rkrasnoff Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Hi All I'm new to the site, but already learning a lot from it! I caught the HiFi bug recently, after uncovering my Dad's old system and vinyl in the garage. After doing some research, I've worked out that the system isn't anything special. It includes: Akai AP-D2 turntable (not working) Nikko 7075 receiver/amp (also, unfortunately, not working) OHM E2 bookshelf speakers (good condition, and will probably keep these until a good second hand pair comes along). I have quite varied music tastes, mostly indie/folk/electronica/hip hop. To give you an idea some of my most played artists are Rodriguez, War on Drugs, Tame Impala, Radiohead, Talking Heads, Biggie Smalls, Black Keys etc. I want to play a lot of my Dad's vinyl, which is mostly 70s blues, jazz and rock. I also want to play music through Spotify/MP3 The room I'm going to be using is a lounge room about 6m x 4m, with a large window (with shutters) on one of the shorter sections. Underneath the window is a sideboard which I'm planning to set the system up on. It's a wooden floor, with a rug and a couple couches. Unfortunately, for aesthetic reasons alerted to me by my girlfriend, I can't make any significant changes to the room. My budget for the system is about $3k without speakers, or $4k with speakers (if the right ones come along). I'd really like to set up a vintage system (as I said, aesthetics are important). I'd also like a system that sounds good at low volumes. In my very uninformed state I'm thinking about the following: Turntable – I am thinking either the Project 1xpression (with Ortofon silver cartridge, $1100 new) or the Project 2xperience (also with Ortofon silver cartridge, $1500 new), both from a dealer in Perth who I spent some time talking to the other week and was very helpful. I was leaning towards the 2xperience, for the ability to upgrade it later down the track. However, I've just seen this table http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/104349-fs-superb-refurbished-lp12-linn-sondek-turntable/?hl=perth – and am now considering that as an option (though it would likely blow my budget!). Amplifier – I'd like something with a phono stage built in. I've found a Sansui AU-555 online for $350. I've done a bit of reading and it seems to be a popular unit. It's only rated to 20wpc, but apparently it performs higher than that. Also, since I won't be listening at very high volumes, I thought that might be okay? An alternative (would need to stretch my budget a bit to get there) I found was a Marantz 2250 that a Perth dealer has listed for just under $1k – does that seem like a reasonable price? Is it worth the extra $650 from the Sansui? Speakers – Not really sure, to be totally honest. I thought maybe B&W 685, or something similar - I'm thinking bookshelf speakers would be best suited for the listening room. DAC – Have been looking at the Projec DAC Box E ($170 new), but must admit this is the component I've researched the least. I would love to hear from anyone who has any suggestions or advice - generally, or about any of the items above specifically. Although I've done a bit of reading over the last month, I'm still very green on all of this, especially (I think) when it comes to pairing different components. Thanks very much in advance for any thoughts!! Rowan
Luc Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Hi Rowan(that name is one of Tolkien's fav trees...just thought I'd let you know that) welcome to the site and good to see you giving some thought about how you'd like to go about setting a system up. I'm pretty sure you'll get more posts here and advice so I'll just say a couple of things. The 555? No. At that price you should go for the 555A or my pet series in the Sansui range and look for a AU-5900 or the two bigger ones from this range, the 6900(hard to find) and the 7900 which is somewhat easier to find on occasions. They have a more than adequate phone stage built in and at $600 to $850 range would do nicely for a vintage system, The 7900 is rated at 75w and it'll drive plenty of speakers in your proposed price range and system make-up. Can't speak for Marantz as they're a brand that is all over the place price wise and like Sansui they had a good period and a bad one and some research needs to be done. The TT is a subjective component as is the cartridge, leave it aside for the moment and concentrate on firstly, your speaker choice in tandem with your amp choice: Get some matching gear,some synergy happening there. You can do that on paper by reading the specs of each and see if one will drive the other properly. KaChing! You've bought or worked out roughly the big bits of the system, now you can look at a TT. Don't get too carried away with cartridge at this early stage, concentrate on a nice dependable unit. The Ortofun range of coloured named carts are a great stepping off point. Go the lowliest one to start. Your eager to play your Dad's records...they will probably have 20/30+ years of gunk/dirt/shite on-in them(if they've never been cleaned). They need to be cleaned, you need an RCM(did you see that coming?..lol) So that is why you should hold back for the moment on a midrange cart. Buy amp+speakers>then TT which might have a good Tone Arm and a reasonable cart, if not grab the lowly one to start off. The DAC..its your digital thingy, has nothing to do with your analogue playback(Vinyl! It's the best..OK I'm biased) so I'll let others chime in there. Concentrate on Speakers>Amp ....then head of after the other stuff. Don't limit yourself to Standmounts if you possibly can (taking into consideration the girlfriends advice.) slim floorstanders are out there...they get high WAF. 3
