Setting Up A Projector In A Room

[rzkman]

Hi guys,

I am in the process of building an extension and its currently in the frame stage. So I guess I am kind of doing some last minute dash to get my cables laid before the plaster goes up. As much as I find the reading on this forum very informative, there is a tendency for information overload and I would like some advice/confirmation on my plans.

My room size is 4.5 wide by 9.5 deep. I plan to have the main seating area around the 5-6m mark. The light in this room will be fairly well controlled.

My starting point was the size of the screen I would like to have. I initially was set upon a 16:9 100" diag screen, but someone had suggested that I should get a 120". Do you think 120" is too large for the room? I don't want to have the feeling that I am sitting in the front rows at the cinemas.

OK, working with the screen size of 120", the next decision was which projector. My budget is around the $4K-5k mark, so I am eyeing the Epson Tw1000 at the moment. So assuming I went with this projector, the next thing I am trying to determine is where I would have it mounted on the ceiling. I can then plan to have a powerpoint and the HDMI cable at this location.

I went to projector central and put in the specs for the Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080. I am not too sure how I should be using this tool. There are three slide bars that control the zoom, throw distance and image diagnal. So I just changed the image diagnal to be 304cm (120") and it tells me that my throw distance should be 7.61m with a zoom of 1.0x.

If I change the zoom to something like 1.25x, I can see that the image diagnal stays the same, but the throw distance drops to 6.07m.

My question is, how should I be interpreting and using these figures? Some questions

1. Should I always aim to have the zoom at 1.0x and ideally have the projector mounted at 7.61m?

2. Does changing the zoom degrade the picture? I plan to have the projector centrally mounted, so there is no lens shift required. I would have thought that by introducing some zoom and having the PJ closer to the screen, the image would be brighter?

3. If I decide to upgrade my projector in a few years time would it simply be a matter of interchanging it and altering the zoom on the new projector so it fills up my screen? Or would something be compromised??

Hope you guys can give me some guidance here. As its a tough trying to plan all this without any prior experience. My thoughts was to loosely run the mains wire and the HDMI wire in the ceiling cavity before the plaster goes up. This way, once I get my projector and screen I can experiment with the distances and decide on the mount position. At this stage I would then cut through the plaster and hopefully find my mains wire and HDMI cable up there somewhere.

Appreciate your help.

Ray

[brodricj]

120" is a big screen for that room, have you considered a 2.35 CIH setup?

I wouldn't be too troubled about laying cables at this stage, suitable conduit to near where your pj might go should do;

The higher the telescopic zoom setting the lower the resulting brightness, offset against which is a lower risk of hot spotting (or so I've been told);

I wouldn't be worried about where you're going to mount the projector at this stage, it will sort itself out later. Unless of course it's going to be out of view in a bulk head or something so then you'll need to know if the zoom ratio's will fit your preferred screen size.

You just can't mount the pj on the plaster ceiling, the mount needs to be fixed to a hard point. So run a hard point along the roof centreline and things will be easy.

Buy a good screen, the money will be well spent. You can get an excellent 720p pj for about the $3k mark freeing up your budget for a better screen.

If they haven't plastered the ceiling yet, get them to use Soundchek plasterboard (or the equivalent Boral product).

[Guest EZYHD]

Ray,

You'll need to know which PJ you'll buy then you can then work out the most suitable throw distance (between the PJ lens and screen). Then instal timber between the roof trusses to take the PJ later. Run your cables from the PJ position to your HT gear just before the ceiling goes on. With mine, I installed the PJ lens dead centre to the screen and mounted it in the centre of the throw distance.

I think 100" x 16.9 screen is ample, bur some like them larger.

For a neat job (later) use wall plates for cables.

http://www.cliff.com.au/products/wallplates/wallplates.htm

http://www.htcustomcables.com

[rzkman]

Hi BJ,

Thanks for your comments. I do agree that 120" might be 'overdoing' it and will probably scale it back to 100". I have considered CIH, but considering all the hassles of building a sled and having to mask the screen when watching certain content seems a bit of a deterrant at the moment. Remember, I am a newbie/simpleton who is coming from nothing, so I don't need to have the latest and greatest. Maybe it will be something I will regret 12 months from now, but at the moment all I want is a 'simple' solution without having to do too much tricks to get it working.

