Proac 1SC - better late than never!

[Spukee]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who hunts around Ebay and the Private Classified sections daily - but after 5 years of hunting around for a Proac 1SC - I finally got my hands on one!  Although it does feel little bit bittersweet when you finally get that thing you've longed for so long...

 

Anyway, loving this speaker to bits - and I can definitely see what the fuss was about (5-10 years ago).  The 1SC  renders voices, strings and piano very well.  Not the best for bass-centric music - but does surprisingly well with a lot of music I didn't think it would do well on (even some rock).

 

For anyone that's heard the 1SC - would you think tube amplification is essential?  Or should I instead "invest" in a power amp?  I know there's room for growth if I replace my 80w Hybrid Unison Research amp - as I heard the Proac D2 through it, and it lacked the body an Arcam power amp musters.  Would the 1SC be as power hungry as a D2 however?

 

Is there such a thing as a Tube amp that has SS bass slam?  I think the bass is sufficient as it is, but I would hate to lose bass slam/speed if it is lost with tube amplification. 

 

 

Why am I looking for something else to buy?  Help me!

 

 

PS: Thanks to this wonderful forum and its passionate and friendly community.  Thank you for making me yearn for things I don't need and never previously wanted.

All advice appreciated :-).

[Jliang70]

I would suggest look at Naksa range of amps.  Having a few different valve amps and Naksa.   Naksa amp has a sonic signature very similar to a valve amp with the bass slam,  it is engaging to listen.

[Keith_W]

These are one of my favourites, too. If budget allows, consider a Cary CAD-805AE amplifier. The combination with ProAc is unbelievably sweet. 

[Spukee]

 

8 hours ago, Jliang70 said:

I would suggest look at Naksa range of amps.  Having a few different valve amps and Naksa.   Naksa amp has a sonic signature very similar to a valve amp with the bass slam,  it is engaging to listen.

Thanks, will keep a lookout! Anywhere to audition these?

8 hours ago, Keith_W said:

These are one of my favourites, too. If budget allows, consider a Cary CAD-805AE amplifier. The combination with ProAc is unbelievably sweet. 

Cheers Keith, would love a Cary, although the 805AE is definitely out of my budget.  Looking to dabble in tubes only at this point.

[LHH]

The 1SCs are wonderful speakers. The best I have heard them sounding was with a pair of VTL Tiny Triodes. From memory they were combined with a small REL sub (a Strata I think), and the source was a CEC TL-1 transport with an Enlightened Audio Design DSP-9000 Pro Series III DAC. I've listened to hundreds of systems (I used to work in the industry), but this combination has stayed with me. It was exquisite. 

 

With that said, I'd largely forget about bass slam with the 1SCs, it's not their strong point. Rather than pairing them with an amp that will compensate (to a small degree) for their weaknesses (something from Bel Canto, for example), I'd personally look at pairing them with a quality sub (like the REL mentioned above), and focussing on an amp that plays to their strengths (that glorious midrange). YMMV.

 

I believe the Manley Mahis are similar to the VTL tiny triodes. I'd see if you can have a listen to some of those.

[LHH]

Having said that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've just looked at the Manley site, and they have this to say about the Mahis:

 

"Our longtime love affair with the EL84 has never sounded tighter, faster, or deeper than it does in the MAHI. Larger B+ rail storage means control, impact, and slamming bass punch. "

 

http://www.manley.com/products/view/mahi

 

So maybe they'll give you everything you want.

[blybo]

Tube pre and SS power amp?

 

Many here love the Elektra combo but you can't see the tubes. If that's your preference, perhaps a Weston pre?

[Spukee]

9 hours ago, LHH said:

The 1SCs are wonderful speakers. The best I have heard them sounding was with a pair of VTL Tiny Triodes. From memory they were combined with a small REL sub (a Strata I think), and the source was a CEC TL-1 transport with an Enlightened Audio Design DSP-9000 Pro Series III DAC. I've listened to hundreds of systems (I used to work in the industry), but this combination has stayed with me. It was exquisite. 

