RCA cables...Any Recommendations??

[Collis Ivey]

Hello

 

After 2 RCA to RCA cables to connect a Bel Canto Dac to a Naim Supernait.

 

What brands should I be looking at and is smaller lengths better??

 

Hope someone can help!!

[PKay]

Shorter lengths are cheaper and are preferable although will limit flexibility later if you move things around.

 

You could also look at second hand rca to 5 pin din.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultimate-1m-2-x-RCA-To-5-Pin-Locking-Din-Interconnect-For-Naim-Equipment-/200904979018?hash=item2ec6deb24a:g:SrkAAOSw~oFXJzIg

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Naim-audio-CD-player-1-5m-RCA-To-5-Pin-Locking-Din-Interconnect-cable-/331850031774?hash=item4d43cda29e:g:kHAAAOSwDNdVs8nU

 

I may be selling some Nordost Red Dawn 1m rca to 5 pin in the near future.

[Equaliser]

These are the best for its price I used them for 3 years before moving to my python cable.

http://www.audio-consulting.ch/?Products:Cables:Reference_RCA_Cable

Edited May 21, 2016 by liteneasy

[Collis Ivey]

Thank you to both users who got back to me. So many options...just want to get it right and not spend a fortune.

[SIAS FODNA]

Unfortunately,

 

The general rule of thumb that you get what you pay for doesn't seem to apply in audio land. Try to listen to other peoples systems and enquire about what they use when you hear something you like. Cables are the veins of your system, so if you have rubbish between two of the best components, they won't sound like the best. Maybe keep an eye on ebay for a quality second hand cable going cheap ?

[ABG]

Contact Geoff Maloney at Aurealis.  http://www.aurealisaudio.com.au/  He is a wealth of information on what cables pair best with what equipment and I have found his product to be first rate and well priced.

[Guest]

Hello

After 2 RCA to RCA cables to connect a Bel Canto Dac to a Naim Supernait.

What brands should I be looking at and is smaller lengths better??

Hope someone can help!!

I have a Nordost Blue Heaven cable that may suit!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[linn1]

On 15/06/2016 at 12:21 PM, Guest said:

I have a Nordost Blue Heaven cable that may suit!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

way to expensive for a Naim amp.. Good quality copper OFC is what you want .. nowt with jewellery value. I only use QED 79 strand on my speakers running pass amps

[SonicArt]

As others have said, price is not so indicative of what you get when it comes to certain aspects of audio, cables are a big one. I have sent you PM with some links, I can offer you some high performing very neutral interconnects at pricing that belies their quality.

[rantan]

Seven years.

[SonicArt]

LOL pays to look at the dates doesnt it! think I was on autopilot this morning...

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by SonicArt

[GaryT]

To be fair. 2016 in no way feels like 7 years ago.

 

 

[Misternavi]

3 hours ago, GaryT said:

To be fair. 2016 in no way feels like 7 years ago.

 

 

I still talk about the early 2000's like to was 2016

[stereo coffee]

Still its an interesting topic. We already see  excess of 75 ohm cables for SPDIF connection are not used correctly by the use of RCA terminations,  that should be BNC.   It indicates , that equally 75 ohm cables,  should be good for audio, and demonstrates putting them where they could be used, to much better use. 

[Addicted to music]

12 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

Still its an interesting topic. We already see  excess of 75 ohm cables for SPDIF connection are not used correctly by the use of RCA terminations,  that should be BNC.   It indicates , that equally 75 ohm cables,  should be good for audio, and demonstrates putting them where they could be used, to much better use. 

Irrelevant to the topic but why do you persist on generating incorrect information due to your lack of understanding on basic technologies? 

 

Ive already quoted you and said in another thread that Spdif lists RCA, BNC and AES as supporting standards for SPDIF.  So for you to persist to say that it’s better served with a  75ohm BNC terminating connector and with a 75 0hm cable is not correct as it supports all of the above mentioned terminating connectors and that’s the beauty of SPDIF.     Spdif is also biphase mark coding:  BMC that’s also know as F2F (frequency double frequency )  therefore it’s not looking for voltage levels in the transmitting carrier where different terminating impedance has an effect, it’s looking the numbers of high to low or low to high transitions in the signal within a clock cycle, so having a balanced 75 ohm impedance would not improve the status quo, in fact AES standards has been revised 3 times to current AES3 to support 24/192 and a number of improved standards since 2003 hence you’ll see current DAC offering showing up to 24/192 in their SPDIF specs compared to the article you quoted that’s 30yrs old.

