Highjinx Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 As someone in the IT industry I know first hand that Spec's mean very little if they aren't made good use of - case in point the Samsung BD Player & Mpeg2 based single layer BD titles!No I own a Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD Player, never heard of this "Tossibator" you speak of. See bad example! Early Samsung: Not refined, BD25 crippled!. BD50 available this week...........do have a peek!
djOS Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 See bad example! Early Samsung: Not refined, BD25 crippled!. BD50 available this week...........do have a peek! meh, I have my fully functional, non-crippled HD-DVD player now and for alot less money than what the BD players will be/are going for - game over imo!
Highjinx Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 meh, I have my fully functional, non-crippled HD-DVD player now and for alot less money than what the BD players will be/are going for - game over imo! Enjoy! BTW how much better is a downscaled 1080 to 720 vs an upscaled 576 to 720?
djOS Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Enjoy!BTW how much better is a downscaled 1080 to 720 vs an upscaled 576 to 720? Thanks I will. no idea, my HD-DVD's still haven't shown up yet but it is an excellent HD scaling SD-DVD player for R1 NTSC discs (as good as my Denon 2910).
Kirium Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Extras in HD?!?!?! I'll believe it when I see it. This November will be 10 years since the first DVD players were made available in Japan... Over 10 years into the DVD format and most studios are still putting out extras that aren't even in 16:9 format... Infact, I can't even recall watching a movie recently that didn't have extras in "stretch-o-vision" when viewed on a 16:9 screen. What makes you think they'll want to do it in HD??
Guest Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Enjoy!BTW how much better is a downscaled 1080 to 720 vs an upscaled 576 to 720? What the hell are you talking about now? First report of using the 360 add-on HD-DVD (otherwise known as a proven technology):- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=734883
Highjinx Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 What the hell are you talking about now?First report of using the 360 add-on HD-DVD (otherwise known as a proven technology):- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=734883 Now good little Pony, off with the blinkers, see the bigger picture, different ain't it to tunnel vision? djos has a HS50 720p projector.............! Extras in HD?!?!?! I'll believe it when I see it. This November will be 10 years since the first DVD players were made available in Japan... Over 10 years into the DVD format and most studios are still putting out extras that aren't even in 16:9 format... Infact, I can't even recall watching a movie recently that didn't have extras in "stretch-o-vision" when viewed on a 16:9 screen. What makes you think they'll want to do it in HD?? You are so behind the times. What year are you stuck in?1990? http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/click.html For the benefit of others please do your research prior to posting. Thankfully, I don't need to rely on ill informed folks such as your self for my decision making, but there are many who may be influence by your flippant statements...to their detriment.
Paranoid666au Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Now good little Pony, off with the blinkers, see the bigger picture, different ain't it to tunnel vision? djos has a HS50 720p projector.............! WTF? Most people have 720p type displays? Are we suppose to dump all our TV's or what? And for your information, 1080i through to a 1366x768 50" NEC plasma is such a big improvement over DVD. Oh but you don't own a hi def player so what would you know?
The_Preacher1973 Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 You are so behind the times. What year are you stuck in?1990?http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/click.html For the benefit of others please do your research prior to posting. Thankfully, I don't need to rely on ill informed folks such as your self for my decision making, but there are many who may be influence by your flippant statements...to their detriment. OMFG Highjinx. You're becoming deranged. Kirium's point is extremely valid. Most extras are shot in 4:3 video format. They're not even film based.
Jace Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 meh, I have my fully functional, non-crippled HD-DVD player now and for alot less money than what the BD players will be/are going for - game over imo! The game is hardly over. Over half the movies ever made are not, at this stage, planned to be released on HD-DVD. Only one studio is holding out on Blu-Ray. Content, content, content. That's what it's all about and that's what is going to decide the winner here. Paramount and Warners are steadily realesing all their HD-DVD titles to Blu-Ray, with day and date announcements for both formats for new titles. Add Sony, Fox and Disney titles into the mix and I'd be worried if I were the HD-DVD consortium. They need at least both Disney and Fox to survive long term, and Fox, at least, has shown no signs of budging from Blu-Ray. Quite the contrary; they appear very hostile to the format. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have serious problems at the moment: HD-DVD a lack of compelling studio content and Blu-Ray is priced too high and is replete with draconian copy protection measures. Frankly, neither at this stage look like being anything beyond and expensive (I'm talking software as much as hardware here) niche product to rival LaserDisc.
