someone like that gives me the right tool for the task. Who am I gonna call? Where do I find info on the antenna I need in my specific situation? What can I read? All help appreciated. Cheers, Anthony Give these guys a call. http://www.electrocraft.com.au/ They sell a compact and weatherproof 3 element yagi with in-built balun. All you'll need is a small mast pipe and some 75 ohm coaxial cable. 1
wartman Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 I had the same problem BI (before internet). Went to the library, borrowed books on antenna construction. Built antenna to match frequency with illusive radio station. Erected said antenna, worked great!! Small victory dance. The next month triple J started transmitting nearby........... Removed gigantic masterpiece from roof.
acg Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 Yes. As to whether you need one like catman posted through to one of the large galaxie antenna ... You antenna guy should be able to measure the signal strength where you are and advise on gain required. Good idea Dave. I will quiz him about that.
acg Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 I had the same problem BI (before internet). Went to the library, borrowed books on antenna construction. Built antenna to match frequency with illusive radio station. Erected said antenna, worked great!! Small victory dance. The next month triple J started transmitting nearby........... Removed gigantic masterpiece from roof. Haha...but a good solution in the end! I don't want to build the antenna...there is enough other stuff to build that I can better put my time towards. Just talked to an old fellow from SA on the phone and he reckoned he could build me an antenna but the parts he has there a sh*t and would only last a few years before the brackets rusted away. He said to buy a Matchmaster antenna because they are very well made...so that is my current line of inquiry.
catman Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) G'day all, in all honesty Yagi antenna design for the FM broadcast service can be messy as designing a single yagi to cover the full FM band (87.5 to 108 Megahertz) is quite a technical challenge as yagi antennas are inherently quite narrow banded antennas and broadening the operational gain and SWR bandwidth generally requires some performance trade offs. For this reason my liking is for yagi's with a maximium of five elements (one reflector, one driven element and three directors). However I have used simple two and three element yagi's in difficult locations with good results, and as stated earlier cable signal loss can be very considerable at these VHF frequencies. I also prefer to use 300 ohm balanced feedline as it has very low loss into the UHF range, but it has other limitations as well, as generally requiring a 4:1 baluns to effect proper impedance transformations which is important in the FM broadcast service for good technical reasons. A receiver with a true input for 300 ohm balanced feedline input is a definite advantage here. Regards, Felix (vk4fuq). Edited May 12, 2016 by catman
Slartibartfast Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 Haha...but a good solution in the end! I don't want to build the antenna...there is enough other stuff to build that I can better put my time towards. Just talked to an old fellow from SA on the phone and he reckoned he could build me an antenna but the parts he has there a sh*t and would only last a few years before the brackets rusted away. He said to buy a Matchmaster antenna because they are very well made...so that is my current line of inquiry. I agree. The cost of aluminium alone makes DIY almost a waste of time these days. FM antennas also need good bandwidth to cover the full 20MHz, and generally that's what you get with a well designed commercial product that uses a folded dipole driven element, or better still if it's log-periodic. It's not easy to design / build an antenna that covers +/- 10% from its designed frequency without serious gain droop or impedance mismatch at the frequency extremes. 2
Jesco Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 Haha...but a good solution in the end! I don't want to build the antenna...there is enough other stuff to build that I can better put my time towards. Just talked to an old fellow from SA on the phone and he reckoned he could build me an antenna but the parts he has there a sh*t and would only last a few years before the brackets rusted away. He said to buy a Matchmaster antenna because they are very well made...so that is my current line of inquiry. Matchmaster appear to make combo TV/FM antennas, but not a specific FM antenna, as far as I can tell from their awful website... For what it's worth, the FM antenna I bought is also very well made and is as good as the day I bought it six years ago. 2
Jesco Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 I agree. The cost of aluminium alone makes DIY almost a waste of time these days. FM antennas also need good bandwidth to cover the full 20MHz, and generally that's what you get with a well designed commercial product that uses a folded dipole driven element, or better still if it's log-periodic. It's not easy to design / build an antenna that covers +/- 10% from its designed frequency without serious gain droop or impedance mismatch at the frequency extremes. Yep, not likely one can build a well constructed FM antenna with good specs for less than the cost of a new one. My 3 ele yagi only cost something like $60... 2
acg Posted May 12, 2016 Author Posted May 12, 2016 Matchmaster appear to make combo TV/FM antennas, but not a specific FM antenna, as far as I can tell from their awful website... For what it's worth, the FM antenna I bought is also very well made and is as good as the day I bought it six years ago. I am not sure the combo antennas are an advantage or disadvantage. Also I don't know who could tell me from experience, but I do understand your sentiment. Your antenna is in the gain region I think I am after and if it is as well made as you say, then it may just be a good thing. Is is the only local yagi I have seen that is FM only, so maybe it is worth a shot.
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