qwerter Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 What is best for a dedicated sound room? Building a full brick house with suspended slabs.
georgehifi Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Quote Building a full brick house with suspended slabs. If you going for the whole hog. Yes full brick, cement slab floor, with a cathedral ceiling, and uneven room lenght width dimensions, no same or multiples of. short walls behind the speakers for some loading, and no wall between them (in other words a walk through) for as far as you can get, this will give you the deepest sound stage, equipment racks off to the side or behind, never between. Edited February 10, 2017 by georgehifi 3
Darren69 Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) George, doesn't a stud wall with Gyprock treat bass quite well? Or does it not work if the studs are against brick? @qwerter congrats on the new house mate!! Edited February 10, 2017 by Darren69 1
Soundscape Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 I think gyprock would work well as a membrane trap, with insulation behind it for damping.I am puzzled about not having rack in between speakers. Isn't there commonly a null in this area, which would reduce vibrations affecting the gear. Whereas having gear on the front wall is not good in this respect because of the high sound pressure there. 1
Guest Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) @almikel The stud plaster wall is light construction, bass goes straight through. 2 layers of plaster starts to "sure up" the wall so more of the bass is kept in thus reflecting about. Solid brick walls keep most of the full frequency response in the room causing problems with the high energy bass reflecting about in the listening area (very long tone decay times), thus necessitating the need to re introduce traps and other treatments, which could be a plaster stud wall that is heavily damped or mass loading using other sorts of very heavy membrane such as lead lined vinyl (which works) diffusers and absorbers The more solid the room, the more reflections and echo plus attenuation and nulls, less solid, lesser the symptoms, but bass and high energy SPL is allowed to escape to annoy others within the dwelling or neighbours Concrete room with damped internal structure seems to give the best of both Recently completed a similar lounge build, solid concrete with internal structure, was a big job. All things mentioned above, mass loaded membrane, bass trap bulkhead, double plaster damped walls all appear in the photo of the concrete lounge below. Has decay times of less than 20ms down to 30hz and sounds amazing for bass clarity. Fluke really. Edited February 10, 2017 by Guest change the photo
Guest Peter the Greek Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Can you share a floor plan? Do you want to sound proofing or better acoustics or both?
Darren69 Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Dave O))) said: I think gyprock would work well as a membrane trap, with insulation behind it for damping. I am puzzled about not having rack in between speakers. Isn't there commonly a null in this area, which would reduce vibrations affecting the gear. Whereas having gear on the front wall is not good in this respect because of the high sound pressure there. Apparently having the components/rack between the speakers is not ideal, even though 99% of us do it. The speakers should sit on their own with the rack somewhere along a side wall or even in another room, to prevent soundwaves bouncing back at them from the rack. I have never tried it, it would cost me a mint in new cables. It's why you often see just monoblocks sitting between the speakers, down low on the floor. When I make my new rack, I am incorporating polymax into the ends of it as diffusion against the speaker sound waves and some little computer fans on the monoblocks to prevent too much heat build up. 1
Darren69 Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, 125dBmonster said: Are you playing peekaboo with your subs again? 1
Guest Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Darren69 said: Are you playing peekaboo with your subs again? Silk and satin draped over the sub boxes calms and damps higher frequency reflections within the stereo sound plane, which the subs sit in. "peak a boo" Exidos 18's Originally covered the 220 litre silver hammer tone boxes as they are not pretty, terrible actually but was quite taken as to the effects of the covers, so, they stayed Edited February 10, 2017 by Guest
Jventer Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 7 hours ago, qwerter said: What is best for a dedicated sound room? Building a full brick house with suspended slabs. I dont have a definite answer. I so far have really found what @svenr has posted on the forum interesting and informative. I am now reading as much as I can on the topic. Budget? Looks, practical issues all play a role. This is an interesting article: http://www.acousticfields.com/ode-to-the-dedicated-listening-room/ 2
qwerter Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said: Can you share a floor plan? Do you want to sound proofing or better acoustics or both? I think both, but better acoustics first.
qwerter Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jventer said: I dont have a definite answer. I so far have really found what @svenr has posted on the forum interesting and informative. I am now reading as much as I can on the topic. Budget? Looks, practical issues all play a role. This is an interesting article: http://www.acousticfields.com/ode-to-the-dedicated-listening-room/ Thank you.
qwerter Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Darren69 said: @qwerter congrats on the new house mate!! Thanks!
