Tuesday's Stop work march for IR

[riley454]

...And I heard they were passing around copies of Mao Tse Tungs Little Red Book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Missed out on that unfortunately. But I did manage to get in on the handouts of "Mein Kampf" :ph34r:

[mello yello]

Missed out on that unfortunately. But I did manage to get in on the handouts of "Mein Kampf" :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mein Kampf?... Hitler? ... Germany?.............. World Cup?....Come on Aussie..

[RodN]

Also if you want an educated view read this report card from Sydney uni which was written by a bunch of professors. http://www.econ.usyd.edu.au/wos/IRchangesreportcard/

Particularly the conclusion "meeting the challenges" I think you'll find interesting.

[riley454]

Also if you want an educated view read this report card from Sydney uni which was written by a bunch of professors. http://www.econ.usyd.edu.au/wos/IRchangesreportcard/

Particularly the conclusion "meeting the challenges" I think you'll find interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Had a brief look and it's all very interesting reading. Just because someone has spent more time studying than me doesn't make their opinion more valid than mine. We can ALL hang our argument on something we had read somewhere. I ONLY want to see the facts! Give me access to the IR document and let me make my own decision. Not rattle off some other "experts" opinions from their own interpretation of what they have read in an SMS that their cousin copied from an email that their second-best mate heard about in the dunny at the local!

SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT!

And if no-one can, then stop making prejudiced opinions on something you haven't done your own rersearch on. If you haven't personally read the policy changes, then you are basing your thoughts on other people's opinions.

My opinions on IR have been well stated within this forum, although with regard to the latest proposed changes I have as little "informed" knowledge as 99% of the rest of the population!

SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT!

Let me make an opinion of my own, without rabbiting on about what the so-called university experts have to say. After all, most of them have never been out in the working man's world in their life

[RodN]

My opinions on IR have been well stated within this forum, although with regard to the latest proposed changes I have as little "informed" knowledge as 99% of the rest of the population!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But you still have an opinion. But you are crowing on about others having an opinion? What gives?

My opinion is based on what I have read in the newspapers and read in documents that I had referred to and others I haven't (my own research), what is yours based on? I dunno you talk about having unbiased and knowledgable opinions but when there's a respectable set of academics talking about it it's 'rabbiting on'. Read the papers man, google it, it isn't hard.

[Santa1503559644]

Had a brief look and it's all very interesting reading. Just because someone has spent more time studying than me doesn't make their opinion more valid than mine. We can ALL hang our argument on something we had read somewhere. I ONLY want to see the facts! Give me access to the IR document and let me make my own decision. Not rattle off some other "experts" opinions from their own interpretation of what they have read in an SMS that their cousin copied from an email that their second-best mate heard about in the dunny at the local!

SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT!

And if no-one can, then stop making prejudiced opinions on something you haven't done your own rersearch on. If you haven't personally read the policy changes, then you are basing your thoughts on other people's opinions.

My opinions on IR have been well stated within this forum, although with regard to the latest proposed changes I have as little "informed" knowledge as 99% of the rest of the population!

SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT!

Let me make an opinion of my own, without rabbiting on about what the so-called university experts have to say. After all, most of them have never been out in the working man's world in their life

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HERE's the document!

HERE's the document!

etc etc etc

LOUD ENOUGH???

[mello yello]

Had a brief look and it's all very interesting reading. Just because someone has spent more time studying than me doesn't make their opinion more valid than mine. We can ALL hang our argument on something we had read somewhere. I ONLY want to see the facts! Give me access to the IR document and let me make my own decision. Not rattle off some other "experts" opinions from their own interpretation of what they have read in an SMS that their cousin copied from an email that their second-best mate heard about in the dunny at the local!

SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT!

And if no-one can, then stop making prejudiced opinions on something you haven't done your own rersearch on. If you haven't personally read the policy changes, then you are basing your thoughts on other people's opinions.

My opinions on IR have been well stated within this forum, although with regard to the latest proposed changes I have as little "informed" knowledge as 99% of the rest of the population!

SHOW ME THE DOCUMENT!

Let me make an opinion of my own, without rabbiting on about what the so-called university experts have to say. After all, most of them have never been out in the working man's world in their life

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying I have to read an entire 600 page document to be able to form an opinion?.....getttt outta town.

....If Im 10 minutes into a bad movie and dont like it ...I dont have to wait for the credits to roll to walk out...after 10 minutes I already have an opinion.