I am not sure what you mean by not worrying about cables, 'cos once the plaster goes up I won't be able to access the ceiling cavity anymore. Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe you are suggesting I run something like a vacuum cleaner duct in the cavity now and then pull cables through that when the time comes. Is that what you mean? On that I have one concern. How easy is it to get it to bend at right angles where the ceiling meets the wall. Also does that mean I have to bore a hole the diameter of the pipe through the stud? Sorry if this really sounds stupid, but I have little experience in these areas. Although there are existing holes bored by the sparkies to run their wires, I am worried about the thought of cutting a 50mm hole in a 86cm wide stud to run the conduit down. Am I missing something?

Just had a thought. I should have mentioned the ceiling construction. There is a terrace directly above the HT room. Between the ceiling plaster there is a set posistruts. Cement sheets are nailed onto the struts, waterproofing/cement and sandstone will be laid onto of the sheets. So once the plaster goes on, I have no access to the ceiling cavity.

Here are some photos http://rzk.smugmug.com/gallery/247436#9660623

I will be mounting the PJ onto the ceiling. There are many posistruts running across the room, so I wil mount it onto one of those.

I am thinking of buying a fixed frame screen through ozts. I think many members here have purchased through them and seem to be good bang for buck screen.

In regards to the sound check plaster board, what are the benefits of doing this? I hate dealing with my builders and it seems any variations to the contract they will try to make more money out of it. Is the purpose of the soundcheck board to improve acoustics? Or just to keep the noise in? Do people just install sound check without going all the way with their cinemazone solution?

Thanks,

Ray.

120" is a big screen for that room, have you considered a 2.35 CIH setup?

I wouldn't be too troubled about laying cables at this stage, suitable conduit to near where your pj might go should do;

The higher the telescopic zoom setting the lower the resulting brightness, offset against which is a lower risk of hot spotting (or so I've been told);

I wouldn't be worried about where you're going to mount the projector at this stage, it will sort itself out later. Unless of course it's going to be out of view in a bulk head or something so then you'll need to know if the zoom ratio's will fit your preferred screen size.

You just can't mount the pj on the plaster ceiling, the mount needs to be fixed to a hard point. So run a hard point along the roof centreline and things will be easy.

Buy a good screen, the money will be well spent. You can get an excellent 720p pj for about the $3k mark freeing up your budget for a better screen.

If they haven't plastered the ceiling yet, get them to use Soundchek plasterboard (or the equivalent Boral product).

[Guest EZYHD]

Just run the cables in for the PJ and rear speakers no conduit is really needed.

You'll have to have to work out where the ceiling PP will go soon. Better start looking at PJ's if not already done so. Have the Epson Tw600 myself my 2nd PJ, love it.

Think the OZ screens are OK.

[rzkman]

Thanks for your comments.

I guess my question is what is considered the "most suitable throw distance"? Is it the one where the zoom is 1.0x?

In regards to installing the timber between the trusses, can't I just screw the mountpoing straight onto the 90mm wide timber? How wide are the mount plates normally anyway?

In regards to the wallplates, thanks for bring that up...seems to be another can of worms. I initially like the idea as it means no cables running across the floor. But then I spoke to Greg from HT cables and it seems the thicker Kordz Spectrum cables are the way to go for the fronts and centre. These are very thick cables at 10.5mm diameter with the jackets on. Again I am a bit reluctant to drill large holes in the studs in case it weakens them. I initially was considering just the Kordz Velocity cables and just one additional hole in the studs would have been able to accomodate my fronts/centre/sub cables...but it looks like an additional two holes would be required to run the Spectrum....

ughh...its all too hard

Ray,

You'll need to know which PJ you'll buy then you can then work out the most suitable throw distance (between the PJ lens and screen). Then instal timber between the roof trusses to take the PJ later. Run your cables from the PJ position to your HT gear just before the ceiling goes on. With mine, I installed the PJ lens dead centre to the screen and mounted it in the centre of the throw distance.

I think 100" x 16.9 screen is ample, bur some like them larger.

For a neat job (later) use wall plates for cables.

http://www.cliff.com.au/products/wallplates/wallplates.htm

http://www.htcustomcables.com

[rzkman]

Yes I will run the rears.

