New To Forum :)

[mgrobins]

Hi,

first off... great forum . I've been lurking here awhile and decided to join as i'm geting back into HT now and will be redoing some/all of my setup.

I'm looking to make the move to a pj and have decided a DLP like the BenQ 8720 would be suitable. Not up to date on screens yet but I do have some queries regarding DVD players and upsampling. Im in Adelaide and would like to know where some good showrooms are (HN, Grenfell hifi are probably the 2 I know of. maybe truscotts too?). A store where people know what they are saying would be good....

Some newer DVD players offer upsampling to 720p which would be great for the 8720 however i'm also seeing comments regarding discrete video units like the VP30.

Am I likely to see a difference in quality using the VP30 over a set top dvd that's upsampling the image? TV, DVD, maybe console games would be all that I view on the pj.

Also... HDMi and component. I currently use component for my digital stuff (TV/DVD). is there a real gain in going with HDMI? I ask this as the cabling could be a significant cost that I might otherwise avoid!

I'm aiming to add a media room to my household arrangements but because I rent I won't be able to do too much customisation (would still look at ceiling mounting a pj for long term rental but i'll only be in my current location for another 6 months). Are there any good guides on here discussing how to make the best of your setup in that arrangement? Probably more room discussion etc than calibration of audio.

If I were to get a pj now before I move i'd have to shelf mount at the back of my lounge. that's about 6m to the wall . What's a good way to overcome that? (I considered a stand and screen like you see in schools).

On the Audio side i'll be staying with my Yamaha 795 receiver (it's a 5.1 system) powering my B&W sub and sonique speakers (SAV2's and 3's). They put out solid quality sound and aren't too obtrusive in size. Good old Aussie manufacturing too .

A few questions in there sorry.... just trying to tidy up my understanding of some new technologies and options .

[ajm1503559545]

All excellent choices

By all account the VP30 is the shizzle. Preacher can add some real detail but if you're planning on using more that one source device (ie DVD player, DTV set top box, PVR etc) then it might be a worthwhile investment.

HDMI for your source devices is, at the moment, handy but (IMO) not yet essential. Having an HDMI input on your display probably is so you're not limited in the devices you can plug into it.

Until you run into things like HD-DVD and Blu-ray (which may or may not require HDMI to handle the HDCP, ICT flags and other lunatic DRM ideas) I think you can get by with component source devices just fine. Like I said it's very handy but not completely essential just yet.

The same time there are plenty of bargain priced (~$200-$250) DVD players getting around these days with HDMI connections and upscaling but to be honest (again IMHO) they're mostly rubbish features added to reasonable devices. For half the price you can get roughly the same peformance but sans bells and whistles.

The Oppo players seem to be a bit of an exception and have some fans (and fanboys ) but there doesn't seem to be a local supplier and that mean importing from the US. There are two models, the older of which seems a good match for the VP30 as it outputs 576i natively. The newer one doesn't.

If you go up the range into the $1000 mark and into player like the Denon 2910 and Pioneer 969 then (as you'd expect) the quality improves considerably.

With the screen distance you're going to have to deal with that in some way or have a screen that can cope with a 200" image Perhaps a stand, as you suggested, would be the best idea.

Best of luck with the hunting.

[rezok]

If you look to a HD box, you MUST get hdmi/dvi..

The difference when switching between it and component is startling.

I assume the DVD player is the same as Ive never tried component.

My oppo/lg HD box combo looks great so go hdmi where you can, even through a switchbox, which is now $90 on ebay.com.au

[The_Preacher1973]

  ajm said:

All excellent choices

By all account the VP30 is the shizzle. Preacher can add some real detail but if you're planning on using more that one source device (ie DVD player, DTV set top box, PVR etc) then it might be a worthwhile investment.

Separate VP's such as the VP 30 will do little to improve DVD (film/movie) viewing but newer VP's (such as the VP30 with the optional ABT102 card) will help siginifantly with video material (TV/sports/concerts).

  ajm said:

HDMI for your source devices is, at the moment, handy but (IMO) not yet essential. Having an HDMI input on your display probably is so you're not limited in the devices you can plug into it.