.....and you know what they say about opinions...theyre like assholes....everyones got one. Youve got an asshole havent you riles? lol wheres your opinion?

All I had to hear about this 600 page document was the planned abolishment of unfair dismissal laws......

quote "Any business with less than 100 workers will be exempt from unfair dismissal obligations" ........its a well documented proposal...not heresay

might not seem like much but thats enough to get me riled (excuse that one)

[mello yello]

BTW do you think we could have ever made it to the World Cup without Penalty Rates

[stahc]

But you still have an opinion.  But you are crowing on about others having an opinion? What gives?

My opinion is based on what I have read in the newspapers and read in documents that I had referred to and others I haven't (my own research), what is yours based on? I dunno you talk about having unbiased and knowledgable opinions but when there's a respectable set of academics talking about it it's 'rabbiting on'. Read the papers man, google it, it isn't hard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think we've seen his unbiased informed opinions in another thread where he called all telstra workers bludgers. god only knows what he thinks about where i work. i can only guess that he shares the same opinion as my lovely HILLSONG member of federal par!liament and her fellow cronies.

[Aloysius]

i think we've seen his unbiased informed opinions in another thread where he called all telstra workers bludgers. god only knows what he thinks about where i work. i can only guess that he shares the same opinion as my lovely HILLSONG member of federal par!liament and her fellow cronies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmm,

Your comments don't sound at all biased chatswood63

[stahc]

Hmmmm,

Your comments don't sound at all biased chatswood63

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i've established where i stand. i'm not the one who called people cavemen for taking part in what they believe in. as i said before my workmates and i have already been victims of this government already so don't expect me to be complementary about them.

also not in best of moods as i'm choked up with the flu and on night shift..........not a good combo at the best of times

[DigitalObserver]

Sorry, have read these and stayed away, but . . . . . .

There are now many sets of comments on these laws. Few are favourable.

Many are made by community and institutional leaders.

The only formal support that I have seen comes from Govt. Ministers and the employer groups.

The proposed laws are a "belief of the executive government", not even the liberal/national parliamentarians, who didn't even see them until they were presented to the party room.

The proposed laws have not even been referred to Treasury for an examination of the potential economic impact. Leading economists within the universities etc. are critical.

They are questioned and doubted by church leaders, academics, commentators and now even Pru Goward not to mention hundreds and thousand of concerned workers.

Notwithstanding this our PM insists that all of these are uninformed comment and there fore that the sum of intelligence is to be found within our executive government.

How arrogant, how un Australian to deny the opinions of so many, to not even say, "we are going to debate this very fully and of course we will accept and amend those parts that are clearly against the will of the Australian people".

Trust us? Why?

Weapons of mass destruction

Tampa

Children overboard

No job loses at Telstra

Detention centres

Cornelia

and on and on. . . . .

Thank heavens for Barnaby and Fielding. Surely they will dig in on this one. Especially when Fielding gets his family impact study!!

But then, I suppose that those were a non core promise. . . . .

[Aloysius]

i've established where i stand. i'm not the one who called people cavemen for taking part in what they believe in. as i said before my workmates and i have already been victims of this government already so don't expect me to be complementary about them.

also not in best of moods as i'm choked up with the flu and on night shift..........not a good combo at the best of times

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Get better soon chatswood63!

I was just having a slight dig at your reference to someone - I don't know who they are - - your local member I think?

But that's fine - it's when folks - good honest folks - use words like crony - a denigrating term - I take issue - just as I do with equally decent folks whose use words like cavemen.

See, that goes away from the issue into making the other person inferior to us.

For me, only their argument can be attacked, not the person.

The extreme examples of this denigrating, belittling, and de humanising, are well known.

Rascist Japanese would call me a Gaijin - I think - means savage - because I'm not asian.

Extremist muslims might call me an infidel,

Germans called Jews and gypsies etc untermenschen - under men - inferior to Aryans.

So - I see warning signs - and have doubts about arguments when belittling terms are used.

How many references are made to Little Johnnie Howard?

What the hell has his physical dimensions got to do with his leadership (or not) of the country.

Anyway - baring my soul a little here, but hey I reckon I'm in good company!

Like I say - get well soon!

[Santa1503559644]

"Little" does not refer to Lil' Johnny's physical height.

Its all about his character.

