Why ? Why? Why?

[Keith_W]

Well there you go GAM They are all saying the same thing that I said!  

[GAM]

Let's do it then@Keith_W @scumbag
I could partly understand what scumbag said.
Did you understand that@Keith_W
Could we try that.
Are you free tomorrow?


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[Guest scumbag]

2 hours ago, rantan said:

 

As @goldiver and @Telecine have correctly said, the entire manner in which this has been set up is simply wrong. The best pan would be to start again with a clean slate and position the speakers so they can actually do what they were designed for

With that said, I absolutely understand domestic and logistic constraints but if you want improvement the current situation should not remain

I guess the practical implication of the near-field position is that the primary sound is higher in volume in comparison to the subsequent sound waves which would in some ways alleviate the issue in the room. Having heard the speakers in question and seen how they were positioned for best effect, I can say they were not intended for near field or even mid field listening!

[bzr]

Had those bass traps many moons ago. Gave one to my dog & the other 3 to a bloke at the tip. true story.

[bzr]

Try putting the distance between the speakers at 75%, then your ears from each speaker should be 100% from tweeters, can go to 80%. So tweeter to tweeter is say 2m add 20-25% equal distance from your ears to the tweeters, around 2.4m. The distance from the back wall will be how much interaction you want with your room & whether the speakers are ported or not. Remember, if you move your speakers outside of the above mentioned distance your listening chair will need to be moved too. Just another starting point from someone that isn't too enamored with the third turd third rule.

[Darren69]

Yes, a lot of good advice.

 

From what I know, as mentioned, those bass traps are taking up too much space and should be used for your kids to ride down a grassy slope somewhere. I would forget about any sort of bass related room treatment as there is simply not enough room. Chuck them out of the room to give yourself more wriggle room.

 

Me- I would put the speakers to the back corners each side of the screen and them slowly bring them out to taste. Maybe think of some first point reflection treatment after that.

 

Failing all that, your speakers are clearly unsuitable and you need to sell them to me.

[GAM]

@Darren69[emoji106][emoji106]
I can sell those speakers if you are interested.
Let me know if you are.
Thanks


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[Darren69]

19 minutes ago, GAM said:

@Darren69
I can sell those speakers if you are interested.
Let me know if you are.
Thanks


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Well that backfired on me dinnit? haha!!

[GAM]

Hahhaha@Darren69
Just in good spirits.
Cheers


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[Telecine]

52 minutes ago, GAM said:

Hahhaha@Darren69
Just in good spirits.
Cheers


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Apparently, they have a terrible imaging problem, so I will give you $1 for them. The upside is that I won't charge you to haul them away, so count yourself lucky  

Edited December 28, 2016 by Telecine

[rantan]

Just now, Telecine said:

 

Apparently, they have so terrible imaging problem, so I will give you $1 for them. The upside is that I won't charge you to haul them away, so count yourself lucky  

 

You can reast easily mate,knowing full well that your compassion and humanity are intact and inviolate

[GAM]

I know it's a hot day.
Stay [emoji41].
Appreciate your help guys.
I will let you know when I need your 1$.


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[Tony M]

When I first got into hifi in the early 70's, most people seemed to plonk their speakers against the wall with the electronics in between.  This was partly a result of not knowing any better, but also due in many cases to space constraints.  At the time I also recall many retailers demonstrating speakers in a similar configuration.

 

Ignorance is bliss and we enjoyed the music in our blissful ignorance.  As long as LZ etc were loud enough, everything was good.  The speakers amps etc we were using were inferior to your beautiful gear by orders of magnitude, but we didn't need to listen at 1.3 metres to get satisfaction.

 

As others have said, I'd love to just put the speakers close to the wall equidistant to the sitting position to get a sort of baseline to play with from there.  Of course the sound won't be 100% ideal, but, if you listen to a range of music and if nothing sounds halfway good, I suspect something, somewhere is very wrong.

 

These aren't headphones and they won't deliver in that role.  But I'm sure someone will sort it all out soon and I'll be intrigued to hear the outcome.

[Luc]

You could of course lay them on their side under the big screen and be the proud owner of a really really scary soundbar sound system.

 

Could work! Oh the reflections though...to die for!

[Darren69]

13 minutes ago, Tony M said:

These aren't headphones and they won't deliver in that role.  But I'm sure someone will sort it all out soon and I'll be intrigued to hear the outcome.

 

Yes, top notch gear there for sure!

 

Methinks it will be sounding very special in no time.

[Atjan]

It would actually be a bit surprising if side reflections are the culprit. The config of the mids and tweeter is typically employed to minimize reflections from the side walls when orientated like this.
Moving the speakers closer to the front wall will not affect imaging, only bass response, so you can do that without worries about this problem (imaging).

