How Do You stand Digital colour?!?!

[Mojo-Man]

Please show me the quote where I rubbished the Qualia.

[ijd]

Please show me the quote where I rubbished the Qualia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Qualia still has limited contrast ratio and has as much stunted promise as Dila which is pitiful OOB both in terms of on/off contrast ratio and colour balance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Mojo-Man]

All of which is confirmed in the specifications.

Read them for yourself.

These are the facts - it is documented and well established by owners viewers and reviewers.

Why is it always 'rubbishing something' when you detail **established facts** about the performance envelope?

Can we not deal with true information and accept what it is?

[OzHTfan]

All of which is confirmed in the specifications.

Read them for yourself.

These are the facts - it is documented and well established by owners viewers and reviewers.

Why is it always 'rubbishing something' when you detail **established facts** about the performance envelope?

Can we not deal with true information and accept what it is?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you need to read the whole review. Or is it the case that you are again superior in your knowledge to yet another set of expert reviewers who have wholeheartly praised the Qualia?

Sony Qualia Q004 review

Why not just admit you're in that 1% of people the Qualia isn't good enough for...

[Mojo-Man]

I'm not in the 1 per cent.

The Qualia is a projector that has limited CR but offers considerable potential at considerable cost (and ongoing costs!)

Again: what is 'rubbishing a projector' when you're dealing with Owner's Manual published spcifications?

[Guest]

CR is an important aspect of projectors, but unfortunately just isnt the be-all. 10,000:1 contrast ratio is a waste of time if your PJ has a resolution of, say 200 x 150. I may be acting silly, but just proving a point. Your argument Mojo-Man seems to be limited to the area of contrast ratio, but you seem reluctant to discuss the issues of cost, placement, repair costs, resolution, brightness etc etc.

[laurie]

It wasn't that long ago I was critical of the Sony VW10HT projector despite the rants and raves from the digital crowd about its performance.

Given the time in-between generations, it's remarkable how many of the previous Sony VWHT fan-club now sound exactly like me.

Not me mate [you just hit a nerve] I still love it and have it! I just came to the conclusion Mojo-Man I can understand what's your problem....it's your E Y E S that need calibration not the pj so please see an optometrist most have bulk billing available

cheers laurie

[OzHTfan]

I'm not in the 1 per cent.

The Qualia is a projector that has limited CR but offers considerable potential at considerable cost (and ongoing costs!)

Again: what is 'rubbishing a projector' when you're dealing with Owner's Manual published spcifications?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, you are obviously more the expert than these HT experts who have spent considerable days putting the Qualia through it's paces. How can you review a projector in this league 'on paper' from it's spec list?? It has been stated clearly in this review that the on paper CR is misleading and not comparable to DLP three chippers or otherwise:

Being as this is a bulb-based projector as are all current fixed pixel projectors, the contrast ratio is questionable. While our CR numbers don’t necessarily reflect the same numbers some of the better DLPs have shown, for example the Sharp XV-Z12000U which can do close to 4000:1 while the Q004 does closer to 2000:1, the blacks are definitely blacker on the Qualia than on any DLP on the market today. How is the possible? Simple: Sony’s chip uses perpendicular cell alignment and a high-contrast panel to achieve the lowest blacks possible on video signals. The true CR can not be measured accurately in comparison to DLP, as DLP uses a much weaker bulb than the Qualia’s Pure Xenon bulb. At a 100% black or 0IRE screen, the bulb still outputs a modicum of light, whereas the weaker DLP bulb is almost black due to sheer intensity of the bulb. However, in sequences such as the Lobby Shoot-Out at the end of the first Matrix DVD, the blacks on Trinity and Neo’s outfits are not only true black, but varying shades of black with distinguishable details. CRT purists will complain that Full Off still contains light, but this is a downfall of the lamp-based display, and will continue to be unless manufacturers begin gimmicking their way through it by closing off the iris completely to measure CR. This would do nothing for the picture, and certainly would only boost the contrast ratio measurement.

The Qualia uses a 12-bit panel driver at the final DSP stage, another quality seal that helps deliver “charcoal” blacks. Twelve-bit color correct is much closer to an accurate curve, and the difference is noticeable. Color reproduction is spot-on. The combination of the SXRD panel, 12-bit panel driver along with the Pure Xenon bulb is a revolution compared to the current batch of UHP DLPs and L-COS projectors. Even the high-end JVC D-ILAs and 3 Chip DLPs simply do not achieve the overall black level and film-like quality of the Qualia.