BTW: Bob Hawke was physically shorter, from memory*...

____________________________________

*BTW: Haven't personally met Lil' Johnny (would he still be alive otherwise :ph34r: ), but Hawke was pretty small compared to Keating (tall and menacing) and Fraser (tall and not at all menacing). I believe Whitlam's reasonably tall too, but I've never met him! {And wouldn't want to!}

[Aloysius]

"Little" does not refer to Lil' Johnny's physical height. 

Its all about his character.

BTW: Bob Hawke was physically shorter, from memory*...

____________________________________

*BTW: Haven't personally met Lil' Johnny (would he still be alive otherwise    :ph34r: ), but Hawke was pretty small compared to Keating (tall and menacing) and Fraser (tall and not at all menacing). I believe Whitlam's reasonably tall too, but I've never met him! {And wouldn't want to!}

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't bullshit Santa!

[Santa1503559644]

Don't bullshit Santa!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying Bob was taller???

{Or are you trying to imply Howard isn't the pettiest, most worthless, meanest, moral vacuum in recent prime ministerial history???}

Clarify for me!

[Aloysius]

Are you saying Bob was taller??? 

{Or are you trying to imply Howard isn't the pettiest, most worthless, meanest, moral vacuum in recent prime ministerial history???}

Clarify for me!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"I believe Whitlam's reasonably tall too, but I've never met him! {And wouldn't want to!}"

He's bloody tall and you would like to meet him!!!

[riley454]

I know some of you have been waiting with baited breath for my response to some of the recent replies on this thread directed at my previous comments . And most could care less Unfortunately I have been unavailable due to working commitments

But you still have an opinion.  But you are crowing on about others having an opinion? What gives?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and if you've read my opinion on the proposed IR reforms, I have never agreed that they are the right reforms, but I have stated that we do require reforms.

My opinion is based on what I have read in the newspapers and read in documents that I had referred to and others I haven't (my own research), what is yours based on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never made an opinion on the details of the proposed policy because I don't know the facts.

I dunno you talk about having unbiased and knowledgable opinions but when there's a respectable set of academics talking about it it's 'rabbiting on'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Re-read that post "man" and the context those words were used!

I'd love to be able to present an unbiased educated opinion on the subject rather than an opinion based on the government/union/media spin.

and BTW I also didn't say the academics were 'rabbiting'on.

But thanks for your feedback anyway nobby. You have obviously made an opinion based on the bits and pieces that you choose to acknowledge from the sources that you feel comfortable with, so kudos to you "man"

HERE's the document!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks S,

Just got a copy mate.

Are you saying I have to read an entire 600 page document to be able to form an opinion?.....getttt outta town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nooo, you should base your opinions on whatever sources of information you believe to be completely true! Unfortunately I don't believe much of the government or union or media promotion on this subject(or many others) and that's why I, personally would prefer to see the document

.....and you know what they say about opinions...theyre like assholes....everyones got one. Youve got an asshole havent you riles? lol  wheres your opinion?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I have an asshole, it invaded my body and helped me formed my opinions. And I've only just got a copy of the proposed document so, no official opinion yet. However, my general opinion on Industrial Reform, still stands! We need reform because of the problems within certain sectors of the workplace

All I had to hear about this 600 page document was the planned abolishment of unfair dismissal laws......

quote "Any business with less than 100 workers will be exempt from unfair dismissal obligations" ........its a well  documented proposal...not heresay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll re-iterate for the millionth time...Employers are not in the business of hiring and firing for the sake of it. They want to make a buck. If you are performing to your full potential, then any dismissal laws (especially unfair) are irrelevant.

i think we've seen his unbiased informed opinions in another thread

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

refer above

where he called all telstra workers bludgers. god only knows what he thinks about where i work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Comment was quickly retracted and further discussed.

I do believe that there needs to be industrial reforms, mainly because there are certain sectors of our (communal) workforce that have been too militant in the past and have been all too willing to hold any and all state and feral governments to ransom, and are earning what many average workers would consider to be excessive wages for unequal production output!

I have never stated that I agreed with the current policy, because I haven't seen the unbiased facts. But I do believe that many 'average' or 'below average' workers will suffer because of the overindulgence of the few, in the past.

[RodN]

Ok so looks like we have reverted to pulling posts apart.

Had a brief look and it's all very interesting reading. Just because someone has spent more time studying than me doesn't make their opinion more valid than mine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes it does, particularly when their job is to dissect, disseminate and comment on public policy.

