Amari RW-800 Record Cleaning Machine

[Mat-with-one-t]

Right.  We need a national initiative.  We'll mark a day of the year "Vinyl Cleansing Day".  We'll allocate vinyl listeners to every op shop in the land, each of whom is responsible for ridding their local haunt of these time-robbing atrocities.  No longer will a flick-through take 3 hours, and no longer will the same goddam albums be there that you were certain were there when you first started flicking 3 years ago.  No more:

- Harry Secombe

- Kamahl

- all pipe bands. period.

- all records with either a choirboy or a priest on the cover

- box sets of crappily pressed classical

- anything to do with Christmas whatsoever

- any album featuring a girl on the cover with suspiciously see-through clothing either standing on a beach or leaning on a tree in some sort of formal garden

- Charles Aznavour

- The Seekers

- Harry Secombe (worth a second mention).

C'mon people.  One day a year will save countless hours of productivity.  Furthermore, the sheer bulk of the aforementioned vinyl could be melted down and reconstituted into medium density affordable living country wide.  Win-win.

 

mods - I'm happy to make this a separate topic, or perhaps a website of its own!

Edited May 27, 2017 by Mat-with-one-t

[jeromelang]

There's no doubt about it - you will enjoy your vinyl records better - when they are squeaky clean

 

[Mat-with-one-t]

3 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

There's no doubt about it - you will enjoy your vinyl records better - when they are squeaky clean

 

Slow it from 45 to 33 and you'll get Tony Bennett

[TP1]

 
Cool. I also await to hear about your friends experience with the RW 660. Do you still use your Audio Desk at all?

Audio Deske is idle and broken at the moment. I will eventually try DIY repairs. Although my friends RW-660 has just arrived and I now wonder whether the Audio Deske should just be scrapped instead.

[TP1]

Ps can you run the 800 like an automatic US cleaner - ie spin dry rather than vacuum dry?

 

Also what's the reliability of the Amari.

 

I remember reading cathyslinks site saying they dropped Amari because of reliability issues

 

Cathyslink are not authorised to sell most gear they get hold of. They outright bag any manufacturer that has been successful in preventing or otherwise impacting unauthorised sales.

 

Amari make OEM machines for a number of different brands. They also make the substantial range of Hanns Acoustic line of Turntables which is also sold under their own brand name. They have significant engineering and industrial capabilities and are more substantial and capable than any other manufacturer of RCM than I can think of.

 

Having owned both VPI and Audiodeske , Amari quality leaves those two brands severely lacking

[TP1]

I've now managed to have a play the Amari RW-660 before handing it over to its owner. It is essentially the same as the Audio Deske unit but with some alterations.

 

Beautifully constructed and finished

 

 

How times have changed. Well crafted Aluminium case on the Chinese unit and PVC case on the German unit .

 

 

With some added flexibility

 

 

A slightly different approach to drying. The Amari unit is a bit quieter. I have not needed to increase the standard drying time of 4 minutes. Not a drop on the records so far.

 

 

[Martykt]

The question though @Tasso is which one ??

 The rw-800 or rw-660?

[DoggieHowser]

Same question Tasso

[TP1]

Both clean and dry the records extremely well.

 

Highlights of RW-800

 

1. Speed- if you want to do a number of records quickly, or even just one to play immediately, you can do it with the RW-800 in 2.5 minutes. 2 minutes Ultrasonic + 30 sec drying

2. Wide range of adjustments for ultrasonic power and cleaning time. 

3. Simple electronic design, easy to maintain.

4. Ultrasonic power in RW-800 is higher than RW-660. 

 

Highlights of RW-660

1. Fully automatic operation. A luxury which most vinyl record users would appreciate.   Cleaning a record is never too hard because you just pop it in  and press a button.  

2. Freight cost is cheaper due to lower weight. 

3. Takes up less bench space

4. Selectable  cleaning and drying time . Although different power levels are not selectable, you can select longer cleaning time for dirtier records.

 

I cant fault the performance of either but if you prefer  a more "hands-on" approach to cleaning records and that extra bit of speed is an important factor, then the RW-800 is the better choice.   If you prefer the luxury and convenience of a fully automatic RCM, then RW-660  would be the right choice.  

 

 

[jeromelang]

If you are like me who has experienced the tremendous benefits of contactless drying, the choice is clear.

 

Avoid all forms of vacuuming that has brushes underneath the vacuum nozzles!!!

[TP1]

If you are like me who has experienced the tremendous benefits of contactless drying, the choice is clear.
 
Avoid all forms of vacuuming that has brushes underneath the vacuum nozzles!!!

I used to think that way too. But we use brushes every day to clean records without any drama. There is no getting away from it completely.

If you vacuum for too long, static can build up its easily avoided.

