Highjinx Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 While I agree that there is zealotry at work on both sides of this argument. I do think that one side is being pulled down by an individual who (1) quotes unrelaible sources as fact, (2) purposefully crafts his arguments to incite and (3) seems to make up stuff when 1 & 2 fail (yes there have been dubious claims from the other side as well but not so consistantly). A zealot among zealots - are we not all Home Theatre zealots here?That being said my feet are in the HD-DVD camp at the moment. That could change but only if BD makes itself more friendly to those who legally acquire discs. The best way to arrive at a valid conclution is to debate, not name call. If there is a point or statement you disagree with post a counter point. If the person is seeming to "make stuff up" out of the blue with no logical thinking behind it, your counter points will bring this person undone. He is likely to loose it and name call and withdraw from the discussion and possibly kick the cat! Let logic be the guide. If both parties have a sound logical argument, agree to disagree, it is likely you are both right from your individual perspectives. But to tear some one down because you don't like what they are saying is simply valueless.
Guest Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 The best way to arrive at a valid conclution is to debate, not name call. If there is a point or statement you disagree with post a counter point. If the person is seeming to "make stuff up" out of the blue with no logical thinking behind it, your counter points will bring this person undone. He is likely to loose it and name call and withdraw from the discussion and possibly kick the cat!Let logic be the guide. If both parties have a sound logical argument, agree to disagree, it is likely you are both right from your individual perspectives. But to tear some one down because you don't like what they are saying is simply valueless. As I posted in the "other" thread, listen to your own advice...very carefully...
Mr.Bitey Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 As I posted in the "other" thread, listen to your own advice...very carefully... Whats this other thread - it sounds interesting :-) :Sounds toll horn: Bitey
Highjinx Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Whats this other thread - it sounds interesting :-):Sounds toll horn: Bitey See here: Perhaps you should take advantage of our own advice? You have not provided any valid arguments for your comments. You are basing your "insider knowledge" on common misunderstandings and hyperbole that streams from the Sony press machine. You also seem to have a lack of HD-DVD knowledge. You are telling people to believe nothing thats reported on "other" forums yet you pull your own "info" from theose very sources. If you truly are a mature person (in every sense of the word), then please, grow up and act like it. Please feel free to dig up any statement I have made(not the tounge in cheek ones often followed by a ) and I will give you a logical run down on how/why I arrived at that conclution. Feel free to logically argue a counter point.......that will be fun and productive. Quote MarkH: "You are telling people to believe nothing thats reported on "other" forums" End quote When did I say that?..........You ARE making things up Mark!.................. Baseless statements such as that, made by you are ridiculous For what valid purpose eludes me! Do enlighten! No doubt there is a purpose for you...valid it ain't I would rather discuss the pros & cons of the technology and business stratergy!
ajm1503559545 Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 I would rather discuss the pros & cons of the technology and business stratergy! Excellent idea. Please list for discussion all the CONS of the Blu-ray technology and Sony's business strategies as you see them. Heaven knows you've deluged us with nothing but pros for the last several months.
Guest Conifer Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 FYI THX Lends a Hand It’s been reported that THX's Best Practices Lab for Windows' Media held a special meeting in Hollywood dedicated to HD DVD authoring. Attended by almost one hundred participants from half as many companies, THX and Microsoft provided training for compression and authoring, encoding content using the VC-1 CODEC, integrating advanced interactivity features based on Microsoft’s HDi, and preparing the discs for replication. Of particular interest was Microsoft’s Parallel Encoding Tool, which is said to substantially reduce encoding time. Dual Format Players You’ll recall that I wrote about Broadcom’s development of a chipset capable of handling the decoding of both formats’ bit streams. Now comes word that HD DVD backer NEC Electronics has developed its own dual-mode chipset. NEC is reported to have gone one step further than Broadcom; not only will the product handle decoding chores, it can also handle the drive's internal logic. Mate the NEC product with the previously reported Ricoh multi-mode laser optics, and the player could handle HD DVDs, Blu-ray Discs, DVDs, and CDs. NEC is reported to be able to produce a third of a million chips per month by next April, but there is a huge impediment. It seems that the Blu-ray Disc licensing agreement precludes manufacturers from building dual-format players. It’s estimated that the installed base of high definition players currently stands at about 35,000 units. I expect that number to rise considerably during the holiday season with Panasonic, Sony, and Pioneer Blu-ray Disc players brought to market. (The PS3 may change the complexion of the installed base as well.) Regardless, progress has been slow. Clearly, a dual-format player that costs less than buying two players, one for each format, would substantially accelerate the adoption of high definition on disc. But I can’t help being concerned about that licensing provision. Perhaps the semiconductor companies investing great gobs of cash in developing these highly complex dual-format chipsets believe that the European Commission investigation of such anticompetitive licensing terms will offer some relief, opening the way for dual-format players
Guest Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Quote MarkH: "You are telling people to believe nothing thats reported on "other" forums" End quote When did I say that?..........You ARE making things up Mark!.................. Baseless statements such as that, made by you are ridiculous For what valid purpose eludes me! Do enlighten! No doubt there is a purpose for you...valid it ain't I would rather discuss the pros & cons of the technology and business stratergy! Let me start:Quote MarkH Quote MarkH "You are telling people to believe nothing thats reported on "other" forums" End quote When did I say that? You ARE making things up Mark! You actually said it to me either in this or the other thread a cuple of weeks ago (referring to the AVSForum). I cant be arsed going back and finding it, which should give you plenty of time to find it and edit you posts.