If that doesn't back up my point about pre-judging a projector off a spec sheet, I don't know what does...

If you are saying you are not in that 1%, are then saying you are in 99% who would be happy with a Qualia (strangely, I doubt that). Or are you somehow a person who resides an even smaller fraction of that 1% who is even more demanding still? I would have though by your previous statements on CRT you would fit the person who needs a CRT in the $50k-$US130K range to satisfy their projection requirements...

[ToeCutter]

Please show me the quote where I rubbished the Qualia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Qualia still has limited contrast ratio and has as much stunted promise as Dila which is pitiful OOB both in terms of on/off contrast ratio and colour balance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Has as much stunted promise as Dila which is pitiful OOB "(out of the box)

All of which is confirmed in the specifications.

Read them for yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I looked at the specifications and couldn't find any reference to it being pitiful out of the box or having 'stunted promise'

I guess that's the part where you rubbished it.

[tonyf]

TROLL

TROLl

TROLL

TROLL

That best describes this post I feel!!!!!!

But I have had agood laugh

Thanks MOJO-Man you're my hero

[Paranoid666au]

Hello Mojo-Man. After reading through some of this thread I have established that you have issues. You seem very much like a troll.

I shall boycott anything to do with you, I will not respond to you or help you with anything. I suggest everyone do the same. The moderators should kick you out for while until you learn to treat people with respect and not post idiotic threads.

[djOS]

Hello Mojo-Man. After reading through some of this thread I have established that you have issues. You seem very much like a troll.

I shall boycott anything to do with you, I will not respond to you or help you with anything. I suggest everyone do the same. The moderators should kick you out for while until you learn to treat people with respect and not post idiotic threads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, mojo-man is quite clearly either a troll or a 14year old kid with delusions of Adequacy!

[Mojo-Man]

I'm not in the 1 per cent.

If that doesn't back up my point about pre-judging a projector off a spec sheet, I don't know what does...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're quite right that you don't know what does - because your review quote confirms *my* view - it's typically superficial and misleading.

Let's be specific and categoric here: The Qualia is being compared to DLP projector for black level...! That alone is laughable. The fact it has claimed superior shadow detail than DLP is hardly glowing endorsement for state of the art black reproduction. DLP is not capable of black anymore than JVC Dila is or the Qualia is; it is offering the same performance as all other digital projectors - a fact confirmed in the review but typically downplayed - because it remains digital's fundamental weakness: it can *NOT* achieve total abscence of light WHEN THE MEDIUM CALLS FOR IT.

When films fade to black - the Qualia will fade to grey - this can be seen in its performance (see the scen on Toy Story 2 when Buzz falls thru the grate into tota; darkness or on Starship Troopers when the soldier is eaten alive (Fade to Black).

The fact it **still** can't achieve black-out (true on-off contrast with zero light output) means ot offers exactly the same performance as an entry level office display Epsom!

Now a projector is simply an amplifier. If it amplifies something not on the source material, in audio terms that is called distortion - and a grey screen when the film calls for black is distortion - so when you compare a projector's qualities ***please*** compare it to reality. That is the benchmark - not another projector.

The fact is the Qualia offers much the same as we've seen before: no on-off Contrast; extraordinary running cost, hyperbole over its performance which still fails to surpass CRT.

And while looking for oither views about the Qualia CR I found this: " The long awaited Sony SXRD projector (three-panel LCD, 1920 x 1080 native)

introduction had good and bad about it. The gamma setting appeared to be

incorrect. The color gamut was way beyond SMPTE C, which is how DVDs and HD are color corrected against. Blacks and whites were crushed. The image was soft. Black was not as good as current DLP. The contrast ratio (CR) was not even close to 3000:1. Best guess was 700:1. Some of these issues may have been setup, or prototype problems, but you would expect them to get it

right."

Damn right I expect them to get it right. I also expect discussion about it to be balanaced and factual.

The simply point is the Qualia has potential - but the hyperbole here places it in a league it simply doesn't deserve.