 

With that said, I'd largely forget about bass slam with the 1SCs, it's not their strong point. Rather than pairing them with an amp that will compensate (to a small degree) for their weaknesses (something from Bel Canto, for example), I'd personally look at pairing them with a quality sub (like the REL mentioned above), and focussing on an amp that plays to their strengths (that glorious midrange). YMMV.

 

I believe the Manley Mahis are similar to the VTL tiny triodes. I'd see if you can have a listen to some of those.

Thanks LLH.  I'd like to avoid a sub as much as possible.  I played the idea of mixing a sub (albeit cheap) in my previous setup and I never got it to sound as together as I wanted.  I don't necessarily need slam - I just do not want to lose any more bass speed than what I have with the Hybrid.  I'll keep a lookout for REL subs though - that may have been my missing link.

6 hours ago, blybo said:

Tube pre and SS power amp?

 

Many here love the Elektra combo but you can't see the tubes. If that's your preference, perhaps a Weston pre?

Thanks blybo, I thought about this - but would like to keep it as simple as possible.  Makes sense though.  What's the Elektra combo?

[blybo]

Tube pre amp and Reference 250wpc power amp. Made in Melbourne by Arthur Rappos.

[Moonstone]

Hi Spukee,

congrats on your purchase.

We own a pair of 1SC for around 7 years or so and I can happily announce, they sound most musical of all the speakers we ever owned. They do have magic.....

Yes the bass can be a bit on the loose side of things. It is worth to try many different positions in your room, even play around with stands. Those speakers will let you hear differences, where you wouldn't expect differences at all. We found speakers stands up to 18kg each (such as Mission Stance sand filled) are most suitable, to our ears. 

I also was surprised to learn that they do make a big fuss when toeing in. To me, the sweet spot is reached when you are able to just see the inner side of the cabinets edge, meaning the left speaker points over your left shoulder, and the right speaker over your right shoulder. HT on the inside that is.

Those 1SC's are also very fussy when it comes to cabling, for us (after a long search, each time comparing) we finally ended up with Kimber cables. They play most clean and tight, with excellent fine detail and three dimensional staging, however with a slight forward presentation.  

The amp/CD combo we have chosen are LEEMA Stream and Pulse. For us, they play extremely quick/fast, have a excellent control of the bass, seem uncolored but still render the music with just a touch of warmth. 

Happy listening mate...

[Spukee]

Thanks Moonstone, great to hear from someone else who still appreciates the 1SC!  Funny I think most people have moved on already :-).

 

I have mine toe'd in quite agressively - I will try your advice and have the tweeter toe'd to my shoulder (rather than ear at the moment).  There was also some advice to have the tweeter slightly above ear height (ie. raise 60cm stands slightly higher). 

 

I've tried Kimber 8TC on another set of speakers, but thought it slowed the speakers down horribly (compared to Chord Silverscreens).  Maybe just bad synergy.  I'll keep a lookout for 8TCs again.

[alistairm]

Can't go wrong with the 1SC, or even the Tablettes... lots of Proac love in my house. 

[Moonstone]

Hi Spukee, 

moving on to what?

I know there are guys who bought Harbeth, I heard the P3ESR for myself, it is not doing it for me. All comes back to preferences I think and more importantly of what you feel sounds right.

I heard the ProAc D1, and despite being less colored, I prefer the 1SC.

However I haven't heard the latest DB1 from ProAc, nor have I heard the latest Tablette, the 10 model. It is an enclosed design.

You are right with the synergy observation, as I said the 1SC can be extremely revealing.

No one will argue that the 1SC isn't a very well sounding speaker, but do your homework and musical bliss might become yours....

Cheers mate

P.S.: The speaker cables in the pic were replaced with Kimber's!

 

Edited December 3, 2016 by Moonstone
...