Maybe you should bang on using Spdif optical that eliminates any impedance mismatch would be “correct information “ if your worried about the mismatch.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_Manchester_encoding

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2024 by Addicted to music

[stereo coffee]

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

Irrelevant to the topic but why do you persist on generating incorrect information due to your lack of understanding on basic technologies? 

 

Ive already quoted you and said in another thread that Spdif lists RCA, BNC and AES as supporting standards for SPDIF.  So for you to persist to say that it’s better served with a  75ohm BNC terminating connector and with a 75 0hm cable is not correct as it supports all of the above mentioned terminating connectors and that’s the beauty of SPDIF.     Spdif is also biphase mark coding:  BMC that’s also know as F2F (frequency double frequency )  therefore it’s not looking for voltage levels in the transmitting carrier where different terminating impedance has an effect, it’s looking the numbers of high to low or low to high transitions in the signal within a clock cycle, so having a balanced 75 ohm impedance would not improve the status quo, in fact AES standards has been revised 3 times to current AES3 to support 24/192 and a number of improved standards since 2003 hence you’ll see current DAC offering showing up to 24/192 in their SPDIF specs compared to the article you quoted that’s 30yrs old.

Maybe you should bang on using Spdif optical that eliminates any impedance mismatch would be “correct information “ if your worried about the mismatch.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_Manchester_encoding

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

 

 

 

A 75 ohm mandated requirement is specified so that the driver and receiver have the same matching impedance. The beauty of BNC is, it is 75 ohm whereas RCA is not. By using BNC you are inviting less error, complying with impedance standards for SPDIF and minimizing  timing jitter in the digital interface. .

 

Easiest thought of as that RCA's meet no specification whereas a BNC does. You need to ensure no reflections are being created , hence a BNC is the better choice. Reflections cause uncertainty at the receiver, which by using a BNC is easy to minimize,  as far as the digital interface is concerned.    

Edited February 3, 2024 by stereo coffee

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

Ive already quoted you and said in another thread that Spdif lists RCA, BNC and AES as supporting standards for SPDIF.  So for you to persist to say that it’s better served with a  75ohm BNC terminating connector and with a 75 0hm cable is not correct

Unfortunately.   SC is correct in this specific instance.

 

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

having a balanced 75 ohm impedance would not improve the status quo

It does.

 

A mismatch in the impedance between the circuit, connector and cables, creates distortion in the shape (hence timing) of the waveform.

[Addicted to music]

9 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Unfortunately.   SC is correct in this specific instance.

You are spot on wrong;   This is due to your lack of understanding on the technology and your bias.

The tech is as per designed for RCA BNC and AES support for ease of consumer use,   It makes no difference in which connector termination you use, it works with any 3 connection even with XLR 110 ohms, so get the fact right.  BTW that is fact fir spdif design criteria.  
 

 This isn’t designed for HF, VHF, UHF where terminating the impedance on cable length and connectors type is critical, far from it.  And because it’s biphase mark coding also know as F2F it’s deigned to resist and be insensitive to impedance  mismatching, , its looking at the number of transition change from high to low or low to high for a single clock cycle.  

 

If you want evidence go to  ASR on the FFT and many test shows that for spdif coax and usb and you’ll see most better design and better performing dacs are unaffected.  alternatively do a DBT and switch between coax with different termination types that it supports and compare it to the optic support, I can guarantee you won’t be able to tell the difference,   This topic has been banging on for years on SNA saying that it’s critical for 75 ohms, it’s actually not for spdif 

 

9 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

A 75 ohm mandated requirement is specified so that the driver and receiver have the same matching impedance. The beauty of BNC is, it is 75 ohm whereas RCA is not. By using BNC you are inviting less error, complying with impedance standards for SPDIF and minimizing  timing jitter in the digital interface. .

 

Agreed with certain frequency and cable lengths,  but not with short cable lengths of less than 5mtrs and definitely not with spdif,  however if you want it do it change it.  
if your that worried about it,  bang on using optical fibre will eliminate the problem also because most dac supports both coax and optic.  

Edited February 3, 2024 by Addicted to music

[Addicted to music]

9 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

 

A mismatch in the impedance between the circuit, connector and cables, creates distortion in the shape (hence timing) of the waveform.

Making this as a separate post to point out it would not matter in biphase mark coding or F2F as it looks at the number of transitions for high to low or L to H for a single clock cycle, so it’s insensitive to any distortion to the waveform,  it’s digital transmission and the quality of the waveform doesn’t matter as long as the criteria is meet, It’s not HF, VHF, UHF etc that is critical on cable length impedance termination and the use of connector impedance.    

