Why ? Why? Why?

[GAM]

Why I have to place my left speaker asymmetrical away from my sitting position to have the centre focus and imaging.I am always struggling to find out if speaker has to be pushed to side or back to the front wall to get the image center as the image is always tilting to left side .

If I mange to push the lt speaker further back to get the vocals into the center then most of the time I loose the emotion and depth from vocals,they become lean,pale with no texture.

Even if I do manage to place speakers some how by LUCK in a position where vocal image is central ,when I shift my head slightly to the left side I can feel the sound layer is close to my ears and when I slightly angle my head to the right side the image is further away from my ears tightly focused on rt side close to the front wall.

So the whole sound image is angled and distorted.

And even when I do manage to have the vocals in the center and I close my eyes and I can feel the --X--- of vocals in the centre where two sound fields of each speakers are crossing and it's not a central one ROUND of sound mass.

It's all weird .

I am really over it .

The more time I have over Christmas holidays the more crazy and frustrated I am going .

There is no science which works in my room.

Once KeithW came to my house and he straightaway said why soundstage is tilted toward left side and that was when my system was tweaked to its best.

I am just over it .

Thanks for listening.

I just wanted my hobby friends to know what I am going through.

Cheers

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[POV]

Could you post some photos of your setup and room?

[betty boop]

we've been here before havent me...

 

I think have changed components, changed speakers, even got ears tested ? 

 

so mustbe some room related issue ? 

 

have you tried re orientating the whole system  the opposite way 9ie 180deg around from where it is) to see if imaging swings the other way ?

 

or re orientating the system 90 degrees ? 

 

what is the current state of play as to speakers and the room ?

[Darren69]

Yes, a few room pics would be great Mohammed.

[Keith_W]

Mohammed, did you move the speakers to where I suggested you move them? If you want, I am free until New Year's and I can come over (this time with a WORKING measurement setup!) and take some sweeps. 

[Darren69]

@Keith_W  you're a gentleman, there you go Mohammed!

 

Would still be interesting to see/hear how this unfolds as I cant' say I have heard of this phenomena.

[Keith_W]

GAM, like I mentioned the last time I saw you, I agree that the soundstage is pulled to the left. I am not sure if it is a room issue or an equipment issue. Like I said, do not assume that your equipment is working correctly. There are some diagnostics you could try at home, e.g.: 

 

- Swap cables on your amplifier so that left amp output goes to the right speaker and vice-versa. If the soundstage is still pulled to the left, then all the upstream electronics are OK. It is either a speaker or a room issue. 

- Swap your speakers left for right. If the soundstage is still pulled to the left, then your speakers are OK and it's a room issue. 

 

IF it is a room issue, then the only solution would be to place those speakers carefully. You can do it on principle, or by ear, but the best way is to take some sweeps. Like I also said when I was there, those are beautiful speakers and in a beautiful room. It SHOULD work! 

[GAM]

Shall post some pics soon.@Keith_W I tired AGAIN once you asked me .
The speakers do end up coming close to sitting position as that's the only time the sound is clear,intimate,deep and it has an emotion to it.
But I Feel there is massive commotion /buzz of sound waves all around that little circle where I and speakers are placed and even in that little circle the reflections are distorting the way sound image is projected.
That's my analysis.



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[Nigel]

Mate, when one side is different to the other, some simple "changing sides" will identify the culprit.

 More tricky is when one speaker has one of its drivers outta phase. 

 

[GAM]

It's the third pair of speakers in this room.Its always there.
Just to different extent with different speakers.
The better the speakers are going the bigger the problem.


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[Telecine]

What are the room dimensions and layout?

[goldiver]

Firstly, we've all been there! And in my experience a mere Christmas holiday period can be too small a time-frame to get it right!

 

I'm thinking uneven wall dimensions, or ceiling dimensions; or perhaps the sidewalls have different construction materials. Is there an acoustic 'suck-out' of some sort (window, door)? Also check the area behind your listening position for anything disrupting soundwaves bouncing back from the rear.

 

I'd start by taking the room out of the equation as much as possible by using the Rule Of Thirds set-up (option three) from the website linked below.

 

http://noaudiophile.com/speakercalc/

 

 

[GAM]

Some smart [emoji851] comments coming .
Just at dinner at the moment.
Will come back soon.