Until you run into things like HD-DVD and Blu-ray (which may or may not require HDMI to handle the HDCP, ICT flags and other lunatic DRM ideas) I think you can get by with component source devices just fine. Like I said it's very handy but not completely essential just yet.

I have mixed feelings on this one. I agree with ajm in that I personally don't see any real difference but a lot of others do. In theory as you are removing 2 transcoding stages the PQ should be improved. It also depends on whether the scaler in you display is better than the one in the DVD player.

  ajm said:

The same time there are plenty of bargain priced (~$200-$250) DVD players getting around these days with HDMI connections and upscaling but to be honest (again IMHO) they're mostly rubbish features added to reasonable devices. For half the price you can get roughly the same peformance but sans bells and whistles.

The Oppo players seem to be a bit of an exception and have some fans (and fanboys ) but there doesn't seem to be a local supplier and that mean importing from the US. There are two models, the older of which seems a good match for the VP30 as it outputs 576i natively. The newer one doesn't.

I think you may have this barseackwards ajm. I think the new Oppo is that one that can pass 576i via HDMI.

  ajm said:

If you go up the range into the $1000 mark and into player like the Denon 2910 and Pioneer 969 then (as you'd expect) the quality improves considerably.

Yep. Generally I'd agree with this and wouldn't recommend anything less than a Marantz DV-6600 for a PJ of this quality. Foggy, however, owns both the Pioneer 969 and the old Oppo an claims the Oppo beats the Pioneer in side by side testing. (This was the old Oppo as I believe the newer model doesn;t have as good a deinterlacer.)

Not sure whther I'd go along with this though as the Oppo uses the Faroudja chip (as do the Denons) which suffer from macro blocking. One of my pet hates (right up there with motion judder).

  ajm said:

With the screen distance you're going to have to deal with that in some way or have a screen that can cope with a 200" image Perhaps a stand, as you suggested, would be the best idea.

As ajm says, your screen size is going to be a bit too large with the 8720 at that throw distance if you go for a rear shelf mount. If you're keen on going the rear shelf option, a projector with a long throw such as the Sanyo Z4 is an option. It will produce between a 94 and 187 inch picture at 5.75m. If you're set on the 8720 (and by all counts it is a bloody good choice if you're not effected by RBE), then I think you're best option is to go for a coffee table mount. I'm looking to do the same thing myself as my current living arrangements don't offer me too many alternatives. My idea is to put a large rug/carpet (I already have one that's 5m x 5m ) up against the front wall and run a cable underneath it back to the cofee table. I'll cut a small hole in the carpet (more of a slit and as it's deep pile carpet it should be invisible)and bring the cable up through the coffee table. It should be reasonably tidy. In this case I'll be running an HDMI cable as its thinner and easier to hide under the carpet.

[ajm1503559545]

Thanks for setting me straight Preach. Been needing this a bit lately . It's the naming of the Oppo that threw me - the 970HD being newer than the 971H.

In my experience the difference between good HDMI output and good component output is enough (but maybe only just) to justify going down this path.

The truth though is that most of the implementations of HDMI aren't all that good so the difference is usually marginal at best. At least that's in my experience anyway.

For the moment at least I'm planning to stick to the HTPC my main source but the Oppo player is a tempting prospect.

[The_Preacher1973]

  ajm said:

The truth though is that most of the implementations of HDMI aren't all that good so the difference is usually marginal at best. At least that's in my experience anyway.

Very true. Some of them seem to suffer from colour space issues which can result in elevated black levels. I think it probably has something to do with the fact that HDMI signals can either be at RGB level or component level (DVI is RGB level only, HDMI and DVI are not always the same). If you send it at component level to your display, the display will have to transcode it back to RGB before displaying it. So once again it probably depends whether or not the transcoder in your DVD player is better than the one in your display.

As you're using a HTPC, you wil always be sending it at RGB level regardless of whether you use analogue HD15 or DVI.

(Just thinking out loud here, I could be barking up the wrong tree)

[Foggy]

Just to add my 2 cents...

The 8720 is a good choice for you because it offers better Lens Shift and Zoom than most other DLP projectors. So it offers you more flexibility when you move house. It is a BIG unit though, slightly bigger than a typical AV receiver.