Edited February 3, 2024 by Addicted to music

[davewantsmoore]

3 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

You are spot on wrong;   This is due to your lack of understanding on the technology and your bias.

Heh.

Oh dear.

 

2 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

so it’s insensitive to any distortion to the waveform

 

Let's be very clear.

 

The timing of SPDIF signal transitions can affect the receiver performance (aka. "jitter").

 

The characteristics impedance discontinuities (eg. between circuit and wiring, connector and cable, etc.) affect the timing of the signal.

 

BNC is superior in that regard.   RCA and XLR, are quite a lot worse, even for those which claim to be designed for 75/110.

 

The encoding scheme used in SPDIF, makes it less likely there is a data error (wrong bit), but that isn't relevant to the cause/effect on the timing of the data.

 

 

If your point is really "it (jitter) doesn't matter".... then fine.    SC just said it (jitter) happens and BNC is batter choice.   That's, in theory, right.

 

If your point is that I'm biased and I don't understand the technology.... then that's pretty cringe.

Edited February 4, 2024 by davewantsmoore

[Decky]

Make them yourself. It is easy, fun, gives you flexibility on the length and choice of connectors and you will learn something.

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

Making this as a separate post to point out it would not matter in biphase mark coding or F2F as it looks at the number of transitions for high to low or L to H for a single clock cycle, so it’s insensitive to any distortion to the waveform

For the detection of data, yes.

Jitter is a different thing.

 

You might want to say "jitter doesn't matter".  <shrug>

The impedance throughout the line affects it, though.

[davewantsmoore]

14 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

in fact AES standards has been revised 3 times to current AES3 to support 24/192 and a number of improved standards since 2003 hence you’ll see current DAC offering showing up to 24/192 in their SPDIF specs compared to the article you quoted that’s 30yrs old.

 

As an aside......  When they made an early change to AES/EBU digital audio.... why did they change the standard that the sender was a much higher impedance (250ohms ?) than the rest of the system..... to make the sender the same impedance (110) as the rest of the system?

 

Was it because the impedance discontinuity caused reflections in the line (and thus compromised performance)?   (Hint: Yes).

 

If this "isn't a problem" (in general) ... then why did they say/do that?  (Hint:  Because the impedance does affect the signal timing, hence (potentially) the performance.... which is what SC is saying)

 

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone that it's (jitter) a big general problem in modern DACs ,though ..... but the comment about BNC connectors, is correct <shrug>.

Edited February 4, 2024 by davewantsmoore

[Addicted to music]

10 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

 

 

Let's be very clear.

 

The timing of SPDIF signal transitions can affect the receiver performance (aka. "jitter").

 

 

 

Show me evidence that it does, because there is no evidence on any of the performing dacs with FFT plots that shows the difference between coax and USB to be effected.

And i have actually tested them, RCA XLR BNC,  there are no differences if you test the physical layers out inside there  specification parameters.  The only area where there is a difference is length of cable run and this is where the real issue lies that you and the other poster bang on about.

10 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

BNC is superior in that regard.   RCA and XLR, are quite a lot worse, even for those which claim to be designed for 75/110.

 

 

Agreed that BNC is superior, but for spdif it makes little difference as most of the better performing dacs show no deterioration in "jitter" or increase in TIE.  most of these dacs that are tested are all RCA support and do not have BNC and show very minute or no traces  that is  not in or far from the audible region, .... red herring and FUD!  just show how immune it has come.

10 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

For the detection of data, yes.

Jitter is a different thing.

 

You might want to say "jitter doesn't matter".  <shrug>

The impedance throughout the line affects it, though.

 

Again there are no evidence in any of the FFT plots from ASR that suggest this,  jitter in audio is a resolve item, have no idea why you are using this to support this FUD.

 

9 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

As an aside......  When they made an early change to AES/EBU digital audio.... why did they change the standard that the sender was a much higher impedance (250ohms ?) than the rest of the system..... to make the sender the same impedance (110) as the rest of the system?

 

 

to improve specs this is what you have to do,  spdif has had some upgrades like i said, impedance change is just one item as we move from 16/44 to 24/96 to 24/192   And guess what, i transmit 24/192 via RCA through S/pdif...no issues whatsoever!  especially less than 3-5m and well under 10m As the specs goes it supports RCA.

Edited February 4, 2024 by Addicted to music

[Neo]

1 minute ago, Addicted to music said:

have no idea why you are using this to support this FUD.

FUD?????

please explain?

Neo