kelossus Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Agree with Luc, concentrate on the speakers first, then amp and everything else there after. Plenty of NS1000's pop up in Perth and I would hold out for a pair at good price <$1600. Flavour them with the best integrated amp you can afford. Edited June 9, 2016 by kelossus
kelossus Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Oh and buy everything second hand, saves you a lot of money and all the good gear seems to be in WA. 1
Jeddie Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 +1 speakers then amp. I have learnt this thru bitter experience. 1
Jventer Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Hi Welcome to SNA and all the best with the "bug" . You mention that you wish to have a dac. What will be feeding music to the dac? If you have a vinyl based system you need a turntable that is equipped with a needle/stylus and cartridge, which connect to a phono stage either external or in the amp, then an integrated amp or a pre and power amps which are connected to the speakers. If you would like to add CD's to this equation - just add a cdplayer. If you want to stream music or play music off the internet or a computer or a hard disk you will need something extra, being the dac. Please give us more info to assist you more. Edited June 10, 2016 by Jventer
rkrasnoff Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 Thanks very much everyone - really appreciate the advice. So, back to the drawing board - time to decide on the speakers. Luc - I had initially considered floorstanders, but a few things I read seemed to suggest that you get better value for money (in terms of sound quality) with stand-mounted. If I was to go with floorstanders, they would need to be relatively compact (and definitely wood-veneer). Is there any particular models you would recommend? Kelossus - I just had a look at the NS1000s, I need something a bit smaller and nicer-looking than that (a dictate that is out of my hands - so no offence intended!!). I've just trawled through the Classifieds section and found a few potential options - what do you think about the following? Spendor BCII - http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/105359-fs-spendor-bcii/?hl=perth Usher Mini Dancer 1 - http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/104684-fs-usher-mini-dancer-one/?hl=perth Open to any other suggestions! Thanks again all
rkrasnoff Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 By the way Luc, funny you should mention the "Rowan" tree - my Mum is Irish and apparently they have a Rowan tree there, so that's basically what I was named after! Jventer, I'm planning to get an integrated amp, with phono built-in (trying to minimise the number of components). I don't have a lot of CDs, so I think I will skip the CD player. In terms of digital music - I'd usually be playing from my laptop or a smartphone - so I was thinking of getting a DAC with USB input.
myPal Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Hello! My first tip would be to get something affordable that works together so you can immediately start enjoying the music. My second tip is that your room is an instrument. It is an extension of your loudspeakers. The biggest system performance gains are obtained by acoustically treating your room. More often than not, simple and cheap room treatment solutions work wonders. My third tip is that cables do matter. Everything from power, interconnects to loudspeaker cables do influence the system. My fourth tip is that the more sources you add, the more complex the system will become and then costs begin to go up exponentially. Start by keeping it simple and focus on the source component that will get the most playtime in your day-to-day life. It could be a tuner, CD player, or DAC. Remember, it remains true that analogue still rules over digital playback however, it will subjectively rule over you, your wallet and your time, first and foremost, before it magically decides to give you back it's organically holy grail. Finally, your solution outcome will be as good as your weakest link. This is a worthwhile hobby to get into as long as you can take the time to enjoy the music. Let the journey begin! Edited June 9, 2016 by myPal
Luc Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) @rkrasnoff I have purchased recently my long(-ish) term speakers and have for sale my old term speakers and these are slimline floorstanders which have high WAF(Wife Acceptance Factor). The sound is...well have a look at the ad and read the review there>>>>Silverline Preludes 2 New price too, not the one in the ad. PM me if your interested. Edited June 9, 2016 by Luc
rkrasnoff Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 Thanks myPal, that's good advice! Luc - I will have a think about your speakers and let you know. Do you have any idea what freight to Perth would be likely to cost? Thanks
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Agree with Luc, concentrate on the speakers first, then amp and everything else there after. Plenty of NS1000's pop up in Perth and I would hold out for a pair at good price <$1600. Flavour them with the best integrated amp you can afford. In a vinyl based system you need to concentrate on the source first but the speakers do come a pretty close second.