As far as DVD players and the Preachers comment about Macroblocking; Yes the Oppo 971H does have more macroblocking than the Pioneer 969, but the Oppo did provide better shadow detail and didn't crush the blacks as much as the Pioneer.

When I did the side by side test, we were using JPP's 971H. I have now bought a 970HD for use as a 576i transport into the VP30, and from my first brief impressions, the 970HD is definitely not as good as the 971H for upscaling and de-interlacing... but it does offer 576i via HDMI which the 971H does not (576i via Component only).

If I were buying everything from scratch today, I'd probably go for the Marantz DV-9600 as the DVD player and forget about the VP30. I believe the new Marantz uses the same video processing hardware/software as the VP30 and also doubles as a great CD player.

One benefit the VP30 offers though is that you can get away with running just one HDMI cable to the projector because it is a video switching hub. There's a few AVRs on the market today that will also do this function, so it may not be so crucial for you. If you didn't have a HDMI switching AVR or a VP30 (or VP20), then you would need to run additional cables to the projector for each input device. This will add cost as well as making it harder to hide the cables discreetly.

If I couldn't ceiling mount, I'd do what the Preacher has suggested and build a coffee table for it. The 8720 is already very quiet, so you don't really need an enclosed box like with many CRT projectors. This means that you won't need to bother with exhaust fans in the boxed coffee table to extract the hot air. You could probably even get away with just using an off-the-shelf coffee table, assuming you don't have any rug rats that will keep bumping into it... it's not as "robust" as a CRT projector.

[mgrobins]

  Foggy said:

Just to add my 2 cents...

If I were buying everything from scratch today, I'd probably go for the Marantz DV-9600 as the DVD player and forget about the VP30. I believe the new Marantz uses the same video processing hardware/software as the VP30 and also doubles as a great CD player.

One benefit the VP30 offers though is that you can get away with running just one HDMI cable to the projector because it is a video switching hub. There's a few AVRs on the market today that will also do this function, so it may not be so crucial for you. If you didn't have a HDMI switching AVR or a VP30 (or VP20), then you would need to run additional cables to the projector for each input device. This will add cost as well as making it harder to hide the cables discreetly.

If I couldn't ceiling mount, I'd do what the Preacher has suggested and build a coffee table for it. The 8720 is already very quiet, so you don't really need an enclosed box like with many CRT projectors. This means that you won't need to bother with exhaust fans in the boxed coffee table to extract the hot air. You could probably even get away with just using an off-the-shelf coffee table, assuming you don't have any rug rats that will keep bumping into it... it's not as "robust" as a CRT projector.

Thanks all for the input .

Foggy, it was your review of your pj and comments/discussion by Preacher etc plus your Blog that got me moving more toward the 8720.

I had considered a coffee table setup and that could be an excellent choice where I am now. Would need to be 2 level or have some sort of shroud to protect it though. I don't like the idea of someone spilling a drink all over my $5k pj!! That means possible heating issues and maybe a requirement for a fan if it's a close fitting shroud .

I can see the value of using a single HDMI cable in that setup to keep things neat (also if I had a long cable run digital would be a better choice). If I have only 2 sources a good DVD player and a HD STB would save me the cost of purchasing a VP30.

Need to investigate more on the RGB/component level output though.

also... need to find somewhere to offload my 76cm WS sony CRT if i get a pj for my current rental (shame they aren't worth squat anymore!). Anyone need an 80kg anchor for their yacht?

If anyone can host pics of their coffeetable setup for me to get some ideas that would be awesome . or suggest a place in Adelaide where I can talk with folks about this kind of thing.

As far as the upscaling - why only go to 520?? don't some DVD players & units like the VP30 offer DVD at 720p? I thought this would better utilise my pj.

The z4 is LCD isn't it? I'm sensitive to screen-door effects so this is a trade-off. I understand lcd's at the lower price brackets offer better throw distances though...

[The_Preacher1973]

  Foggy said:

If I were buying everything from scratch today, I'd probably go for the Marantz DV-9600 as the DVD player and forget about the VP30. I believe the new Marantz uses the same video processing hardware/software as the VP30 and also doubles as a great CD player.

