DOES YOUR POWER CORD COMPLY?

[Lance B]

Well, I need to eat my words. I just purchased some Isotek EV03 Intium power cables for my Marantz SA14 S1 SE SACD player and my Plinius 9200 amplifier. Part of the reason for the purchase was that the power cord for the amp was just a little loose into the back of the amp and I wanted something that was tight with a good connection. I purchased the cheapest in the Isotek range which is the EV03's @$99.00 each as my belief that 2 square mm of cable would be more than adequate for power delivery, but was more than interested in the better quality plug at the amp end so that it was a good and tight fit into the amp. Well, I am gobsmacked and I still can't believe the difference the cables have made. Bass is much better, lower tighter more defined, imaging and sound stage is also much better. My post above shows that I was skeptical about power cords other than they should have enough cross sectional area for enough current delivery and have a good connection. Maybe the very slightly loose connection to the amp was making more of an effect then I thought possible. However, I am not so sure it was just purely the connection that would have made such a difference as it wasn't really that loose. I just may have to eat my words!

 

[rantan]

1 minute ago, Lance B said:

 Maybe the very slightly loose connection to the amp was making more of an effect then I thought possible. However, I am not so sure it was just purely the connection that would have made such a difference as it wasn't really that loose.

 

 

I think the loose connection may have been worse than it seemed but anyway, I am glad it has worked out.

[Lance B]

Trust me, no one is more skeptical than me, but it seems so much better across the whole system. I just don't think a slightly loose, and when I say it was ever so slight I mean it was just slight, could make such a difference. Anyway, whatever the case, it has worked.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

13 hours ago, Lance B said:

 Maybe the very slightly loose connection to the amp was making more of an effect then I thought possible. 

 

 

THIS ^^^^^^^^^ is the important thing and why captive power cables are far, far superior to any nonsensically priced IEC connector. The wire is inconsequential. The connection is not. A good quality HPM or Clipsal three pin mains connector and a captive power lead is the best solution. IEC connectors are the worst solution. If a detachable connector is desired then this:

 

http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/

 

Is the one I recommend and use. MUCH better than any gold or rhodium plated IEC junk. 

 

[Lance B]

2 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

THIS ^^^^^^^^^ is the important thing and why captive power cables are far, far superior to any nonsensically priced IEC connector. The wire is inconsequential. The connection is not. A good quality HPM or Clipsal three pin mains connector and a captive power lead is the best solution. IEC connectors are the worst solution. If a detachable connector is desired then this:

 

http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/

 

Is the one I recommend and use. MUCH better than any gold or rhodium plated IEC junk. 

 

 

The better connection is probably much to do with the much better sound, although the extra CSA probably also helps a little. I have used those Neutrik connectors before on a car subwoofer enclosure that I needed to remove from time to time and it worked well. Don't know that I want to do that to the amp, though. Seems as though the new power cable is doing the job now anyway. Thanks for the input. 

[A9X]

48 minutes ago, Lance B said:

 

although the extra CSA probably also helps a little.

Sorry, but it won't make any difference as you'll never draw enough current.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, Lance B said:

 

The better connection is probably much to do with the much better sound

 

Yep. And the Neutrik I referred to improves things significantly more than ANY IEC connector. IEC connectors are the crappiest available, regardless of the material they happen to be plated with. Even better, is a proper, captive power cable.

 

1 hour ago, Lance B said:

 

, although the extra CSA probably also helps a little.

 

Nope. 

 

1 hour ago, Lance B said:

 

 

[Lance B]

57 minutes ago, A9X said:

Sorry, but it won't make any difference as you'll never draw enough current.