georgehifi Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Darren69 said: George, doesn't a stud wall with Gyprock treat bass quite well? Or does it not work if the studs are against brick? @qwerter congrats on the new house mate!! A stud wall no matter how well damped will vibrate in unison at some/certain bass FR and will muddy the bass at those frequencies, a brick wall won't, it'll behave like the cement slab floor. But a brick wall like the cement slab floor needs to be softened as well with hangings to be anti reflective in the mids and highs. Speaker manufacturers wouldn't strive for the most inert speaker enclosures they can for the cost. Tap a Wilson Alexander or Alexia it's like taping a cement enclosure. Cheers george Edited February 11, 2017 by georgehifi 2
Mr 57 Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) Just having a look at the suggested room ratio 1: 1.14:1.39 Makes for fairly small room, with a 2.7 ceiling, room size calculates out to 3.078 x 3.753. Had previously thought ratio 3:5:8 was golden ratio....you live and learn, we are also about to engage on a new build, including a dedicated music room, not for movies. Wanting to also use the studio type perforated plywood on the walls....trying to get a 60's looking Frank Lloyd Wright thing happening. Carpet is said also to be the choice, because of early reflections, but because of humidity etc here on the mid north coast NSW, I will dare to try timber look ceramic floor tiles with carefully placed floor rugs. I think also the type of speaker used would also play on the whole reverberation/reflection thing, I am hoping that the ESL's will be a little better behaved, ie, said not to excite the side wall reflections. I did build previously a massive audio/home theatre room of 3m x 5m x 8m. Concrete slab, Hebel Power Panels on both sides of an insulated 75mm pine frame. So all in all a real big attempt....but just too big (for me) great when we had lots of visitors to watch the 1.8 x 3 screen, but this time something a little more intimate. But great to see a few of our learned colleagues chiming in with their advise....I watch and will contribute as time goes by. We are still architect stage, with land in hand and house sold....so it's all positive ! Edited February 11, 2017 by Mr 57 could not finish ....stopped at Carpe.... 2
georgehifi Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 And these on the short wall behind the speakers in my first post. Good price for 40 of them https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sydney-city/home-theatre-systems/40-pcs-studio-wedge-acoustic-foam-30-x-30cm/1138705341 Cheers George 1
joz Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, Mr 57 said: Just having a look at the suggested room ratio 1: 1.14:1.39 Makes for fairly small room, with a 2.7 ceiling, room size calculates out to 3.078 x 3.753. Had previously thought ratio 3:5:8 was golden ratio....you live and learn, we are also about to engage on a new build, including a dedicated music room, not for movies. Wanting to also use the studio type perforated plywood on the walls....trying to get a 60's looking Frank Lloyd Wright thing happening. Carpe Of topic but Frank was known from the late 1800's ,here is his famous waterfall house from 1937 3
Mr 57 Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 My wife and I do love FLW type building/designs....our lounge will be as close as dang to this....very FLW Lounge, not Audio room but shows a strong 60's feel. 5
Mr 57 Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Thanks John we are super excited about the whole project....
Guest Peter the Greek Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 4 hours ago, qwerter said: I think both, but better acoustics first. They're both almost mutually exclusive. Lightweight wall construction is typically "good" for bass, but rubbish for soundproofing. If you want it properly soundproof, its quite involved. Start by reading the articles here Soundproofed rooms are bloody awesome, its hard to describe until you've experienced it. My advice, do this and then deal with the acoustic issues it'll present later. All rooms benefit from acoustic treatments, regardless of how they're built and the solutions are typically the same i.e. a light weight wall v a concrete box, just the concrete box will have more of them to deal with. My advice - you may as well go for the benefits of soundproofing and deal with the bass/acoustic issues later.
Guest Peter the Greek Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 3 hours ago, georgehifi said: a brick wall won't, it'll behave like the cement slab floor. Bass will still flank straight through concrete/brick, unless its really, really massive. Nothing beats an isolated structure, floor room
AccuTidal Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, Peter the Greek said: If you want it properly soundproof, its quite involved. Start by reading the articles here Thank You for this! I too in the process of building my very own audio unit, a granny flat that is tailoring purely for 2 channels audio, which is away from the main building. It will be 8.35m x 6.3m x 3.2m with double bricks, and 70mm air void cavity. Slap will be 100mm thickness with double steel re-inforced concrete at 42Mpa. I look forward to get this dressed up for audio under budget. I have previously converted an unused cluttering 6mx6m shed into a temporary little audio refuge....! I used Gryprock sheetings with R4 insulations between the outer shell (colour-bond cladding) and inner walls (gryprock). As for ceiling, I used Polystyrenes' sheeting. The whole room was carpeted all four walls. Have had a few members here visiting since........! Here is the post date back in 2013. Edited February 12, 2017 by Chanh typo 3
Guest Peter the Greek Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Thank You for this! I too in the process of building my very own audio unit, a granny flat that is tailoring purely for 2 channels audio, which is away from the main building. It will be 8.35m x 6.3m x 3.2m with double bricks, and 70mm air void cavity. Slap will be 100mm thickness with double steel re-inforced concrete at 42Mpa. I look forward to get this dressed up for audio with a budget of $100k. I have previously converted an unused cluttering 6mx6m shed into a temporary little audio refuge....! I used Gryprock sheetings with R4 insulations between the outer shell (colour-bond cladding) and inner walls (gryprock). As for ceiling, I used Polystyrenes' sheeting. The whole room was carpeted all four walls. Have had a few members here visiting since........! Here is the post date back in 2013. [emoji3] You probably dont need to go to such extremes on the structural side. You just need the sheeting isolated and 2 x layer of board with green glue. Built it simpler and put the money saved into quality hvac (hard to get right for sound proofing) etc. I think I remember that room ( sorry link isnt working). Did it pick up an award? LWA? Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
AccuTidal Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter the Greek said: You probably dont need to go to such extremes on the structural side. You just need the sheeting isolated and 2 x layer of board with green glue. Built it simpler and put the money saved into quality hvac (hard to get right for sound proofing) etc. I think I remember that room ( sorry link isnt working). Did it pick up an award? LWA? Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Whoa...! You are full of acronym.. Thank God the link did not work for you. I was not intending to showing off..., but sharing.There is no need for the mocking w.r.t award or LWA...!? Edited February 11, 2017 by Chanh
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