[Spukee]

Thanks for the insight and comparison to the other speakers (D1, Tablette and P3ESR).  I have not had an opportunity to hear them but have heard good things about them.

 

Your setup looks great too - thanks for posting the pics!

 

I had low expectations on detail retrieval and transparency after reading a comparison vs the ML1.  Happy to be wrong.  I would love to hear an ML1 one day, but somehow imagine it to be quite similar to the Elac BS244s I have - where detail, speed and imaging are held above all.

[Moonstone]

Hi Spukee,

heard the ML1 years back, excellent speakers. They rock harder and play louder, more of the type of a studio monitor. As far my memory goes, they play even less colored than the 1SC.

The 1SC has something different to offer, it is a different sound, you either like or dislike. And there is some magic, if things come together, I haven't heard from any other speaker....

They can somehow bring life into an instrument, you don't only hear it, you can feel it, its in front of you,and sometimes within. Very spooky....

The great thing is there are speakers for everyone I believe, we share a great hobby!

Happy listening,

cheers moonstone 

Edited December 3, 2016 by Moonstone

[Moonstone]

Hi, 

does anyone know where Tyler's latest evolution of the Response and Tablette series (ProAc DB1 and Tablette 10) might be on display?

Cheers Mikk

[MultiplexMan]

Definitely have not moved on - I've simply stopped (returned) with a pair of ProAc TR8.  

 

I had the 1SC and they sang when combined with a Weston Acoustic EL34 Tempest.  They also did surprisingly well when paired with an Acurus DIA100.  The Acurus was a hot tip from SNA...

 

Enjoy the ProAc sound...

[Moonstone]

MM,

TR 8 or TR 8 sign?

Cheers

[MultiplexMan]

TR8

 

I had the TR8 S for a while but actually prefer the TR8.

[Moonstone]

Hi MM,

wow that is intersting. What made you prefer the standard  TR 8 over the TR 8 s?

I would love to listen to the latest Tablette, the no. 10. It is a closed design, it has been a while for ProAc coming up with that enclosed Tablette. I wonder whether Tylor is going back on that classic BBC  path, which many audio lovers regard as the holy grail.....

Regards

[Moonstone]

Here the first publication of the ProAc Tablette 10:

 

https://music-room.com/magazine/reviews/equipment-reviews/proac-tablette-10

 

Merry X-mas to all of ya,

Mikk

[Mach3]

I'm running the old ProAc 1SC with a Primaluna Dialogue Premium amp 8x EL34 and 6x 12AU7.

Which simply sound absolutely stunning with vocals.

 

[Guest Muon N']

On 03/12/2016 at 9:14 PM, Spukee said:

Thanks for the insight and comparison to the other speakers (D1, Tablette and P3ESR).  I have not had an opportunity to hear them but have heard good things about them.

 

Your setup looks great too - thanks for posting the pics!

 

I had low expectations on detail retrieval and transparency after reading a comparison vs the ML1.  Happy to be wrong.  I would love to hear an ML1 one day, but somehow imagine it to be quite similar to the Elac BS244s I have - where detail, speed and imaging are held above all.

ML-1's do a fast low bass (for size) and the mid range is very very nice, they do more or less depending on the rest of the chain, they can sound light weight, OR full, weighty and rich, depending on the source and amplification.

 

The Proacs are up there and very good, but when I heard both in the same system I preferred the ML-1's but there wasn't a great deal in it. So it will depend on what you prefer IMO.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Muon N'

[maximus]

I had a pair I sold 10 years ago, regretted it, but the better the amplification the better they sound.

I heard them with an Accuphase integrated owned by the chap who bought them, mind boggling good, more involving than many uber setups I've heard.

It's a great combination of mids and top end that you don't want to turn off. There's stacks of speakers out there that sound bigger and louder, but the 1SC's have got that character and charm that just draws you in.

 

 

[Spukee]

I'm still holding onto my 1sc and still looking out for a high powered amp to pair them with :-). Or an Accuphase Integrated :-).