Highjinx Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 OMFG Highjinx. You're becoming deranged. Kirium's point is extremely valid. Most extras are shot in 4:3 video format. They're not even film based. Shame, shame, shame Preach, one must realise that the new extras shot for new releases/productions will be shot with the new capabilities of the medium in mind. As noted "Click" was shot on video. Most new pro video cams are 16:9. 4:3 material will be so yesterday! BTW did you read the link...extras in HD! The BR camp may continue to do this as an offering of value to it's potential customers. The benefit of an HD trailer to stimulate a further rental/sale cannot be ignored. WTF? Most people have 720p type displays? Are we suppose to dump all our TV's or what?And for your information, 1080i through to a 1366x768 50" NEC plasma is such a big improvement over DVD. Oh but you don't own a hi def player so what would you know? That's why I ask, humble man wants to learn..... .I was seeking djos's first hand experience as to his situation with the HS50/HD BTW pricing with PS3/Entry Tosh ain't too bad. Man only a few years ago TV buyers possibly laughed at the price of Plasmas, but now accept the 2.5k+ price, when a good CRT was available for 1/3 the price.
djOS Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 What the hell are you talking about now?First report of using the 360 add-on HD-DVD (otherwise known as a proven technology):- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=734883 Im shocked to admit that I actually understood HJ's question - He was asking what the difference was between native 1080i content @ 720p vs 576p content @ 720p via the HD-A1 on my HS50. The only problem with his question is that the HD-A1 only plays R1 NTSC discs which are 480p.
Mike Kakay Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 So over the Blah Ray- HD DVD saga! Everyone should exit the playground and leave HighJox to sulk by himself on the swings.........
Guest Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Im shocked to admit that I actually understood HJ's question - He was asking what the difference was between native 1080i content @ 720p vs 576p content @ 720p via the HD-A1 on my HS50. The only problem with his question is that the HD-A1 only plays R1 NTSC discs which are 480p. I wasnt sure if he was asking a genuine question or if he was having a smart go at the fact that the earlier firmware of the Toshiba meant that for outputting 720p the machine downscaled to 480p and then back up again. This has been fixed with FW 2.0. As somebody who has now tried both HD-DVD movies and scaled NTSC SD DVDs at 720p (The Incredibles and Kingdom OF Heaven) I can safely say that upscaled SD does look fantastic, but still not a patch on true HD content. As for extras on a disc, while I do watch them, I personally couldnt be arsed if they were HD or not. Just not THE priority when buying a movie IMO.
big_marcelo Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 What the hell are you talking about now?First report of using the 360 add-on HD-DVD (otherwise known as a proven technology):- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=734883 good link, thanks Mark, HD DVD is kicking BR a@ss at the moment...... cheaper, reliable AND better PQ .... what else you want????
momaw Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Well as soon as Castel confirm that the HD-DVD player released here on dec 6 is NOT region coded, I'm gonna get one. By all accounts it is supposed to be a very good SD-DVD player so *if* the format dies it will still be of some use. Personally I don't think HD-DVD will fail, rather we will be living with 2 (3 if you include SD) formats for a few years to come. If I end up with a BD player it will only be because I gave in to the PS3. Of course that means region coding which will see more of my dollers go on HD-DVD titles than BD. I respect the right of the studios to protect their product, however, region coding does not do this in any way shape or form. It is anti-competative and goes against the principles of free trade. I will not buy a product that restricts my ability to chose (yes HJ I can hear you already "HD-DVD only has X studios so it is restricting your ability to chose" - not the same thing) or limits me to inferior choices or locks me out entirely. Oh and please HJ, not everything you read on the net or a company says about it's own product is gospel truth. I used to just yell at the crap they say on Today Tonight, but man you beat even them.
