Shielded vs Unshielded and <$500 interconnects

[NcA]

Hi All,

I am keen to get a good quality interconnect to go with a new purchase.

It would appear you have a choice of shielded vs Unshielded cables. In what instance would you choose an Unshielded cable and what would be the advantages?

Also keen for your experience and reccomendations on top quality RCA cables maxing our at $500? I currently use Chord Cobra and Chamelons.

Cheers

N

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Hi All,

I am keen to get a good quality interconnect to go with a new purchase.

It would appear you have a choice of shielded vs Unshielded cables. In what instance would you choose an Unshielded cable and what would be the advantages?

Also keen for your experience and reccomendations on top quality RCA cables maxing our at $500? I currently use Chord Cobra and Chamelons.

Cheers

N

There is no (sane) reason to choose unshielded interconnect cables.

[Guest Sime]

I'm using VDH "The Sea" out from my DAC, it retails at $499, but can be had for less. No issues here.

[NcA]

There is no (sane) reason to choose unshielded interconnect cables.

My thoughts as well. I was looking at the Aurealis website and he has more unshielded options than he does shielded ones. I thought maybe I was missing something and people had preferences for unshielded in particular circumstances

[Darren69]

Neil, for $350 to $500, you can pick up some awesome RCA IC's through the classifieds.

Also, I have recently become a bit of a Studio Connections fanbois, they are very good but have not seen many around 2nd hand. Am thinking they are around 750 to 1k new so would be around your budget second hand.

Keep the Cobras until you can compare to whatever you purchase/try out and then make a decision, because it can be easy to go backwards.

[NcA]

Neil, for $350 to $500, you can pick up some awesome RCA IC's through the classifieds.Also, I have recently become a bit of a Studio Connections fanbois, they are very good but have not seen many around 2nd hand. Am thinking they are around 750 to 1k new so would be around your budget second hand.Keep the Cobras until you can compare to whatever you purchase/try out and then make a decision, because it can be easy to go backwards.

Thanks for the tips Darren. I did see a cracking interconnect on classifieds last week went in minutes (as they tend to!)

Really intrigued to see what upgrading an interconnect can do.

[Darren69]

You will find a difference. Speaker cables make a bigger difference again , in my experience.

Welcome to the mad house.

[Guest Muon]

There is no (sane) reason to choose unshielded interconnect cables.

And no sane reason to discount unshielded, unless you have interference issues.

 

Edit: For those amateur snake wranglers that have a snake pit behind their gear, go shielded

Edited May 26, 2016 by Muon

[Wayne Elliott]

Hi All,

I am keen to get a good quality interconnect to go with a new purchase.

It would appear you have a choice of shielded vs Unshielded cables. In what instance would you choose an Unshielded cable and what would be the advantages?

Also keen for your experience and reccomendations on top quality RCA cables maxing our at $500? I currently use Chord Cobra and Chamelons.

Cheers

N

What components are you going to use them with?

 

If you are going from turntable then they will need to be shielded.

[Guest gmdb]

Turntable to Phono amp needs to be shielded.  Turntable to SUT needs to be shielded.  SUT to phono amp needs to be shielded.  Apart from that shielding is not essential unless you live in a high interference environment or run a snakes nest of cables as Muon said.  Shielding will raise capacitance and when poorly implemented will dull your top end. My advice would be to try both and reach your own conclusion.  There is no fundamental reason to choose a shielded cable when you don't really need it.  Most likely in situations where shielding isn't essential you will get a better result with an unshielded cable.  There really is no fundamental law about this.   

[NcA]

thanks for that answer. I do have a bit of a snakes nest!

Edited May 26, 2016 by NcA

[andyr]

Turntable to Phono amp needs to be shielded.  Turntable to SUT needs to be shielded.  SUT to phono amp needs to be shielded.  Apart from that shielding is not essential unless you live in a high interference environment or run a snakes nest of cables as Muon said.  Shielding will raise capacitance and when poorly implemented will dull your top end. My advice would be to try both and reach your own conclusion.  There is no fundamental reason to choose a shielded cable when you don't really need it.  Most likely in situations where shielding isn't essential you will get a better result with an unshielded cable.  There really is no fundamental law about this.   

 

Mmmm, that's your stated opinion. 

 

And I would say that you might have a point for, say, the interconnect between pre and power amps ... if your power amp is a valve jobbie.  Bcoz the output transformer of many valve power amps typically has an HF roll-off at 30 or 40KHz.  You need to have a valve power amp which uses a very expensive output trannie, for it to deliver 60 or 80KHz.

 

For ss power amps which typically have a frequency band up to - or beyond - 100KHz, shielded interconnects are essential.

 

 

Andy

[Guest Muon]

@@andyr

 

You don't need very expensive output trannies for 60 or 80KHz.

 

These Silk ones are not very expensive http://www.sacthailand.com/Transformer_Output.html

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

Measurements would be nice!

 

A quick look around finds most people commenting on cables are "subjective"...

 

This looks mostly at cheap cables, and finds that they are good enough - and that a fair few claims don't fly.

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/measurements-analogue-rca-interconnects.html

 

Note that shielded cables don't actually dull the high end of the audio frequency range and that crosstalk is better than that found in many components, even with the cheapest cable tested.