True. As I mentioned, external VP's are really only useful for improving "off air" broadcasts. (Although the new generation of VP's will also help with the new HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players at least initially until the players and displays get onboard processing that can handle 1080P).

I always send a 576P signal via HDMI/DVI directly from my Marantz 9500 to the HD15 input on my PJ. I send the 576i signal from the DVD-R via component to the CS-HD or Faroudja, deinterlace it to 576P and then send to the PJ via RGBHV.

People have no idea just how good SD-DVD can look until they're seen it on something like the Marantz 9500/9600 (especially when displayed on a "robust" projector ). Highly recommended.

[The_Preacher1973]

  mgrobins said:

If anyone can host pics of their coffeetable setup for me to get some ideas that would be awesome . or suggest a place in Adelaide where I can talk with folks about this kind of thing.

This one's a bit extravagant but I've always liked the concept:

Vutec Retracta Table Lift

Personally I'm planning on building one for the NEC GP-5000 in about a months time. I plan to use the large pieces of polished pine from Bunnings to make the top, bottom and sides. I intend to install some quiet PC 120mm fans to exhast the air and power them from a fanless PC power supply. I won't get it completed but at least I'll see whether the concept has legs or not.

[mgrobins]

  The_Preacher1973 said:

This one's a bit extravagant but I've always liked the concept:

Vutec Retracta Table Lift

Personally I'm planning on building one for the NEC GP-5000 in about a months time. I plan to use the large pieces of polished pine from Bunnings to make the top, bottom and sides. I intend to install some quiet PC 120mm fans to exhast the air and power them from a fanless PC power supply. I won't get it completed but at least I'll see whether the concept has legs or not.

that is a nifty idea.... i'd certainly consider building osmething along those lines and even *maybe* buying one for the right table setup.

I could alsways build a pj box to slot inside my table vertically (place a chute in the table centre) and then use an airbag with a foot-pump to raise and lower it

A table with a "2 tiered" setup would be ok too if I made it so that the front could slide (revealing the lens and pj, maybe on a moving shelf to allow it to be shifted out slightly for ventilation) and maybe a drop-down segment behind or slide that would open the rear and allow ventillation during use. Guess it depends if front/rear ventillation is sufficient for these things...

For a 90" - 100" screen what sort of table height is recommended for mounting a projector? it has to allign with the base of the screen doesn't it?

Preach - fan selection will be important there. The right ones will actually run off a 5v line (most 120mm are 12v rated - can run less as long as the duty cycle allows them to start spinning). Baffles or firing air aay from your saeting would help heaps too (maybe you know all this - not telling you to suck eggs )

I don't know a lot about pj's but I know a lot about computers and silencing electronics heh.

Got a few good ideas from you lot and now have lots of reading to do!

[The_Preacher1973]

  mgrobins said:

For a 90" - 100" screen what sort of table height is recommended for mounting a projector? it has to allign with the base of the screen doesn't it?

No. It depends on the projector and the amount of lens shift you are prepared to use. Check projectorcentral.com and projectorreviews.com. They ususlly mention the amount of picture offset in their reviews.

[mgrobins]

  The_Preacher1973 said:

No. It depends on the projector and the amount of lens shift you are prepared to use. Check projectorcentral.com and projectorreviews.com. They ususlly mention the amount of picture offset in their reviews.

Well that was worth following up on more - thanks for the heads up!

Seems I can actually shelf mount it in my current location as the max range for 100" screen is 17.7 feet (5.4m). That's pretty darn good and fits exactly in my living arrangements of about 5.75m wall to wall.

Lens shift allows for the pj to be about 12 - 15cm above the screen shelf mounted (i'm guessing less on a table due to the acute angle).

Knowing this now i'm less inclined to put off my HT upgrades and playing around until I move house at the end of the year... (still need to figure out what to do with the damned tv since it's smack where the screen would be).

I'm somewhat a perfectionist when it comes to getting the most out of what I buy and i'm wondering if there is a real difference in what the VP30 can provide vs the HD+ when connected to the likes of the 8720. THe vp30 costs about $500 more from my casual searching and i'm unsure if it's overkill.