We can ALL hang our argument on something we had read somewhere. I ONLY want to see the facts! Give me access to the IR document and let me make my own decision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, lets all believe Riley the part time contractor full time legislative council, hell he knows all of the existing legislation, he and is completely aware of how to interpret legislation and is also completely understanding of the current environment.

Not rattle off some other "experts" opinions from their own interpretation of what they have read in an SMS that their cousin copied from an email that their second-best mate heard about in the dunny at the local!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read the papers each day, watch lateline most nights and have listened to a lot of talkback radio with debates between pollies, political analysts and the unions. I feel that through that I'm quite confidently understanding what has been proposed. I have read both sides of the story and have had plenty of educated discussions with my colleagues about it. Once again you are making assumptions and generalising about other people.

And if no-one can, then stop making prejudiced opinions on something you haven't done your own rersearch on. If you haven't personally read the policy changes, then you are basing your thoughts on other people's opinions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you think you can possibly come anywhere near the understanding of the experts? The earth is round is it not? Yet you haven't been to space? This is the very argument the Intelligent Designers are trying to pull.

My opinions on IR have been well stated within this forum, although with regard to the latest proposed changes I have as little "informed" knowledge as 99% of the rest of the population!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh ok so you again are assuming and generalising again that the whole population is uninformed.

Let me make an opinion of my own, without rabbiting on about what the so-called university experts have to say. After all, most of them have never been out in the working man's world in their life

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can have an opinion of your own yes, but as far as pretending that you can possibly have the insight that the media experts, polititians, union reps and whomever else is 'spining' on the reforms who knows. (And once again the assumption and generalisation that university experts are not working men).

Ok so here is an assumption of my own. You have gotten your back up because some militant came on to your site and told you what to do. You then assumed that the IR laws were good because they would break the back of the unions period. You then made a generalisation that it would bring back a few high payed construction workers back to reality in their pay packets. You did not think that it's major effect will be on nurses, teachers, office workers and retail assistants who do NOT get paid much already.

Oh man I'm just getting tired now. Good luck with your educated and experience opinion, I think I'll stick to listening to the experts.

[mello yello]

I know some of you have been waiting with baited breath for my response to some of the recent replies on this thread directed at my previous comments .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really

I'll re-iterate for the millionth time...Employers are not in the business of hiring and firing for the sake of it. They want to make a buck. If you are performing to your full potential, then any dismissal laws (especially unfair) are irrelevant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hear ya bro,. don’t take this personal and I know theres a lot of people that think like you and this is more to them than you…..oh and alantmorris who seems to think that 15 people who voted against unions in this poll somehow negates hundreds of thousands of people who actually marched…..get a calculator alantmorris and stop going to Peter Costellos School of Statistical Creativity and Factual Denial ( with all due respect of course)

Exactly the point…..they want to make a buck….dont be so naive to believe that if an unfair dismissal or two is what is needed to “make a buck “ that they wont resort to that.

One well publicised example of small business “making a buck” was the case of a woman who as soon as she fell pregnant got the sack. ( link can be provided on request).

However idealistic your views of employers may be does not change the fact that even if you ARE working at your FULL potential there is always some guy that wants to push you that bit harder …..take the Trucking Industry for example and in particular one of our well known supermarket chains who are notoriously pushing drivers BEYOND their limits.

You say we need reforms

Let me reiterate for the brazillionth time …..if the economy is in good shape, unemployment is low, and the Stock Market is in the black…..then why do we even need reforms. ( oh not the ole… if it aint broke don’t fix it line…yep that’s the one)

The only reason you seem to give is..... to take power away from the Unions.

Is that it? Is that what its all about?

Come on neocons come out from under your rocks. Out of your caves and into the light where we all can see you……tell us exactly why you want these reforms….convince me……tell me Im wrong that its not a simple power push to eliminate opposition for what you cream about in your sleep…as you hold your wet little pussies at night and dream of crushing the bad ole union cats so that you can advance on to a bigger better new world order overseen by the all seeing brown eye…. Illuminatus Rectum.

I need something a bit more meaty than “how do you know you haven’t read it”

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

[riley454]

Ok so here is an assumption of my own. You have gotten your back up because some militant came on to your site and told you what to do. You then assumed that the IR laws were good because they would break the back of the unions period.  You then made a generalisation that it would bring back a few high payed construction workers back to reality in their pay packets. You did not think that it's major effect will be on nurses, teachers, office workers and retail assistants who do NOT get paid much already.