 

So, does anyone have other measurements to contradict this? I'd be interested to see them.

[andyr]

@@andyr

 

You don't need very expensive output trannies for 60 or 80KHz.

 

These Silk ones are not very expensive http://www.sacthailand.com/Transformer_Output.html

 

So - if they're so cheap - why are there tube amps that only have a 40 or 60KHz bandwidth - certainly far less than Hugh's AKSA/NAKSA ss amps, which I have?

 

Andy

Edited May 27, 2016 by andyr

[Guest Muon]

So - if they're so cheap - why are there tube amps that only have a 40 or 60KHz bandwidth - certainly far less than Hugh's AKSA/NAKSA amps, which I have?

 

Andy

So you want to compare apples to oranges, Andy.

 

This is what you are doing in comparing lesser tube amps transformers with Huge's SS amps.

 

It's like saying "This apple tastes nothing like an orange so it must be inferior!"

 

And if you think you can't get great sound out of a tube amp without having very wide bandwidth OPTs, then the error is in ya' knowledge base IMO.

[Guest Muon]

@@andyr

 

Yes, some amps will be very prone to pricking up high frequency interference via unshilded IC's, but many folk do not use these amps, so generalising on that point is a bit nit-picky

[andyr]

So you want to compare apples to oranges, Andy.

 

This is what you are doing in comparing lesser tube amps transformers with Huge's SS amps.

 

It's like saying "This apple tastes nothing like an orange so it must be inferior!"

 

And if you think you can't get great sound out of a tube amp without having very wide bandwidth OPTs, then the error is in ya' knowledge base IMO.

 

 

@@andyr

 

Yes, some amps will be very prone to pricking up high frequency interference via unshilded IC's, but many folk do not use these amps, so generalising on that point is a bit nit-picky

 

My comments come from this line of thought (nothing to do with the sound of tube amps vs. ss amps):

• If you have a low bandwidth amp then unshielded interconnects will not be a problem.
• If you have a high bandwidth amp then unshielded interconnects will be a problem - so you need to use shielded interconnects.
• So people who use unshielded interconnects with no problems are those who have low bandwidth amps.
• Tube amps can certainly be low bandwidth ... ss amps less likely to be.
• SS amps can have a much greater bandwidth than even the widest-bandwidth tube amps employing output transformers.  (I don't know what the bandwidth specs are for those rare breed of OTL tube amps.)

 

Andy

[Guest Muon]

@@andyr

 

Tube amps can also be wide-bandwidth, just that you left this out

 

You are assuming  that there will! be interference to pick up....why are you guaranteeing this? Also what is the magic number on high frequency where this issue comes into play IF it is an issue?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

My comments come from this line of thought (nothing to do with the sound of tube amps vs. ss amps):

• • If you have a low bandwidth amp then unshielded interconnects will not be a problem.

Incorrect. 50Hz hum can be an issue with unshielded interconnects. As can RF interference. However, LOW impedance terminations can mitigate these problems. In ALL cases, unshielded interconnects should NOT be used for audio systems.

[andyr]

You are assuming  that there will! be interference to pick up....why are you guaranteeing this?

 

Because even if you live well away from an airport (and its radar), there is all the wifi which surrounds us.

 

And 50Hz mains interference, as ZB has just pointed out.

 

Also what is the magic number on high frequency where this issue comes into play IF it is an issue?

 

C'mon, M - you know as well as I do that the answer is "43"! 

 

 

Andy

[andyr]

Incorrect. 50Hz hum can be an issue with unshielded interconnects. As can RF interference. However, LOW impedance terminations can mitigate these problems. In ALL cases, unshielded interconnects should NOT be used for audio systems.

 

Absolutely - I had forgotten mains.  Thank you!

 

 

Andy

[Guest Muon]

Because even if you live well away from an airport (and its radar), there is all the wifi which surrounds us.

 

And 50Hz mains interference, as ZB has just pointed out.

 

 

C'mon, M - you know as well as I do that the answer is "43"! 

 

 

Andy

50Hz is mains isn't it?

 

So unless you like your signal cables near mains power interference sources?

 

And while I have much respect for Trevor, I think from my own experience that this thing that unshielded cables should never be used in audio is incorrect.

 

It really depends on the system and how it is put together IMO.

 

Edit: typo

Edited May 27, 2016 by Muon

[andyr]

50Hz is mains isn't it?

 

So unless you like your signal cables near mains power interference sources?

 

And while I have much respect for Trevor, I think from my own experience that this thing that unshielded cables should never be used in audio is incorrect.

 

It really depends on the system and how it is put together IMO.

 

Edit: typo

 

Sure, M - and if you're running low bandwidth tube amps ... you will never have a problem!     Providing, of course, you keep your power cords away from your unshielded interconnects. 

 

 

Andy

[Guest Muon]

Sure, M - and if you're running low bandwidth tube amps ... you will never have a problem!     Providing, of course, you keep your power cords away from your unshielded interconnects. 

 

 

Andy

Now you are mixing the two things up, 50Hz is not high, very low actually 

 

Two different issues.

 

Anyway, this is going nowhere so out of this thread too