One wonders what you boys will say when Sony finally releases a projector capable of rednering a film acurately with resolution and CR superior in specs and in real-world performance.

In hindsight, I imagine the exagerrated claims about this Qualia will begin to take their rightful place.

It's a pity we didn't start there with this discussion.

[ToeCutter]

One wonders what you boys will say when Sony finally releases a projector capable of rednering a film acurately with resolution and CR superior in specs and in real-world performance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When that happens we will all be very happy and will go out and buy one. Until that time comes we will enjoy what we have and make the most of life.

You can sit under your bridge and whine about things that you feel do not meet your standards and send abusive emails off to Toyota for not making a car that runs on a watch battery. You can invite all your friends to come and visit (I'm sure they will all fit on the two seater couch next to you) and you can proudly display your collection of LPs that you never play because even a single run on the turntable will cause slight erosion in the tracks that will mean a loss in real world fidelity and sound reproduction.

[OzHTfan]

If that doesn't back up my point about pre-judging a projector off a spec sheet, I don't know what does...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're quite right that you don't know what does - because your review quote confirms *my* view - it's typically superficial and misleading.

Let's be specific and categoric here: The Qualia is being compared to DLP projector for black level...! That alone is laughable. The fact it has claimed superior shadow detail than DLP is hardly glowing endorsement for state of the art black reproduction. DLP is not capable of black anymore than JVC Dila is or the Qualia is; it is offering the same performance as all other digital projectors - a fact confirmed in the review but typically downplayed - because it remains digital's fundamental weakness: it can *NOT* achieve total abscence of light WHEN THE MEDIUM CALLS FOR IT.

When films fade to black - the Qualia will fade to grey - this can be seen in its performance (see the scen on Toy Story 2 when Buzz falls thru the grate into tota; darkness or on Starship Troopers when the soldier is eaten alive (Fade to Black).

The fact it **still** can't achieve black-out (true on-off contrast with zero light output) means ot offers exactly the same performance as an entry level office display Epsom!

Now a projector is simply an amplifier. If it amplifies something not on the source material, in audio terms that is called distortion - and a grey screen when the film calls for black is distortion - so when you compare a projector's qualities ***please*** compare it to reality. That is the benchmark - not another projector.

The fact is the Qualia offers much the same as we've seen before: no on-off Contrast; extraordinary running cost, hyperbole over its performance which still fails to surpass CRT.

And while looking for oither views about the Qualia CR I found this: " The long awaited Sony SXRD projector (three-panel LCD, 1920 x 1080 native)

introduction had good and bad about it. The gamma setting appeared to be

incorrect. The color gamut was way beyond SMPTE C, which is how DVDs and HD are color corrected against. Blacks and whites were crushed. The image was soft. Black was not as good as current DLP. The contrast ratio (CR) was not even close to 3000:1. Best guess was 700:1. Some of these issues may have been setup, or prototype problems, but you would expect them to get it

right."

Damn right I expect them to get it right. I also expect discussion about it to be balanaced and factual.

The simply point is the Qualia has potential - but the hyperbole here places it in a league it simply doesn't deserve.

One wonders what you boys will say when Sony finally releases a projector capable of rednering a film acurately with resolution and CR superior in specs and in real-world performance.

In hindsight, I imagine the exagerrated claims about this Qualia will begin to take their rightful place.

It's a pity we didn't start there with this discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh, mojo-man and his broken quotes syndrome...let me fix it again..

Now back to the subject...

So who is this unnamed reviewer, they stand out as being so far contrary to every other person/publication that has reviewed the Qualia to date? Contrast ratio 700:1, soft image (WTF were they watching!!), yeah right! They were probably measuring ANSI CR instead of ON/OFF CR! You actually can bag DLP's black levels. WOW, I never thought I'd be defending DLP as I am not a fan of it, but to criticise it's black levels to that degree...fair dinkum! Perhaps you can also find fault with this new 1080p DLP while you are it : AVSForum link it only has a measly 1900:1 CR...next model will be 4000:1.

As for real world viewing of the Qualia and your statements about Toy Story etc., are telling me you have actually viewed this? In my own viewing experience, I was hardly left wanting for CR, but I must be vastly inferior in my ability to judge it compared to an expert such as yourself. Mind you, I'm not exactly inexperienced either with CRT projection setups which includes having spent many hours a week viewing a friend's one, who's family used to own a HT/hifi business.