Oh man I'm just getting tired now. Good luck with your educated and experience opinion, I think I'll stick to listening to the experts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, if you want to dissect, check the dates of dissection. I made strong opinions (within this forum)regarding unions and this topic way before I was approached on site. I had my "back" up on unions because of their irrelevance in my previous workplaces. Believe it or not, I was once a member of the (former)ABEU which represented bank workers. They decided they were not strong enough alone, so they formed alliances with other financial sectors(insurance, investments, etc) to try and become a stronger union. All around the time when the BLF had reached its demise through the strongarm tactics that its last leader had encouraged the workers to follow. (Late 1980s) Several years before I left the banking industry, I formally resigned from the union because I was not happy about the stance they were taking on issues that were irrelevant to the day to day running of the workers jobs. Issues that most workers weren't even concerned about. But the union had to make their point and create issues!

When I decided that this wasn't the industry I wanted to be involved in,(after 10 years, and first job out of high school) and changed to employment in the production side of the construction industry, and represented by the AWU, (I chose to be a member to obtain the best EBA for the workers) it wasn't long before I was unimpressed by the union representation of the employees in the organisation where i was working, and resigned my membership!

It is not a recent issue that has formed my opinion of the union movement, and it is not the union movement in general that is distasteful to me. Many people need some form of representation to get what they should be entitled to, but some of the union movement has got everyone elses "back" up, and this has led to the questionable reforms that JWH is proposing.

After a major change in profession, and being involved in the production of construction products,

[stahc]

I do believe that there needs to be industrial reforms, mainly because there are certain sectors of our (communal) workforce that have been too militant in the past and have been all too willing to hold any and all state and feral governments to ransom, and are earning what many average workers would consider to be excessive wages for unequal production output!

well i guess that would be me and my workmates but times have changed and it was certainly before my time. lot of people with long memories would like to get us. yes i make good money and no i dont think that it's exessive. given the amount of time at night and weekend i spend away from my wife and little girl i think that i'm short changed. that's why i'm so cranky about this f wit and his changes that would seek to reduce the compensation for working nights and weekends..........and don't give me that kevin andrews crap about just getting another job!

[Aloysius]

Ok so looks like we have reverted to pulling posts apart.

Yes it does, particularly when their job is to dissect, disseminate and comment on public policy.

Ok, lets all believe Riley the part time contractor full time legislative council, hell he knows all of the existing legislation, he and is completely aware of how to interpret legislation and is also completely understanding of the current environment.

I read the papers each day, watch lateline most nights and have listened to a lot of talkback radio with debates between pollies, political analysts and the unions. I feel that through that I'm quite confidently understanding what has been proposed.  I have read both sides of the story and have had plenty of educated discussions with my colleagues about it.  Once again you are making assumptions and generalising about other people.

If you think you can possibly come anywhere near the understanding of the experts?  The earth is round is it not? Yet you haven't been to space?  This is the very argument the Intelligent Designers are trying to pull.

Ahh ok so you again are assuming and generalising again that the whole population is uninformed.

You can have an opinion of your own yes, but as far as pretending that you can possibly have the insight that the media experts, polititians, union reps and whomever else is 'spining' on the reforms who knows. (And once again the assumption and generalisation that university experts are not working men).

Ok so here is an assumption of my own. You have gotten your back up because some militant came on to your site and told you what to do. You then assumed that the IR laws were good because they would break the back of the unions period.  You then made a generalisation that it would bring back a few high payed construction workers back to reality in their pay packets. You did not think that it's major effect will be on nurses, teachers, office workers and retail assistants who do NOT get paid much already.

Oh man I'm just getting tired now. Good luck with your educated and experience opinion, I think I'll stick to listening to the experts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Problem is Nobby:

You are choosing who you call an expert - generally someone who's opinions more closely coincides with your own.

You can't seriously believe that only one side of an argument has " EXPERTS"

Stop making your educated judgements about Riley - he is not the argument!

I reckon we will all look back and see that these changes were a good thing.

Don't tell me 600 pages are all about smacking unionists, look forwards not backwards.