 

Maybe, maybe not. At the end of the day, it probably all helps. I am still not convinced that the ever so slightly loose connection would make such a difference either, but there you go. We are talking a very minor looseness, a cable that was originally put on the amp years ago and has sat there never touched for many years and thus could not have worn loose. It must have been like that, or similar, from the start. However, when I first set up the system it sounded stunning, dynamic, huge bass, great sound stage and well balanced - an amazing sound all round and everyone who listened to it agreed. However, due to other priorities in life I had not listened to it critically for many years. It was just recently when my Marantz SA7001 KI Signature (10 years old) decided to not play some SACDs and CDs that I decided to buy a new SACD player and I went for the Marantz SA14 S1 SE. However, the system still didn't sound how I thought it sounded when I first set it up years ago and I was blaming the SACD player and poor recordings or maybe a memory seen through "rose coloured glasses". This was mainly due to the sound now sounding a little thin and lacking a little bass - it was there but not as dominant/dynamic/balanced as it once was or maybe how I thought it was. I checked everything including the amp's power connection and did notice it was not as snug as I would have liked but never thought much of it. I unplugged and inserted it a few times to "clean the connection", but it was still never as tight as I would have liked - again, I must stress that this was a very slight looseness and not something I would have thought would have made such a difference. My background is electrician and electrical engineering and have dabbled in this sort of thing for many years so I do know about good contact and power requirements. As I said, it can't have worn loose as it didn't ever get moved. I even tried a new standard cable but it still wasn't a snug fit. That is when I thought I would bite the bullet and buy the "better" cables and the rest is history. Now, whose to say that the actual electrical connection itself is tighter, it may just be tight into the socket, not necessarily the actual contacts. As I said, I tried another new standard type cable and it was no better, so the contacts may not have been the issue, it might just be a little loose in the plastic housing of the socket. I even inserted a piece of thin plastic between the plug and the housing to tighten the plug into the housing up a bit. Didn't make a difference. The original cable must never have been a really tight fit but it used to sound glorious. However, with the new cable it sounds like I remember it used to. Actually, I think it sounds better, stunning in fact, I cannot listen to it enough now. So, I am thinking that the snug fit helped but maybe also the extra CSA. We can speculate all we like, but the fact is, it has worked and worked well. I am not ruling out anything.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by Lance B

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

THIS ^^^^^^^^^ is the important thing and why captive power cables are far, far superior to any nonsensically priced IEC connector. The wire is inconsequential. The connection is not. A good quality HPM or Clipsal three pin mains connector and a captive power lead is the best solution. IEC connectors are the worst solution. If a detachable connector is desired then this:

 

http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/

 

Is the one I recommend and use. MUCH better than any gold or rhodium plated IEC junk. 

 

 

So how does one fit something like that neutrik to a power amp?

i assume it requires a tech?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

7 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

So how does one fit something like that neutrik to a power amp?

i assume it requires a tech?

 

It sure does. It ain't rocket surgery though. It's nicer than IEC connectors, because you can just use a stepped drill and a couple of 3mm holes. Easy, quick and looks good. 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 hours ago, Lance B said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. At the end of the day, it probably all helps. I am still not convinced that the ever so slightly loose connection would make such a difference either, but there you go. 

 

A loose connection is very bad in two ways:

 

* You lose an amount of energy in the connector. That amount of energy will change depending on a range of factors.

* A loose connector can cause intermittent power transfer, which can be very bad for sound quality. Again, in several ways:

     1) An intermittent drop in supply Voltage.

     2) RFI will be radiated by intermittent connections. That energy can find it's way into the amplifier. Sometimes it is subtle, sometimes it isn't. Either way, a good connection system, like the Neutrik one, or a captive mains lead will eliminate those problems. IEC connections are simply really dodgy. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Lance B]

I realise all that. However, we are talking about 240 Volts, not low Volts where a slightly loose connection will result in more power loss and a very audible issue. However, as I said, the connection was only just barely not tight and as it is 240 Volts thus I would consider it not such a big issue. Anyway, we can go on debating this ad infinitum. I get the fact that the IEC connectors are not the best, but it seems to be ok now. If it plays up again, I will merely hard wire the cord to the amp and thus remove the connection issue once and for all.  