[Mojo-Man]

You can discount the other guy's view as much as you like (He's German..)

The bottom line is simply in the viewing. Put on the scenes I have noted and tell me what you see. If the Qualia is accurate it won't produce any light because that is what the medium (the film) calls for.

If it does produce a grey screen (and it does), it's no better than entry level LCD/DLP in its ability to produce true black when required by the medium to do so.

It hurts to say it - but it is the truth. Argue the toss any way you like - on/off CRT black-out is image-accurate - to discount it as you do speaks volumes for inexperience and lack of understanding of image quality, fidelity and image dynamics. You've never experienced CRT black-out have you?

The Qualia is a genuine break-through in digital performance. To get within reach of the Sony G90 CRT is a considerable achievement. But to not exceed CRT performance in all image aspects given the R&D, the price, the hyperbole and the zealotry evidenced in this thread, is however, profoundly dissappointing.

And you can find the post I quote by doing a search under Qualia CR - try the same at AVS.

The results may surprise you (but not me).

[OzHTfan]

You can discount the other guy's view as much as you like (He's German..)

The bottom line is simply in the viewing. Put on the scenes I have noted and tell me what you see. If the Qualia is accurate it won't produce any light because that is what the medium (the film) calls for.

If it does produce a grey screen (and it does), it's no better than entry level LCD/DLP in its ability to produce true black when required by the medium to do so.

It hurts to say it - but it is the truth. Argue the toss any way you like - on/off CRT black-out is image-accurate - to discount it as you do speaks volumes for inexperience and lack of understanding of image quality, fidelity and image dynamics. You've never experienced CRT black-out have you?

The Qualia is a genuine break-through in digital performance. To get within reach of the Sony G90 CRT is a considerable achievement. But to not exceed CRT performance in all image aspects given the R&D, the price, the hyperbole and the zealotry evidenced in this thread, is however, profoundly dissappointing.

And you can find the post I quote by doing a search under Qualia CR - try the same at AVS.

The results may surprise you (but not me).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

German he may be, but who is he? If you want to start talking Germans, let me introduce you to the reviewers at Cine4home.de, who are very well respected indeed. Sure enough they have also done a review : cine4home review . Let me match comments here starting with colour accuracy, here's what Ekkehart Schmitt says (apols for the rough babelfish translation):

"That the color temperature already permits "out OF the box" a good color representation, with the help of the many picture adjustment possibilities, which are put to the user into the hand, unbelievable precision can be said to realize itself leaves recapitulatory. Sony made its homework also here."

Here's what they said on CR, which makes your German mate look at little silly with his figure:

Sony indicates a contrast relationship of 2000:1 in the operating instructions of the Qualia. A good value, he should prove to be true in practice? Since manufacturers gladly the contrast data "beautiful", were we all the more surprised, as a "material" maximum contrast relationship of 2500:1 resulted in our measurements. To go over surely we repeated, always our measurement several times using different measuring instruments with same result. Even with Iris2 the projector supplies with to sufficient light in order appropriately to illuminate also larger picture diagonals to 3,5m. Only with still broader canvases, the iris should be further opened to favour of the brightness, which entails a certain contrast loss.

Here the measured contrast and lumen values in purchase to the iris screen in an overview:

Iris screen Contrast An/Aus Light achievement (lumen)

Out 1412:1 1550

1 1980:1 1049

2 2500:1 605 

Above values are reached under utilization of the complete brightness of the projector. After the color calibration however still impressing values remain:

Iris screen Contrast on/out

Out 1130:1

1 1500:1

2 1960:1

And finally, I think this statement says a hell of a lot in reference to Qualia vs DLP and the 'almighty' CRT doublestack:

And actually, anyway the image quality already breath-robbing was again increased: Minimal details and fine structures are worked out still more clearly, the picture almost surreal sharply however still absolutely naturally work. Each critic, who gets such a picture to face, becomes at the latest here admits that the Qualia is an image quality to showable, which not only almost all cinemas in shadow detail (apart from 70mm/Imax projections ones), but also in video projectors range at present, hardly any serious competition it has. Even a professional 3-Chip DLP cinema projector could not keep up despite higher light achievement with the Qualia in the direct comparison. And also a Sony Roehren-G90-Doublestack (two G90 project a picture to increase by the brightness and the contrast), can't hold a candle to the Qualia with HDTV according to data of Mr. Mayer, who actually owns a G90 double stack in his home cinema. Considering its that we got to face, we believe him this gladly.