Guest Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 In a vinyl based system you need to concentrate on the source first but the speakers do come a pretty close second. And that rules out anything with an Ortofon Silver on it IMHO. The Silver is a cheap cart made for Pro-Ject that is worthy of a $40 retail price, not the ridiculous mount it is listed at in Australia by the importer.
rkrasnoff Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 Thanks, Ozcall. What would you recommend for a turntable between the $1 - 1.5k range? Do you have any experience with the Project 1Xpression / 2Xperience? 1
THOMO Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Well I can't agree about the NS1000 speakers. They are designed for studio use and have a presentation that will very often sound wrong in a domestic situation. Those Spendors are great speakers but perhaps better suited to classical/jazz/acoustic.Good at lowish volume though and quite strong bass. The Usher could be fine but will also show up any weak areas in your system -there would be more forgiving options. I have an old 1970s Toshiba SA-500 receiver you could have for not much.Very old school look [a bit vintage Macintosh looking ].Works perfectly and sounds very good with a nice phono stage -about 50 watts RMS.I could throw in a pair of Monitor Audio R252 speakers too for free [cabinets slightly rough but they work and sound fine].These things are not being used which is a shame-I would rather find a decent home for them. I also know where there is a superb resin plinth Toshiba direct drive turntable with an SME tonearm to match.That will see off any modern $1000 plus turntable. Edited June 10, 2016 by THOMO 2
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Thanks, Ozcall. What would you recommend for a turntable between the $1 - 1.5k range? Do you have any experience with the Project 1Xpression / 2Xperience?hi Rowan, on the iPad at the mo and hate typing on it.will reply tomorrow in more detail.
Guest Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Thanks, Ozcall. What would you recommend for a turntable between the $1 - 1.5k range? Do you have any experience with the Project 1Xpression / 2Xperience? I know you didn't ask me, but for what it's worth, all my experience with said Pro-Jects is less than favourable. Since you keep asking about Pro-Jects it seems you already have your mind made up. Much better by a considerable margin (and vastly more future upgradable) would be to buy new release Rega Planar 3, IMHO.
rkrasnoff Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 I haven't necessarily made my mind up, they were just the ones that were available and demo'd for me at the shop I went to. I gather the Planar 3 isn't widely available in Aus yet - do you know when it will be and what it's likely to cost?
hkc Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 I'm pretty sure they have them down at frank prowse hifi in Claremont.
hkc Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 The money you have lined out for a turntable opens up a lot of vintage or secondhand doors too. There is a lot of really excellent gear in your price range. Thorens, Linn, Pink Triangle, Denon, etc etc.
rkrasnoff Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 I think that's the RP3, not Planar 3 - @@johnmath specified the new release Planar 3, which only came out this year I think?
Guest Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 I gather the Planar 3 isn't widely available in Aus yet - do you know when it will be and what it's likely to cost? The Australian importer's website: http://www.synergyaudio.com/Rega/Turntables/Planar-3-Turntable/1153/productview.aspx Apparently the RRP is $1249 sans cartridge; lower prices are already online in Oz. Disclaimer - I have not seen one yet, but I expect it to address some of the previous RP3's shortcomings, especially the plastic turret RB303 tonearm which is replaced with a new RB330 tonearm on the Planar 3.
Batty Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 I have a 1995 Copland CSA14 Integrated amp for sale at the moment it has a very nice MM phono stage and is 60 watts per channel.
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