The Marantz DV9600 unit looks nice as a 'all in one' option for de-interlacing and upsampling but some of the reviews were not kind to it in regard to the flexibility it provides. I can't help thinking that a DVDO unit and decent DVD player could be had for less and provide a better outcome.

[norpus]

  Foggy said:

If I were buying everything from scratch today, I'd probably go for the Marantz DV-9600 as the DVD player and forget about the VP30. I believe the new Marantz uses the same video processing hardware/software as the VP30 and also doubles as a great CD player.

One benefit the VP30 offers though is that you can get away with running just one HDMI cable to the projector because it is a video switching hub. There's a few AVRs on the market today that will also do this function, so it may not be so crucial for you. If you didn't have a HDMI switching AVR or a VP30 (or VP20), then you would need to run additional cables to the projector for each input device. This will add cost as well as making it harder to hide the cables discreetly.

I played with my brothers Marantz DV9600 in May.

A lovely unit for video - esp with the 1080p output option for future (not that he had a 1080p display tho)

As a CD player, it was not preferred to his 5+ year old Cary DVD player for 2ch audio. So I'd reckon a dedicated CD player would still be better for 2ch

[Foggy]

Here's a link with some photos to a home-made coffee table from one of the CRT enthusiasts:

http://www.htcentral.net/index.php?showtopic=4273

mgrobins, I have to stress that something like the VP30 is not for everyone;

- if you like to tinker and change settings on a popular basis, then it might be for you

- if you like to apply firmware upgrades on a regular basis, then it might be for you

- if you don't mind being a beta tester and enjoying all the pleasures that HDCP has to offer (note: sarcasm), then it could be for you!

Also keep in mind that the VP30 will not offer you as much if you're intending to have HD source material like Digital FTA TV, or HD-DVD. It really only comes into play for SD and poorer quality source material.

I'd also be very surprised if many people would see rainbows on an 8720. The default speed setting for the colour wheel is 5x, but it can be set to 6x. An LCD projector like the Z4 will definitely not have RBE, but you will have motion blur and poorer blacks that is part & parcel of LCD technology. But if I were to go down the path of LCD projectors, of all the ones on the market today, I'd go for the Z4 for its all around ability.

[The_Preacher1973]

  mgrobins said:

I'm somewhat a perfectionist when it comes to getting the most out of what I buy and i'm wondering if there is a real difference in what the VP30 can provide vs the HD+ when connected to the likes of the 8720. THe vp30 costs about $500 more from my casual searching and i'm unsure if it's overkill.

The Marantz DV9600 unit looks nice as a 'all in one' option for de-interlacing and upsampling but some of the reviews were not kind to it in regard to the flexibility it provides. I can't help thinking that a DVDO unit and decent DVD player could be had for less and provide a better outcome.

I can't recommend going for either the HD+ or the VP 30 without the ABT card as they are just Sil 504 based deinterlacers. If you look around you can pick up a CS-HD, or or even a CS-2 for about $300 USD which will do nearly the same job. You must remeber that your PJ will have a built in deinterlacer and scaler. It's pointless paying $2000 for an external box that isn't that much better than the one in the display

You keep mentioning using these devices in combination with a DVD player. They will do bugger all for PQ coming from a DVD player. You would definitely be better to put the money into a good DVD player if that's your priority.

[Foggy]

  The_Preacher1973 said:

You must remeber that your PJ will have a built in deinterlacer and scaler. It's pointless paying $2000 for an external box that isn't that much better than the one in the display

Good point Preach. The 8720 already has Faroudja DCDi video processing.

[The_Preacher1973]

  Foggy said:

Good point Preach. The 8720 already has Faroudja DCDi video processing.

Well in that case HD+ would certainly be a waste of money. I'd recommend going for a good DVD player and saving your pennies until the next gen processors mature a bit.

[mgrobins]

  Foggy said:

mgrobins, I have to stress that something like the VP30 is not for everyone;

- if you like to tinker and change settings on a popular basis, then it might be for you

- if you like to apply firmware upgrades on a regular basis, then it might be for you

- if you don't mind being a beta tester and enjoying all the pleasures that HDCP has to offer (note: sarcasm), then it could be for you!