What do you think of my idea of loosely running an AC line and also my HDMI cable down the centre of the room.

This way, the plaster can go up (I will supervise them closely when it does to make sure they don't move the cable around) and when I have my screen and projector in hand, I can cut through the plaster at the required location to pull the AC and HDMI through.

Wonder if anyone has done this before...

Just run the cables in for the PJ and rear speakers no conduit is really needed.

You'll have to have to work out where the ceiling PP will go soon. Better start looking at PJ's if not already done so. Have the Epson Tw600 myself my 2nd PJ, love it.

Think the OZ screens are OK.

[Guest EZYHD]

Yes I will run the rears.

What do you think of my idea of loosely running an AC line and also my HDMI cable down the centre of the room.

Yes why not, as long a you can find them!.

[ozGremlin]

Just run the cables in for the PJ and rear speakers no conduit is really needed.

You'll have to have to work out where the ceiling PP will go soon. Better start looking at PJ's if not already done so. Have the Epson Tw600 myself my 2nd PJ, love it.

Think the OZ screens are OK.

Cool... Somone doing something I can help with!

From what you have said, I presume that there is no known way to gain access to the roof cavity once the plasterer is done - if that is so, there are several things you want to do now, as follows:

1. Run speaker wire for your rear speakers. You will need to make some decisions about where they are going. My advice is to go to an eletrical wholesaler and buy a role of good quality speaker wire. It will cost less than anything an AV seller will charge and will be as good as if not better. I'll offer hints on cables versus tradesmen in a minute!

2. Get some carpentry done for your projector - it's going to need some decent woodwork to hold it up on the ceiling - so you need some wood there for that. You don't need to decide too much about the projector, you need to get some decent wood in the ceiling along the screen's "centre-line" in the range from say 4-7m back from the screen. This will give you plenty of placment options when the time comes. Remember the PJ cables when doing this - see below.

3. Run video cables for your PJ - Regardless of what you think you need, run at least HDMI, Component, S-Video, and VGA. Places like DSE and Jaycar sell 10-15m versions of these cables that are pretty solid in quality and don't cost anything like what the AV pukes want to charge. I'll talk more about hanging cables later.

4. Get power a power point installed in the roof at the rear of the room along the centreline. Get another one installed on the front wall up high - on the right hand side of the screen. (In case you ever go motorised). Get one of the small plastic man holes installed (They cost about $30 at Bunnings, measure around 200mm square, and are a snap to DIY install after the plasterer!) for your in-ceiling power point so you can acess it when installing the PJ.

The above should cover most things that I came across. Now moving on to specific hints for doing some of this:

1. When running cables, let them touch the floor at both ends. You will want the slack when you install the wall plates later.

2. Where ever a cable is in the wall, place a crayon/chalk/texta/marking paint mark on the floor. When that shiny new plaster is up it's going to be much harder than you think to find things. Plasterers sometimes knock holes and pull cables through, but often not. If there is also some insulation involved, things get fiddly fast!

3. Avoid any desire to cable tie, tape, or otherwise attach cables to anything - it makes it difficult to do almost everything later.

4. Consider dropping a draw wire through to the PJ, to give yourself a chance of pulling through another cable later. (Should the unthinkable happen!)

5. After every tradesman has been through, double check that your cables are still how you require them - they often have an interesting attitude to whose problem it is!

6. When you setup the timber work for the PJ, remember that you need to get the cables through in such a way that you can retrieve them from inside the room, without making the mother of all holes. If you can run the cables precisely down the centre-line, on the underside of the timber (Just do not cross any of the plaster battons - that asks for a nail strike from that zealous plasterer!) that will work well. Just keep the cables in mind when you start attaching your PJ bracket.

Hope that helps - my own experience only.

Feel free to get in touch if you'd like to discuss anything in more detail.

ozGremlin

[Guest EZYHD]

ozGremlin

Very well said.

I agree instal at least component, video s and of course HDMI to/from PJ, draw string a good idea.

and...

One little thing, wrap up the cable ends where they go into gear with a plastic bag, painters are known for splashing around.

[ozGremlin]

ozGremlin

Very well said.