RodN Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Toet you should really cite the source when referencing and article. FYITHX Lends a Hand It's been reported that THX's Best Practices Lab for Windows' Media held a special meeting in Hollywood dedicated to HD DVD authoring. Attended by almost one hundred participants from half as many companies, THX and Microsoft provided training for compression and authoring, encoding content using the VC-1 CODEC, integrating advanced interactivity features based on Microsoft's HDi, and preparing the discs for replication. Of particular interest was Microsoft's Parallel Encoding Tool, which is said to substantially reduce encoding time. Dual Format Players You'll recall that I wrote about Broadcom's development of a chipset capable of handling the decoding of both formats' bit streams. Now comes word that HD DVD backer NEC Electronics has developed its own dual-mode chipset. NEC is reported to have gone one step further than Broadcom; not only will the product handle decoding chores, it can also handle the drive's internal logic. Mate the NEC product with the previously reported Ricoh multi-mode laser optics, and the player could handle HD DVDs, Blu-ray Discs, DVDs, and CDs. NEC is reported to be able to produce a third of a million chips per month by next April, but there is a huge impediment. It seems that the Blu-ray Disc licensing agreement precludes manufacturers from building dual-format players. It's estimated that the installed base of high definition players currently stands at about 35,000 units. I expect that number to rise considerably during the holiday season with Panasonic, Sony, and Pioneer Blu-ray Disc players brought to market. (The PS3 may change the complexion of the installed base as well.) Regardless, progress has been slow. Clearly, a dual-format player that costs less than buying two players, one for each format, would substantially accelerate the adoption of high definition on disc. But I can't help being concerned about that licensing provision. Perhaps the semiconductor companies investing great gobs of cash in developing these highly complex dual-format chipsets believe that the European Commission investigation of such anticompetitive licensing terms will offer some relief, opening the way for dual-format players
Highjinx Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Bit on DTS-HD for both BulRay and Hd-Dvd http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php
Guest offline Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 lets save some money and wait. nec has an idea. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/displ...1011233527.html
Highjinx Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 lets save some money and wait. nec has an idea.http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/displ...1011233527.html I think if the PS3 has less than a significant influence on BluRay movie uptake, we will begin to see machines developed that can play both disk types from the BluRay camp. It will be easier for BluRay machines to do this than Hd-Dvd ones. As Hd-Dvd's bandwidth is significantly less than BluRay's, I suppose Hybrid Hd-Dvd machines will have to down grade the BluRay signal to make it fit in it's pipeline. Where as BluRay won't have that problem. But time will tell.
RodN Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Bit on DTS-HD for both BulRay and Hd-Dvdhttp://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php Is this expected that the bit-rates are half for HD-DVD... Name Blu-ray HD-DVD DTS-HD Master 24.5 vs 18 DTS-HD Hires 6 vs 3
betty boop Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Is this expected that the bit-rates are half for HD-DVD... Name Blu-ray HD-DVD DTS-HD Master 24.5 vs 18 DTS-HD Hires 6 vs 3 appears so in the link. one thing to keep in mind is those bit rates are mind blowing compared to what we have now. Also would could come down to whether the movie studios ever end up using the full bit rate avaialble, not sure the real world differences. The potential audio improvments with these two formats is really encouraging. interesting to read here the top level dts-HD master requires hdmi v1.3 http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/why-does-dtshd-sound-so-good.php http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-master-aud...ew-receiver.php good move too on DTS encore only needing the spdif connection meaning many will enjoy best of that and the improvement with what ever they have now. also only one other format the dts hi-res is 7.1 the rest 5.1 or 2 ch
RodN Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Sure is going to be fun listening to these much higher bit-rates. Currently we are only at about 1.5 so hearing 25 will be a real eye opener.