[TP1]

I should also point out that RW-800 vacuuming can be differentiated from the traditional RCM vacuum systems. With the VPI, Nitty Gritty etc RCM's, the vacuum is used to extract both the cleaning fluid and 100% of the dirt dislodged from the record. This leads to some dirt build up on the brush as the brush is in reality cleaning the record as well as drying it.
With the RW-800, the record has been cleaned by the ultrasonic cleaning process and after around 100 records already, the vacuum heads are still pristine.

[jeromelang]

37 minutes ago, Tasso said:

 

I used to think that way too. But we use brushes every day to clean records without any drama. There is no getting away from it completely.

If you vacuum for too long, static can build up its easily avoided.

 

 

Until you have directly compared contactless drying against drying with brushes in contact with vinyl surfaces then you will know the problem I'm talking about. I won't tell you what you will hear. You will need to try it out yourself.

 

And once your system lets you hear the problem, and you take steps to go contactless drying, then you may start hearing another issue - different water using for ultrasonic cleaning (which is one of a form of what I'll call "contactless cleaning") will give you different sound!

 

And after you become aware of it, this leads to issue -  Water temperature. 

 

Yes, temperature will change the sound of your record.

 

Avoid cleaners that heat up the water!

 

 

[jeromelang]

You were always warned never to vacuum your vinyl record surfaces for too many rounds.

 

Both manufacturers and users will tell you one revolution round is enough.

Any more rounds will lead to build up of "something"

 

What is this "something"?

How does this "something" occurs?

What is happening when the brushes rub against the vinyl surfaces?

And what's the difference between 1 rev round vs 3 rev round (as an example)?

 

 

[TP1]

 
Until you have directly compared contactless drying against drying with brushes in contact with vinyl surfaces then you will know the problem I'm talking about. I won't tell you what you will hear. You will need to try it out yourself.
 
And once your system lets you hear the problem, and you take steps to go contactless drying, then you may start hearing another issue - different water using for ultrasonic cleaning (which is one of a form of what I'll call "contactless cleaning") will give you different sound!
 
And after you become aware of it, this leads to issue -  Water temperature. 
 
Yes, temperature will change the sound of your record.
 
Avoid cleaners that heat up the water!
 
 

I'm not new to this rodeo and I have owned both blow dry and vacuum dry RCM's for years. I would suggest that the vacuum RCMs you would have tried would not have cleaned the records as effectively as the ultrasonic types. There was an improvement moving to Audiodeske ultrasonic Cleaner from the single sided stir and vacuum type of Cleaner.


However, there are also noticeable improvements using the RW-800 compared to the blow-dry Audiodeske. The drying method doesn't come into it once you clean the records in an ultrasonic RCM.

[jeromelang]

On 5/29/2017 at 1:23 PM, Tasso said:

 

Quote

 

Until you have directly compared contactless drying against drying with brushes in contact with vinyl surfaces then you will know the problem I'm talking about. I won't tell you what you will hear. You will need to try it out yourself.
 
And once your system lets you hear the problem, and you take steps to go contactless drying, then you may start hearing another issue - different water using for ultrasonic cleaning (which is one of a form of what I'll call "contactless cleaning") will give you different sound!
 
And after you become aware of it, this leads to issue -  Water temperature. 
 
Yes, temperature will change the sound of your record.
 
Avoid cleaners that heat up the water!
 
 

 

 

Quote

I'm not new to this rodeo and I have owned both blow dry and vacuum dry RCM's for years. I would suggest that the vacuum RCMs you would have tried would not have cleaned the records as effectively as the ultrasonic types. There was an improvement moving to Audiodeske ultrasonic Cleaner from the single sided stir and vacuum type of Cleaner.


However, there are also noticeable improvements using the RW-800 compared to the blow-dry Audiodeske. The drying method doesn't come into it once you clean the records in an ultrasonic RCM.




 

 

 

 

Getting records cleaned is not be all and end all.

 

In my previous post, i didn't mentioned anything about "cleanliness".

Cleanliness should be the least of our worries.

Sound should be an important consideration.

 

My post was about "sound" as a result of the type of drying method used, the type of water used, and the temperature of the water used in the cleaning. All of these, individually, and collectively, will have very audible effects on the records' sound during playback subsequently. 

 

Brushes underneath vacuum nozzels brushing against vinyl surfaces can audibly affect soundstaging (even with just 1 singular rev). In some cases, a sense of dynamic impact being lost can be noted. 

 

A simple way to alleviate this is just putting the record in a high-speed spinner and splashing some tap water over it. 

 

(Yes, i do mean tap water)

 

The soundstaging and dynamics will be restored.

 

Spinning works better than blowing in removing moisture (and debris). 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by jeromelang

[TP1]

7 hours ago, jeromelang said:

 

 

Getting records cleaned is not be all and end all.

 

In my previous post, i didn't mentioned anything about "cleanliness".

Cleanliness should be the least of our worries.