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[GAM]

@goldiver
Some smart questions you have raised.
Room was built later add on in alfresco area.
There is very likely problem of
1- asymmetric dimensions? Though not visible.
2-sloping asymmetrically of floor on the left side with left speaker slightly standing angled to the left side and not at 90 degree to the floor.
The front , back and right wall has insulation but left wall hasn't got.
But it's equal size windows glass on both right and left wall.
Last night I was playing with the position of speakers and I pushed right speakers SLIGHTLY away from sitting position in comparison to my left speaker and SURPRISINGLY the right speaker VANISHED. The most surprising thing happened I could only hear from the left speaker .I thought may be the SC got loose from right speaker but no,the cables were connected but the sound from right cable was being CANCELED? Or ? .
When I moved my head closer I could hear it but on my normal sitting position no sound from right speaker and the whole sound stage was focused on left.
It was so strange the speaker in front of me making normal sound but not reaching my ears.
Pics attached.


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[betty boop]

Personally and said this before, having speakers so close like head phones is going to limit the ability of you speakers imaging and creating sound image in the room. Ie will be more in head than in room

 

also re room construction is it an add on ie is there solid brick and then lighter material in the room other walls will also explain why possibly skewed ?

[eagle]

Hey Gam, know what you are going through as I have similar problems in my room and is the RHS too.

It can really play on your mind to the point that listening to music is not as enjoyable because your totally distracted by the imbalance.

i have different speakers and amplification to you and know it's a room issue too or I'm going deaf in one ear.

 

Some of the things that have helped me include:

1) Pushing the dominant speaker (LHS) back towards the front wall.

2) Changing toe in on the RHS so it is more outward then the LHS.

3) Adjusting channel balance if you have that as an option.

 

I get why you are sitting so close to try and remove the effect the room is having on your speakers but agree with Al, just looks too close to me. Maybe start fresh and put both speakers against your front wall, have a friend sit in your listening chair and the gradually move one speaker at a time until you get the right balance.

[Luc]

Good grief, those speakers are almost past the point of nearfield listening position surely?

[rantan]

  On 28/12/2016 at 1:19 AM, Luc said:

Good grief, those speakers are almost past the point of nearfield listening position surely?

Expand  

 

That is exactly what I thought when I looked at the photos.

 

I cannot even imagine having that system set up the way it is and I am not surprised the OP is having problems. I am not ,in any way, making a judgement here and ultimately it's none of my business but I am surprised it sounds as good as it ( apparently ) does

 

Good luck with it

[sir sanders zingmore]

The issue is clearly that there are 4 cable lifters on the left and only 3 on the right 

[Rob181]

And so you should be...

[Telecine]

I am going to give you the same advice that I provided back in May when you supplied your room dimensions. I suspect that you haven't tried this because your speakers are in exactly the same position as they were then.

 

You need to apply some science in how you place your speakers. Using the Cardas method (my preference) yields:

Head to Main Wall 3.01

Speaker From Main Wall 1.61

Speaker from Side Wall 0.99

Distance between the speakers 1.61

You can try various methods using this calculator:

http://noaudiophile.com/speakercalc/

 

No speakers are going to sound any good until you sort out speaker placement. If you still have problems after that, some further room treatment is probably warranted.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Telecine

[goldiver]

Yes, that is near-field all right! That's a situation where the slightest head movement will skew the image. Um, I'd definitely change your set-up (as Telecine already recommended). If anything, move speakers closer to the front wall as well as your listening position. (The website I linked for you earlier has a dimensions calculator to help).

[Guest scumbag]

Once you have positioned the speakers as suggested above, if the issue still bothers you then a farfield gated response of the left and right speakers would be needed to first identify if and where the balance occurs of the frequency range of the early sound. Then use  REW to measure the room response is each speaker including reflections. If i were a betting man id say that this is all to do with standing waves in the room and REW will clearly show this . Bass traps will be the best way to alleviate that issue. At least by measuring you have some quantifiable information on what is really happening. 

[rantan]

 

As @goldiver and @Telecine have correctly said, the entire manner in which this has been set up is simply wrong. The best pan would be to start again with a clean slate and position the speakers so they can actually do what they were designed for

With that said, I absolutely understand domestic and logistic constraints but if you want improvement the current situation should not remain

[GAM]

I must say .
There are very good suggestion.
I feel I need to have GTG.
May be I don't trust my ears ?
I need some expert ears .
I have had a chance where differently SNA members came to my place and I was amazed at the maturity and skill of listening.
It's just frustrating at times when my mind is always analyzing my system and no music is enjoyable .
I shall try different suggestions.
Great support,really appreciate that.


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