Mike Kakay Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 NEC unveils chip to bridge Blu-ray/HD-DVD divideOne chip that works with both standards could cut the cost of building a player that accommodates Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs. Just as Microsoft and Sony are squaring off with the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, respectively, so too are their preferred next-generation disc formats. Microsoft is backing Toshiba's HD-DVD format with next month's release of an HD-DVD add-on for the 360, while Sony built Blu-ray functionality into the core PS3 hardware. A truce between the Blu-ray and HD-DVD worlds is still probably a way off, but NEC has come up with a chip that could help companies bridge the gap. The chip, essentially a controller, works in both Blu-ray and HD-DVD players. One chip that works with both standards could cut the cost of building a player that accommodates Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs. The chip will start shipping in April 2007, NEC said. The appearance of a combination player, however, could still take time. Companies such as Pioneer and LG announced plans to come out with combination players, but later backed away. Cost is the main culprit. Blu-ray players cost about $1,000, and the player/recorders, which won't be coming to the US immediately, run about $3,200. HD-DVD players start at around $500, but the recorders cost about the same. The high price, in part, is due to components. Since mass manufacturing has just begun, the parts still cost a lot, although prices will decline in 2007. Even with the expected price declines, building a hybrid player would involve redundant components. Other components that can handle both standards would also likely have to be developed to bring the price of a hybrid player down. But royalties are also a factor. The companies that invented the standards could make millions in licensing fees over the next decade if their standard gets adopted widely. Building a combo player, therefore, would require paying royalties to both camps. Further complicating the matter are the high emotions generated by the dispute. Last week at the Ceatec trade show in Japan, reporters asked Kazuhiro Tsuga, an executive officer at Matsushita Electric, a firm member of the Blu-ray camp, about the possibility of Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo players hitting the market. "That is stupid, stupid," he said, noting that the cost would be high. Matsushita sells products under the name Panasonic in the US. Still, other manufacturers are intrigued by the idea, especially if the format wars hurt sales. Hitachi, which is concocting a camcorder that will record directly to Blu-ray discs, said it will study the issue of a combo recorder after Blu-ray is established in the market. By Michael Kanellos -- News.com Posted Oct 11, 2006 4:24 pm PT Story from GameSpot: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159683.html Copyright ©2006 CNET Networks, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Jace Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 good link, thanks Mark,HD DVD is kicking BR a@ss at the moment...... cheaper, reliable AND better PQ .... what else you want???? Content. Specifically from ALL the studios. And has been discussed here before, HD-DVD does NOT produce better PQ. The more positive early reviews of HD-DVDs was a result of better encoding. Now that Blu-Ray is using the same encoding as HD-DVD the reviews are revealing that PQ is, in most case, identical (and this is before the release of 50G BD titles). Go over the highdefdigest.com website and read the reviews (unless you have BOTH HD-DVd and Blu-Ray and can attest to this through personal knowledge). But don't read the review of Rattle & Hum or you'll have a coronary. The Blu-Ray looks better than HD-DVD version. Uninformed zealotary from both sides doesn't help either cause.