Also keep in mind that the VP30 will not offer you as much if you're intending to have HD source material like Digital FTA TV, or HD-DVD. It really only comes into play for SD and poorer quality source material.

I'd also be very surprised if many people would see rainbows on an 8720. The default speed setting for the colour wheel is 5x, but it can be set to 6x. An LCD projector like the Z4 will definitely not have RBE, but you will have motion blur and poorer blacks that is part & parcel of LCD technology. But if I were to go down the path of LCD projectors, of all the ones on the market today, I'd go for the Z4 for its all around ability.

Well I guess I am all of those things. Computers/HT/cars and anything I can tinker with like that are my hobby I guess. I get as much joy from tinkering with my setup as sitting down to realise the benefits (or realising I need to fix what I just messed with ).

First I appologise if i'm hammering you guys with questions but i'm low on options here in Adelaide when it comes to finding stores to demo this stuff and speak wth staff I trust to give an accurate answer.

I am hearing what you say though and just to be clear I understand the technical details involved here (I'm a comp systems/comms engineer), but the technical specs don't equate to a real impression of what really gives the best benefit or outcomes which is where my lack of HT experience seems to be hurting me ...

Foggy, If the PE8720 does a standup job at upsampling DVD to 720p what real benefit will a discrete processor like the HD+ or VP30 give me? Is it going to improve low res sources to a significantly higher standard than the pj's inbuilt scaler?. I also notice people demo nice looking images but i'm afraid I can't find any info on how the pj will do with a crap dvd. I think the mark of a good product is one that can do wonders with bad material .

With a HD display that can upsample to HD resolutions.... am I better off just getting a HD-STB and a good dvd player (eg DV9500)? I will watch sport, some free-to-air shows/movies, and may have foxtel one day but primarilly my source will be DVD for movies. If I can get the same quality of output and save a few $k by skipping the discrete video processor that would be a nice option. Seems i'll need a quality DVD player to get the best result anyway as the scaling/processing unit can only use the data its fed....

More ranting sorry... just trying to get a feel for what combination of products will give what outcomes before I open my wallet

I do appreciate the advice so far too!

[Foggy]

ok, here's my point form summary from what I have seen so far:

• The VP30 does a great job of cleaning up poor quality source (e.g. compressed DVDs, DivXs, poor quality DTV etc.)
  
• The Faroudja video processor was top of the heap a few years ago, and is still very good, but you do get the odd bit of macroblocking
  
• Every 720p projector will scale the incoming source to 720p, some just do it better than others. i.e. the Faroudja processor in the 8720 costs more and is better than the processors in 720p LCD projectors
  
• The benefit of the VP30 over the Faroudja processor is not night & day, you'll have to look for it, but you will notice the difference
  
• You will really need to get the optional ABT-102 SD de-interlacing card for the VP30 to get any great benefit from it over the Faroudja processor
  
• The VP30 is not for the feint-hearted. It requires significant expertise to get the most out of it. You will have to invest a significant amount of time in learning what many of the options mean. I would highly recommend obtaining the services of an ISF Calibrator... but that's going to be a challenge when you're in Adelaide!
  
• The reason that I bought the Oppo 970HD is that it is one of the few players that will output an unprocessed 576i signal via HDMI. This allows the VP30 + ABT-102 to do all the interlacing and scaling
  
• There are still many bugs with the VP30... you will almost certainly have problems, particularly with regard to HDMI switching, audio dropouts, and HDCP. This is not all necessarily the fault of DVDO, but is a result of interoperability issues due to differing interpretations of the standard by various manufacturers. Note also that there is currently no HDMI/HDCP certification programme to ensure that manufacturers are developing compliant software
  
• The Marantz 9600 is a great player, and yes, it's not as good as a dedicated $4000 Cary CD player, but it's still miles ahead of any other combined CD/DVD player. It doesn't sound like you're heavily into 2-channel audio anyway .... for the time being
  
• Your equipment decision should be influenced by when you will buy a HD-DVD or BluRay player, and whether you already have a large SD DVD collection that you want to continue to enjoy
  
• A HD STB is a given, but remember that much of the content, even on HD channels is still only SD.
  