[Aloysius]

Not really 

I hear ya bro,. don’t take this personal and I know theres a lot of people that think like you and this is more to them than you…..oh and alantmorris who seems to think that 15 people who voted against unions in this poll somehow negates hundreds of thousands of people who actually marched…..get a calculator alantmorris  and stop going to Peter Costellos School of Statistical Creativity and Factual Denial    ( with all due respect of course)

Exactly the point…..they want to make a buck….dont be so naive to believe that if an unfair dismissal or two is what is needed to “make a buck “ that they wont resort to that.

One well publicised example  of small business  “making a buck” was the case of a woman who as soon as she fell pregnant got the sack. ( link can be provided on request).

However  idealistic your views of employers may be does not change the fact that even if you ARE working at your FULL potential there is always some guy that wants to push you that bit harder …..take the Trucking Industry for example and in particular one of our well known supermarket chains who are notoriously pushing drivers BEYOND their limits.

You say we need reforms

Let me reiterate for the brazillionth time …..if the economy is in good shape, unemployment is low, and the Stock Market is in the black…..then why do we even need reforms.  ( oh not the ole… if it aint broke don’t fix it line…yep that’s the one)

The only reason you seem to give is..... to take power away from the Unions.

Is that it? Is that what its all about?

Come on neocons come out from under your rocks. Out of your caves and into the light where we all can see you……tell us exactly why you want these reforms….convince me……tell me Im wrong that its not a simple power push to eliminate opposition for what you cream about in your sleep…as you hold your wet little pussies at night and dream of crushing the bad ole union cats so that you can advance on to a bigger better new world order overseen by the all seeing brown eye…. Illuminatus Rectum.

I need something a bit more meaty than “how do you know you haven’t read it”

:ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mello - mate!

Your post is not worthy of you - there you go again, all angry and making unecessary attacks on people - what's your problem? You can't undo

You don't like the mini poll result -so it's wrong - and anyone who points to it is wrong too - because hey -YOU SAY SO.

Not only that you make the amazing leap of logic that I compare streetmarching folks with poll respondents.

How quaint - again - make a straw man - yourself - and knock him down yourself - how convincing!

You definitly need something more meaty but I'm at a loss to know where to begin.

[Enforcer]

I took part in the day of action and proud I did.

In fact I was one of those criminals who broke the law and picketed the M4 and should be arrested according to Debnam.

I am a union delegate and proud of it I even have a poster in my front window that says HOWARDS BILL KILLS thats how passionate I am about the new IR reforms and I don't care who knows.

Why do we need these reforms ? we have had a sustained period of economic growth and when you couple this with the almost non existant industrial actions of the past decade this new bill cannot be justified.

The right to strike has allready been removed from us with only 2 exceptions and disputes are handled by the arbitration commision.

I agree the unfair dismissal laws needed clarification and amended but this bill offers no security of employment and conditions for anyone!

Almost 1/3 of my wages comes from penalty rates and shift allowances and there is no way I will do the job I do for less.

Our bosses are champing at the bit to test the water once this bill passes as our EBA is up just after christmas.

Up till now employers have hated us because we use workcover legislation to pressure them. With the new bill and union rights of entry severly curtailed, safety will again be compromised in key areas as workers will not be able to complain to bosses about safety issues for fear of retribution.

The company I work for paid an employee a huge sum of money to leave as he insisted everything be done to the letter of the law regarding safety , as workers we are responsible if ANYTHING goes wrong. Our insurance company lawyers have made sure of that.

Anyone who thinks that this bill will do anything to improve our economy has got to be kidding.

What happened in Victoria under Kennett when that Govt introduced similar laws ?

Real wages went down and living standards suffered as a result, unemployment went up as well. I believe the only other thing that went up were business profits but goods and services did not go down in price.

We cannot and will never be able to compete with China so why are we leaving our workplaces wide open for exploitation by rogue bosses who will try.

I am 44 and this legislation probably won't have much of an impact on me as I am quite well off allready and can almost retire now, But what kind of workplace are we going to leave to our children ?

My son is 20 and at uni but he has a part time job working under an AWA when I saw it I didn't want him to take the job but he was willing to have a go.

His awa calls for him to work at least 24 Saturdays per year.

My son plays cricket and wanted summer saturdays off so he worked every sat during winter doing other guys shifts for them. When he told his boss he wasn't going to work and more sats till end of summer he hit the roof. Then boss said they didn't count as they wern't ROSTERED saturdays.

Cheers