Guest Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Content. Specifically from ALL the studios. And has been discussed here before, HD-DVD does NOT produce better PQ. The more positive early reviews of HD-DVDs was a result of better encoding. Now that Blu-Ray is using the same encoding as HD-DVD the reviews are revealing that PQ is, in most case, identical (and this is before the release of 50G BD titles). Go over the highdefdigest.com website and read the reviews (unless you have BOTH HD-DVd and Blu-Ray and can attest to this through personal knowledge). But don't read the review of Rattle & Hum or you'll have a coronary. The Blu-Ray looks better than HD-DVD version. Uninformed zealotary from both sides doesn't help either cause. He was referring to the early releases Jace, and Sony's insistance on using their own outdated MPEG-2 codec. The only zealots in this thread are those who seem to be pushing BR. Youre also making the assumption that 50GB discs are going to be full to capacity, highly doubtful. As for content, if using the argument about ALL studios, well then BR needs Universal's support too, agreed? This deabte is never going to go away, and with respect to you Jace at least youre being rational in this debate, unlike Mr. HJ. As an HD-DVD owner, I guess you could say I am firmly in that camp now. Let me give the zealots my reasons why:- Movies - At the time of making the decision, BR disc WERE more expensive. However looking at Amazon some of the discs are on a par price-wise with their HD counterparts. Although the prices of BR in general seems to a little bit all over the place. HD-DVD discs seem to be the same price, whether its a combo or standard disc. Player - Price is a major factor here, and again based on the two competing format units out there, Toshiba won by a country mile. Patience (or lack thereof) - Ive always been an early adoptor and want my new toys now! The rest of the beneficial differences that BR claim are simply theory at this stage. Ill state this once more, Sony have a history of overpromising and underdelivering. Look at the PS2 as an example, they may have sold a s**tload, but output video quality was far lower than they promised. Like a lot of their proprietry technologies. It would be bad for the industry for Sony to have a monopoly on this type of technology. Sony are claiming that 50Gb discs will offer improved pic quality, but this may be more on features rather than the main presentation. I doubt Warner will get their master and compress it for two different formats - that would cost them more money. They will do as they currently do, master the disc with HD-DVD tools and port it over.
Jace Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 He was referring to the early releases Jace, and Sony's insistance on using their own outdated MPEG-2 codec. I saw no such qualification in his post. He was referring to the early releases Jace, and Sony's insistance on using their own outdated MPEG-2 codec. The only zealots in this thread are those who seem to be pushing BR. I absolutely disagree. I've seen nothing but complete trashing of Blu-Ray and lauding of HD-DVD to the point where anyone who disagrees with certain posters is immediately labelled a troll and dismissed out of hand. Zealotry works both ways on this forum.
momaw Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 I absolutely disagree. I've seen nothing but complete trashing of Blu-Ray and lauding of HD-DVD to the point where anyone who disagrees with certain posters is immediately labelled a troll and dismissed out of hand. Zealotry works both ways on this forum. While I agree that there is zealotry at work on both sides of this argument. I do think that one side is being pulled down by an individual who (1) quotes unrelaible sources as fact, (2) purposefully crafts his arguments to incite and (3) seems to make up stuff when 1 & 2 fail (yes there have been dubious claims from the other side as well but not so consistantly). A zealot among zealots - are we not all Home Theatre zealots here? That being said my feet are in the HD-DVD camp at the moment. That could change but only if BD makes itself more friendly to those who legally acquire discs.
fRuItCaKe. Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 If there are concerns with sharing of the componentry etc, then why not build the player with two drives, one for BD and the other for HDDVD and just share the output circuitry (ie electronic switch). That way all the specifics hardware requirements for each formats implementation can be addressed. Just got to remember to put the right disk in the right side!
Guest Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Jace, Ive qualified my reasons for jumping on the HD-DVD bandwagon and Ive explained my reasons for not having any faith in the BR format, particularly as its attached at the hip to the Sony Corporation. I have a format at home now that delivers on all its promises. What portion of this do you seem to have a problem with? There may be some posters on here who may be supporting one format over the other and that is their decision, but until rationale returns to this thread this argument wont be changing. If we stuck to the facts this would be a much better thread. Frankly I'm bored with it now. BlownPixel type bored to be exact. momaw - well said.
Jace Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Jace,Ive qualified my reasons for jumping on the HD-DVD bandwagon and Ive explained my reasons for not having any faith in the BR format, particularly as its attached at the hip to the Sony Corporation. I have a format at home now that delivers on all its promises. What portion of this do you seem to have a problem with? None. Why do you assume that I did? I'm merely tired of a lack of balance. If we stuck to the facts this would be a much better thread. I couldn't agree more.
Guest Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 None. Why do you assume that I did? I'm merely tired of a lack of balance.I couldn't agree more. I'm glad we agree on something mate!!!
Recommended Posts