Sound should be an important consideration.

 

My post was about "sound" as a result of the type of drying method used, the type of water used, and the temperature of the water used in the cleaning. All of these, individually, and collectively, will have very audible effects on the records' sound during playback subsequently. 

 

Brushes underneath vacuum nozzels brushing against vinyl surfaces can audibly affect soundstaging (even with just 1 singular rev). In some cases, a sense of dynamic impact being lost can be noted. 

 

A simple way to alleviate this is just putting the record in a high-speed spinner and splashing some tap water over it. 

 

(Yes, i do mean tap water)

 

The soundstaging and dynamics will be restored.

 

Spinning works better than blowing in removing moisture (and debris). 

 

 

 

 

Interesting observations. That has not been my experience when using ultrasonic cleaning with vacuuming. Quite the contrary.   And yes, sound is indeed the most important consideration but i dont share your concern that  cleanliness  should be the least of our worries.  The two are not mutually exclusive. 

 

Sonic variations on a record are the result of physical differences on the record surface, assuming static is under control.  The stylus will simply vibrate according to whatever is in grooves . The purer the surface is, the less deviation from perfect you will get.   

[jeromelang]

37 minutes ago, Tasso said:

 

 

 That has not been my experience when using ultrasonic cleaning with vacuuming. Quite the contrary.  

 

Without ever experiencing the sound of your vinyl after conditioning them with tap water and contact-less drying, on what basis can you say "contrary"....?

[Midori]

@jeromelang  can you explain how you spin dry? I tried looking in web but found nothing. So you are suggesting that after contact vacuum dry, we could spray some tap water on then spin dry?

[jeromelang]

42 minutes ago, Tasso said:

 

 

 i dont share your concern that  cleanliness  should be the least of our worries.  The two are not mutually exclusive. Sonic variations on a record are the result of physical differences on the record surface, assuming static is under control.  The stylus will simply vibrate according to whatever is in grooves . The purer the surface is, the less deviation from perfect you will get.   

 

When needle encounter surface debris, you'll hear pops and ticks, which, although are added onto the music, you will still hear the music itself as a separate entity.

 

The effects of brushes against the surfaces of the vinyl permeates into the music itself - changing its timbre, tonality, its soundstage projection and its sense of dynamics. They become inseparable! Fortunately, this is only temporarily. Can be restored to optimum with just tap water and contact-less drying.

[TP1]

1 minute ago, jeromelang said:

 

Without ever experiencing the sound of your vinyl after conditioning them with tap water and contact-less drying, on what basis can you say "contrary"....?

 

 

Who said i didnt?!!  i  had  done so for quite a while  - although i did final rinse with distilled water.    Your advice to use tap water is unique  and something that no-one should endorse due to the build up of calcium and other mineral deposits as the water evaporates. 

 

It is clear however, that you have not experienced the RCM which is the topic of this thread, so your observations are not really valid

[jeromelang]

15 minutes ago, coeuslee said:

@jeromelang  can you explain how you spin dry? I tried looking in web but found nothing. So you are suggesting that after contact vacuum dry, we could spray some tap water on then spin dry?

 

Yes, you won't find much information of spinner devices, unfortunately.

But here in Singapore, one can buy a spinner box for around $450

I believe the more hands-on inclined person can diy similar ones for less than half.

 

And yes, after the contact vacuum dry process, you can try first playing some portion of a track on the record.

 

Then put the record into a spinner and while on fast spin, spray some tap water.

Continue spinning until dry.

 

Then play another portion of the same track on the record.

 

You will notice the sonic differences I described.

 

Always avoid playing the same portion on the vinyl.

(There will be sonic changes due to groove wall deformation)

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by jeromelang

[jeromelang]

Just now, Tasso said:

 

 

Who said i didnt?!!  i  had  done so for quite a while  - although i did final rinse with distilled water.    Your advice to use tap water is unique  and something that no-one should endorse due to the build up of calcium and other mineral deposits as the water evaporates. 

 

I believe you have had showers with tap water ever since you're a child.

Why aren't you caked deep in calcium?

[TP1]

3 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

 

When needle encounter surface debris, you'll hear pops and ticks, which, although are added onto the music, you will still hear the music itself as a separate entity.

 

The effects of brushes against the surfaces of the vinyl permeates into the music itself - changing its timbre, tonality, its soundstage projection and its sense of dynamics. They become inseparable! Fortunately, this is only temporarily. Can be restored to optimum with just tap water and contact-less drying.

 

Wrong,  insufficiently cleaned records  create more than ticks and pops . There can be a veil over the music which is what I think you are trying to describe.   

[jeromelang]

Just now, Tasso said:

 

Wrong,  insufficiently cleaned records  create more than ticks and pops . There can be a veil over the music which is what I think you are trying to describe.   

 

Don't get confused over 2 separate issues