Sorry for the point form brain dump, but whatever equipment you choose from what has been discussed so far will still yield a most impressive picture.

BTW, you can always advertise your CRT TV on these forums, there's a lot of people on here who still swear by their supremacy for absolute picture quality.

[mgrobins]

Thanks Foggy for the brain dump

It concisely answered and clarified some areas of confusion for me.

Is there a list of current DVD players floating around that indicates what "unprocessed" outputs are available on what models? I expect i'll be going with HDMI and if it's like a lot of other digital stuff my concern is manufacturers always want to fiddle with the output signal somehow . Is it wrong to assume that I can at least get native DVD res at the component or HDMI output to send to a scaler/pj for upsampling?

I think at this point i'm leaning toward something like a DV9500 or 9600 (or equivalent quality DVD output without all the 2 channel outputs ... just need to find one!). The VP30 or HD+ may be overkill. Besides I can still add a scaler later!

Knowing if I can control the output scaling in any way (or keep it unprocessed to input to the pj or discrete scaler if I get one one day) would be handy, as would the quality of the inbuilt scaler vs the pj's own scaler (I guess this is a good opportunity to fiddle and find out ).

As a rule in consumer electronics I have found that multiple functionality often comes at a cost. I'm hoping in the mid/high end gear being discussed here that the scaling hardware wasn't added with the last few cents of the design budget

[Foggy]

Yes, there is a thread listing all 576i DVD players but it was from a while ago, so it may not be current. So, here's a quick summary off the top my head:

- Pioneer DVD-S969AVIs (576i via HDMI)

- Pioneer DVD-S989AVIs (576i via HDMI)

- Marantz DV-9600 (576i via HDMI)

- Oppo DV-970HD (576i via HDMI)

- Oppo DV-971H (576i via Component only)

There's a couple of others, but I can't remember them at the moment.

My choice would be the Marantz DV-9600... it's not cheap, but it has been designed from the ground up to handle 1080p processing to ensure it compliments Marantz's new 1080p projector (US$20k). There is an excellent review of it on the Secrets site who are world-renowned for their in-depth testing of DVD players.

I think it's a wise move to hold off on the VP30 for now, as there will be better video processors coming up soon. The speed of takeup of HD DVDs will also change the landscape very quickly.

[mgrobins]

ok thanks .

Is the DV9600 really that much better than the 9500? I'd expect clearance stock of the 9500 to be going out the door soon so I could save some $$ if they are pretty similar. Need to future proof myself a bit though as well (though I will not be upgrading my pj or this kit any time soon if I purchase ).

Waiting for the "next best thing" is ridiculous... I want my stuff now heh. Equally, I like to buy smart so my gear will last and be compatible with newer formats.

[Foggy]

  mgrobins said:

ok thanks .

Is the DV9600 really that much better than the 9500? I'd expect clearance stock of the 9500 to be going out the door soon so I could save some $$ if they are pretty similar. Need to future proof myself a bit though as well (though I will not be upgrading my pj or this kit any time soon if I purchase ).

Waiting for the "next best thing" is ridiculous... I want my stuff now heh. Equally, I like to buy smart so my gear will last and be compatible with newer formats.

Well the 9500 doesn't do 576i via DVI for starters.

The 9600 has the ABT video processing engine, albeit in a crippled form. From memory it also has an improved power supply. And perhaps the most important feature of the 9600 is it's 1080p potential.

I think it'll be worth the extra $500 or so if you're already in that ballpark.

[mgrobins]

Still reading more and investigating.

Down to consideration of the DV9500 and 9600.

A 9500 can be had for less and i'm unsure if the 9600 is going to give me a noticibly better video experience (both almost the same in audio I have read).

I don't mind last years model cheaper if the new model is not any better .

I pretty well think it will be the DVD player and HT-STB going into a PE8720 as my big-screen setup. Either both directly in or through a HDMI switching box (assuming one can be found that doesn't screw the signal ). or maybe DVD via hdmi and T via component.

Edit: confused some stuff from a few articles ... removed my dumb question.