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

16 minutes ago, Lance B said:

I realise all that. However, we are talking about 240 Volts, not low Volts where a slightly loose connection will result in more power loss and a very audible issue. However, as I said, the connection was only just barely not tight and as it is 240 Volts thus I would consider it not such a big issue. Anyway, we can go on debating this ad infinitum. I get the fact that the IEC connectors are not the best, but it seems to be ok now. If it plays up again, I will merely hard wire the cord to the amp and thus remove the connection issue once and for all.  

 

The IEC connector has some very serious drawbacks. Just because it may feel tight, does not mean that:

 

* The mains connections are tight.

* That either active or neutral may be exhibiting a poor connection.

 

A loose connector is a major problem, as outlined above. And, as I stated before (many times) replacing the IEC connector with a proper, decent connector, like the Neutrik one, or hard wiring is, far and away, the best option. 

[Rob181]

3 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

The IEC connector has some very serious drawbacks. 

 

Zaph...not taking the P*!! (well maybe just a little)...

But is the difference between ICE connector & hard wired discernible &/or measurable...

Regardless of the equipment...eg amps Vs CD players for example...

Edited August 4, 2017 by Rob181

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, Rob181 said:

 

Zaph...not taking the P*!! (well maybe just a little)...

But is the difference between ICE connector & hard wired discernible &/or measurable...

 

Yes and yes. It is, however, important to put it into perspective.

 

IF we assume a brand new, SILVER plated (any other plating material on any power connector is just idiotic), high quality IEC plug and socket, then the losses and problems are likely to be incredibly minuscule. However, as the IEC plug is plugged and unplugged, then the integrity of the connection becomes poorer (particularly with very thin, very soft plating materials, like gold). Oxidisation adds another layer of problems. Naturally, a captive power lead solves any problems. Connectors such as the Neutrik one cited utilise a 'wiping' motion on every insertion. Any oxide is removed. Additionally the connectors use silver plating. Silver being the lowest resistance conductor makes it the best choice. Additionally, due to the cost of silver, plating thickness is normally far greater than more precious metals, like gold. 

 

In any case, to specifically respond to your question, my opinion is that anyone who can reliably hear a difference (under double blind conditions) between two cables, is almost certainly hearing a difference between the connectors. Cable differences are, for the most part, inconsequential. Further: Claiming to hear a difference under non-DBT conditions is, of course, not relevant. 

[Rob181]

@Zaphod Beeblebrox...thanks for the response...very much appreciated...

This non relevant person has heard differences in non DBT circumstances...

But this is not the thread for that discussion...

Hard wired just makes sense to this non qualified technical person...

(a degree in business is not much help with this stuff)...

[betty boop]

10 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

@Zaphod Beeblebrox...thanks for the response...very much appreciated...

This non relevant person has heard differences in non DBT circumstances...

But this is not the thread for that discussion...

Hard wired just makes sense to this non qualified technical person...

(a degree in business is not much help with this stuff)...

 

Yes can we please not take this off topic. there are plenty of other threads and places if wanting a cable debate. this thread is with regards compliance please lets keep it so.

[Lance B]

2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

The IEC connector has some very serious drawbacks. Just because it may feel tight, does not mean that:

 

* The mains connections are tight.

* That either active or neutral may be exhibiting a poor connection.

 

A loose connector is a major problem, as outlined above. And, as I stated before (many times) replacing the IEC connector with a proper, decent connector, like the Neutrik one, or hard wiring is, far and away, the best option. 

 

So, if the new cable isn't giving tighter mains connection but I have superior sound - extra dynamics, bass, clarity sound stage etc - then it can only be the extra CSA of the cable, rather than the connection, that is giving me the better sound.  However, I am not saying that it is not the better connection, nor am I saying it is not the larger CSA of the cable. I think there are a number of factors at play here, just do not dismiss them all or any out of hand. 