Guest Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Sure is going to be fun listening to these much higher bit-rates. Currently we are only at about 1.5 so hearing 25 will be a real eye opener. I doubt even the max of 18 in HD-DVD would be achieved on regular basis.
betty boop Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Sure is going to be fun listening to these much higher bit-rates. Currently we are only at about 1.5 so hearing 25 will be a real eye opener. yeah the link said that currently with all hte extras and all that were probably only seing 765k at present. even jsut doubleing to 1.5m should be quite an improvment. and rates liek 25m yeah really are mind blowing to comprehend. Must need a huge jump in processing power to handle that sort of increases. myself cant wait for some quality pre/pros / avrs that handle the new formats.
djOS Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 Sure is going to be fun listening to these much higher bit-rates. Currently we are only at about 1.5 so hearing 25 will be a real eye opener. So far I only have the 1 HD-DVD with DD+ Audio (FF:Tokyo Drift) and I've got to tell y'all, converted to Multi-Channel PCM and pumped into my 2600 via HDMI, the SQ is mindblowing compared even to a great DTS track on an SD-DVD. The detail far surpasses my original expectations, even the LFE is rich and detailed and the entire sound stage is simply outstanding!
betty boop Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 So far I only have the 1 HD-DVD with DD+ Audio (FF:Tokyo Drift) and I've got to tell y'all, converted to Multi-Channel PCM and pumped into my 2600 via HDMI, the SQ is mindblowing compared even to a great DTS track on an SD-DVD. The detail far surpasses my original expectations, even the LFE is rich and detailed and the entire sound stage is simply outstanding! that is certainly encouraing stuff djos. great to hear !
Highjinx Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 So far I only have the 1 HD-DVD with DD+ Audio (FF:Tokyo Drift) and I've got to tell y'all, converted to Multi-Channel PCM and pumped into my 2600 via HDMI, the SQ is mindblowing compared even to a great DTS track on an SD-DVD. The detail far surpasses my original expectations, even the LFE is rich and detailed and the entire sound stage is simply outstanding! Is there any talk of having pure audio Hd-Dvd/BluRay disk products like SACD/DVD-A?
RodN Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 So far I only have the 1 HD-DVD with DD+ Audio (FF:Tokyo Drift) and I've got to tell y'all, converted to Multi-Channel PCM and pumped into my 2600 via HDMI, the SQ is mindblowing compared even to a great DTS track on an SD-DVD. The detail far surpasses my original expectations, even the LFE is rich and detailed and the entire sound stage is simply outstanding! Stop it you are making me drool. I doubt even the max of 18 in HD-DVD would be achieved on regular basis. As I've said before lets just wait and see what happens in reality... these sorts of rates are far beyond even CD so it'll be very interesting.
betty boop Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 Is there any talk of having pure audio Hd-Dvd/BluRay disk products like SACD/DVD-A? there was this announcment from sony saying sacd to remain for their 'pure hi-fi' category http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/new...number=15587172 and they'll continue to promote the thome theatre category wiht blu-ray. Stop it you are making me drool. As I've said before lets just wait and see what happens in reality... these sorts of rates are far beyond even CD so it'll be very interesting. whats the bit rate with cd nobby ? didnt think htere was that as in a trnasfer of digital info. unless your talkign to separate dacs or something ? if yoru talking about sampling freq DTS-HDs 192khz/24 bit is still only on par with SACD as far as I can see. to have movies with that sort of quality should be quite amazing though !
RodN Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 if yoru talking about sampling freq DTS-HDs 192khz/24 bit is still only on par with SACD as far as I can see.to have movies with that sort of quality should be quite amazing though ! Yes you are right Al - Cd's are 16bit/44.1kHz and SACDs can be upt to 192khz at 24bit so we are looking at SACD quality playback - I'm still droolin!
Highjinx Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 there was this announcment from sony saying sacd to remain for their 'pure hi-fi' category http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/new...number=15587172 and they'll continue to promote the thome theatre category wiht blu-ray. whats the bit rate with cd nobby ? didnt think htere was that as in a trnasfer of digital info. unless your talkign to separate dacs or something ? if yoru talking about sampling freq DTS-HDs 192khz/24 bit is still only on par with SACD as far as I can see. to have movies with that sort of quality should be quite amazing though ! CD sampling rate around 44.1Khz....Bit rate....1140Kbs or there about SACD/DVD-A........Bit rate around 10Mbps-12Mbps
Mike Kakay Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 (edited) whats the bit rate with cd nobby ? Its about 1100 and something Kb's Edit: Beaten to it. Edited October 15, 2006 by M.L.F. AKA Mike R.
betty boop Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 Yes you are right Al - Cd's are 16bit/44.1kHz and SACDs can be upt to 192khz at 24bit so we are looking at SACD quality playback - I'm still droolin! oh dont worry about that I'm drooling here to ! hehehe the leap in soudn quality just has to be there you'd think with that sort of capability !
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