At this point, without having heard the set-up, I suspect an equipment issue may be to blame. It will be best to rule that out first by swapping cables, source, amps and polarity with the speakers in a perfect triangle set-up.

If you don't get a solution there, measuring speaker response at 1m should show up any other issues. If the speaker output is even, the room is your next possible problem.

[POV]

Lots of good advice here and seems like you are going to get some help in the situation from keith which is awesome.

 

My 2c:

 

I would be stripping the entire system down to components and cables and removing everything including room treatments.  Then I'd get some of THIS from Jaycar and clean all analogue terminals (RCA, COAX, SPEAKERS) and re-terminate all speaker cabling with new bananas or whatever you use.  ALso do an inspection of your analogue cabling and make sure all in good order and no issues there.

 

Then bring back speakers and place about 600mm out from back wall in a triangle with your seating position.  Make sure at least 1000mm in from side walls.  Then bring in the most simple signal path you can (eg cdp and integrated) with your equipment.  Hook up and start working with speaker positioning form there.  Room treatment are the icing not the flour.

 

See if you can get a solid centre image in this way then start bringing equipment back in.

 

My experience with the big Dynaudios is they need a LOT of breathing space to sing.  It maybe that your room just doesn't have the space for them and you would be better off selling for a smaller floorstander and I don't think you should discount this.  If wanting to test then is there a bigger room in the house where can bring them out into open and test??

 

Good luck and hopefully Keith and crew can help you out.

[rantan]

 

@Drew

 

Great post mate, best of the thread.

[GAM]

Great advice@Drew ,@Atjan
I have tried putting back the speaker.
That doesn't change much only that you get a veil over the sound.
Changing equipment and swapping cables has been done so many times.
And like I said it's the third pair of speakers so it's not the speakers.
The bass traps have definitely taken away the digital edges and make the sound scene bit more dark.
Thanks for excellent advise.
I will update if something works


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[rabidlistener]

Get an amp with a balance control - problem solved!!

 

Mike

[bzr]

6 hours ago, rabidlistener said:

Get an amp with a balance control - problem solved!!

 

Mike

Does this work with one dodgy ear?

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

15 minutes ago, bzr said:

Does this work with one dodgy ear?

Having a dodgy ear does not in itself cause you to lose the advantages of stereo. You can hear the advantages of stereo when being completely deaf in one ear, as you can find out by simple use of a mono button on an amp, a well setup system around it, and a REALLY GOOD earplug. Move the speakers to bad positions, or switch between stereo and mono, and you will still hear the difference quite easily. If you have some other hearing problems - severe loss at certain frequencies, bad tinnitus, loss within the range of spoken voice, then switching to mono can help.

There are other tricks for use with surround systems, fundamentally, running the centre speaker loud and everything else very low can help. My partner has hearing damage, and can't hear at all well with modern surround movies at the cinema, because the surround element causes confusion.

[Darren69]

46 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

Having a dodgy ear does not in itself cause you to lose the advantages of stereo. You can hear the advantages of stereo when being completely deaf in one ear, as you can find out by simple use of a mono button on an amp, a well setup system around it, and a REALLY GOOD earplug. Move the speakers to bad positions, or switch between stereo and mono, and you will still hear the difference quite easily. If you have some other hearing problems - severe loss at certain frequencies, bad tinnitus, loss within the range of spoken voice, then switching to mono can help.

There are other tricks for use with surround systems, fundamentally, running the centre speaker loud and everything else very low can help. My partner has hearing damage, and can't hear at all well with modern surround movies at the cinema, because the surround element causes confusion.

 

Good post and it's quite rare for both people to be into hi fi so I guess the one who is should set their rig up so it sounds good to them, IMO.

 

Sorry to sound selfish but hey, it isn't a rehearsal.

[THOMO]

I agree that using a preamp with a balance control should be the first thing to try.

Lop -sided sounding rooms are very common.If that does not correct the problem then using speakers with a narrower  dispersion pattern might be worth trying.

 

[Keith_W]

I don't agree with the recommendation for a preamp with balance controls as the first thing to try. THE first thing to try is to make sure the electronics upstream are working fine. If there is a channel imbalance in the electronics (easily diagnosed by swapping cables left to right), then find out which component it is, and get that fixed. Once that is ruled out, it will be a problem with either the speaker, or the room. If it is a problem with the speakers (diagnosed by swapping them left to right), then getting it fixed may be a bit of an issue. If it is a problem with the room, then try repositioning the speakers. These things cost nothing, and should be attempted first before buying more equipment. IF after all that has failed, then buy a preamp with balance control.