 

Also, I don't think you're giving me enough credit. I am not new to this and have been involved in the game for a long time and know my subject. 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 hours ago, Lance B said:

 

So, if the new cable isn't giving tighter mains connection but I have superior sound - extra dynamics, bass, clarity sound stage etc - then it can only be the extra CSA of the cable, rather than the connection, that is giving me the better sound.  However, I am not saying that it is not the better connection, nor am I saying it is not the larger CSA of the cable. I think there are a number of factors at play here, just do not dismiss them all or any out of hand. 

 

Also, I don't think you're giving me enough credit. I am not new to this and have been involved in the game for a long time and know my subject. 

 

I actually stated after your first post that it was likely the connector that was providing the sonic difference you noted. My comment, above, was more of a general nature, where I outlined the major drawbacks with the IEC connector. That is, that even though it may feel tight, the connections may not be secure. OR they may be. You can never know for certain. OTOH, with the Neutrik connector, connections MUST always be secure. It is a fundamental design feature of the connection system. 

[niss_man]

@Lance B. Why not get a multimeter, or better a insulation/ resistance tester and check resistances from the plug top to the internal input wires to the amp. Compare loose fit iec to tight fit.
I was wondering what new tight cables you ended up using.
Also I wonder if degradation in sound was the oxidisation of power cord contacts with age?

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[niss_man]

Meaning the internal contacts of the cable not the ends of the plugs.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Lance B]

58 minutes ago, niss_man said:

@Lance B. Why not get a multimeter, or better a insulation/ resistance tester and check resistances from the plug top to the internal input wires to the amp. Compare loose fit iec to tight fit.
I was wondering what new tight cables you ended up using.
Also I wonder if degradation in sound was the oxidisation of power cord contacts with age?

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
 

 

I don't think a multimeter will give an accurate reason as to what is going on, I just don't think there is enough of a resistance going on to be readable as we obviously have contact and the amp was still delivering. Also, as I said, we are talking about 240V, not low volts. I think we would be talking of differences in the micro ohms as the cable resistance would need to be taken into consideration from any reading.  

 

I ended up using the Isotek EV03 Intium power cables, which is the cheapest in their range. The only reason I purchased them was to get a tighter IEC fit at the amp end and that 2mm squared cable was twice the area of the original cable of 1mm squared. I had no delusions of exotic insulations and the way it is wound etc that would make a difference to the sound or noise. The new cable was purchased purely for a better contact at the IEC input and more csa is better (within reason) approach.  

 

There didn't seem to be any oxidisation when I looked at the input terminals of the amp itself, they looked clean. The terminals of the original cord looked fine as well. I also inserted and pulled out the old cable a few times to "clean the contacts" as well just in case. I then also ended up using a new IEC cable from another reasonably recently purchased product and it made no difference to the sound nor the tightness. I think internal connection of the cable are generally spot welded? That would have to be checked. However, internal connections inside the cable would need to be open to air to cause oxidisation and they are in a sealed plastic jacket so I doubt that would be an issue. Not only that, but I did use a new IEC cable that I didn't use on a recently purchased product and thus would not be old enough to have oxidisation occurring. 

 

 

[Lance B]

I ended up hard wiring the Isotek EV03 cable to the amp and now there is no worries about any loose connections with the IEC plug at the amp end. I removed the IEC socket from the amp and replaced it with a piece of 3mm aluminium to cover the hole and used the screws that held the socket in place. I drilled an 18mm hole for a metal cable gland to hold the Isotek 03 cable in place and then connected the wires to the power switch on the amp. I also shortened the lead by about a foot. It is all as solid as a rock, looks like it came from the factory that way, except there is a green lead! Does it sound better? I think it does, but it could be just mind over matter. Whatever the case, it is one less connection to worry about.  

[Diatone]

Is it ok if we use adapter plug from USA cable to Australia?

[vong]

Hi all,

 

I see a lot of cables and power conditions with US plugs and sockets in the classifieds and want to know why people buy/use those instead of AU ones?