After his G90 double stack and 3-Chip DLP was succeeded by it, Mr. Mayer again has to screw the measuring pole of the attainable image quality up further still. It is definitely one of the best home cinema pictures in Europe, but new projects are already planned: Next a Qualia double stack stands on the program to produce over a still higher picture brightness with full contrast from 2600:1 to and to Sony a 4K projector for next year finally already announced.

So there you have it, yet another positive review, this time by uber critical German HT reviewers. But again, as before, I'm sure the critical evaluation others in the HT field means little or nothing to you, German or otherwise...

Also, thanks for your patronising, I am well aware of CRT black out. I too also enjoy very good rear pro CRT black level performance on my tweaked Toshiba HD at the moment. BTW, no one was discounting ANSI CR vs ON/OFF CR for a minute, more correctly I was pointing out someone elses apparent mistake or confusion of the 2...

[tonyf]

"PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL"

[Mojo-Man]

They absolutely *were* discounting it;

"CRT purists will complain that Full Off still contains light, but this is a downfall of the lamp-based display, and will continue to be unless manufacturers begin gimmicking their way through it by closing off the iris completely to measure CR. This would do nothing for the picture, and certainly would only boost the contrast ratio measurement."

Wrong; It will do everything for the picture by doing what any amplifer should do; recreate information without adding (or distracting) anything to the sonic/visual image.

And it's not about being a CRT purist - it is about accuracy to the image - it's about being an image purist.

The Qualia for all its posturing fails on a fundamental given point of performance; the ability to render black when the projected image calls for it and it is no better than entry level budget projectors in this regard.

Now you can spin it, package it and rant about it any way you like - as I said earlier the Qualia represents a stunning digital achievement. It is however one that has a significant distance to go to achieve image-accuracy and all you need to do is play the nominated scenes and tell me what you see.

Reviews are what all reviews are; one person's view. There are many on the Qualia and not all are as glowing as the ones you selectively using to bolster a flawed argument. Most centre on the CR issues and running cost. At $3000US a lamp I'm not surprised.

Bottom line; a great projector; tarnished once again by the flaws of digital and limited CR - but if it pushes your buttons at its price point and running cost, be my guest.

Just don't invite me round when Nemo goes into deep dark water where no light exists - because your Qualia will be shining bright.

[ToeCutter]

OzHTFan it doesn't matter what you say. The troll has grabbed onto this 'black' issue with an iron grip and is using that one small component of projection displays to justify his whole discourse.

He must have an entire DVD collection of movies filmed only at night.

Or perhaps he is a fan of movies shot under bridges.

[Mojo-Man]

This ranks as the most ignorant post of a supposed projector enthusiast I have ever read.

Black is fundamental to image quality.

You either understand the point or you don't.

[ToeCutter]

If you want to read an ignorant post, I'd suggest you read the first post of this thread.

Oh wait, that's right - you wrote it!!!

Perhaps we can do a countback of all the followup posts from different people who recognise you as a troll.

[Santa1503559644]

Good God! This is still going on!

The term "troll" is being bandied about left, right & centre, yet it appears some people don't quite know what it means (and others are having pot & kettle problems - perhaps thats what you get when comparing "blacks" {boom boom!}).

Is it time to call "Purple!" yet, I wonder???

[OzHTfan]

He must have an entire DVD collection of movies filmed only at night.

Or perhaps he is a fan of movies shot under bridges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL man, that's a good one!

I have had my last go at it....arguing 'the toss' with Mojo that is. I no longer give a 'toss' frankly...

The first stage of Qualia install happens for me at the end of the week... I certainly won't be inviting Mojo-man around to watch a DVD as he's probably the sort of guy I'd end up punching and kicking out of my house after he's made some snide remarks about the way it's set up or what I own...

[Guest]

There are plenty of things fundamental to image quality Moron-Man, including black.

Take your head out from the river and get over it.