I agree instal at least component, video s and of course HDMI to/from PJ, draw string a good idea.

and...

One little thing, wrap up the cable ends where they go into gear with a plastic bag, painters are known for splashing around.

Rational for VGA is things like an XBox360 or a PC where the HDMI might already be in use. The VGA connector on a PJ is often usable for RGB from scart equipped devices.

Covering the pointy ends of cables is one I forgot! I also broke my own rules by tying cables together at the "necks" (Just behind said plastic bag) so when I was fishing for them in the wall (Amazing how good you will get with a coat hanger!) if I found one, I found all!

You might like to consider if you are ever going to get into home automation in this room - you might like to drop some lengths of Cat-5 cable to all the light switches/power points/etc in case. If you do this, think about what is going to power the little motors in the curtains - and run Cat-5 to those power points as well.

Then you need to start thinking about colours, curtains, pelmets, etc. Light control is a big deal in a PJ setup.

Cheers,

ozGremlin

[Guest EZYHD]

Forgot too, yes Cat5 good idea.

for instance, I'm using ICETV with a new 24" iMac and forgot to run Cat5 to Toppy STB, as luck has it, I am able to chase Cat5 in as have spare VGA in wall between Toppy and computer.

[ozGremlin]

Forgot too, yes Cat5 good idea.

for instance, I'm using ICETV with a new 24" iMac and forgot to run Cat5 to Toppy STB, as luck has it, I am able to chase Cat5 in as have spare VGA in wall between Toppy and computer.

You see, there's some more I fogot - you are going to need to give considerable thought to where your equipment is going to sit. You are more than likely going to need some or all of the following:

1. Power for anything up 8 devices

2. Ethernet cabling for internet access (PVR for guide, Xbox 360 for Xbox Live, MCE just to be alive, etc)

3. Antenna in for anything with tuners. I suggest you run a few of these and allow for a possible fox install in the future.

4. Depending upon you house setup, you might want some extra Cat-5 and RF (Coax) to allow for outbound signals.

Also think about the placement of your various power, data, antenna points - it's always nice if the cabinetry completely hides all these un-wife-friendly things that you've now stacked along the front wall!

I didn't talk about it before, but there are a number of good wall plates available for all of this stuff, but be sitting when the price comes out - the plate for you projector cables alone will cost you $100, and you may need two of them. Personally, I didn't worry about plates at the PJ end, but did them properly on the front wall.

Cheers,

ozGremlin

[Aspect]

I'd definately go the scope screen. I found here when I first joined a little calculation that I use. I ended up with a 3m wide scope screen.

The cal is something like 3.69 x height of the screen = distance from screen to sit.

Worked out perfect for me. 4.5m back from the screen divided by 3.69 = 1.21m high screen. Just rounded it up a bit. It's very "enveloping", without having to pan from side to side.

Also, with your mounting problems in the ceiling, just get the builders to mount a couple of big MDF boards above the trusses.

Cheers,

Chris

[ozGremlin]

I'd definately go the scope screen. I found here when I first joined a little calculation that I use. I ended up with a 3m wide scope screen.

The cal is something like 3.69 x height of the screen = distance from screen to sit.

Worked out perfect for me. 4.5m back from the screen divided by 3.69 = 1.21m high screen. Just rounded it up a bit. It's very "enveloping", without having to pan from side to side.

Also, with your mounting problems in the ceiling, just get the builders to mount a couple of big MDF boards above the trusses.

Cheers,

Chris

I'm not sure the "MDF boards over the trusses" is going to work in this case where there is no cavity access available. I think he needs to get some timberwork done such that there is some load bearing frames above the centreline so that he can use something like bugle screws from inside the room to screw directly in.

ozGremlin

[Aspect]

Yeah, it'd be fine.

Just have the MDF board fixed between the trusses, so when the plaster is on, he can choose where the projector has to go, and then just belt in a couple of wood screws through the plaster and firmly into the MDF.

You're only talking a few kilo's, and the load has no leverage.

I just sat a large piece of MDF in my roof cavity and mounted the PJ mount and the sled rails straight to it. I haven't fixed the MDF board to the trusses, as there's no need to because the board is large enough that it spreads the load across the plaster and it's mounting strips. No sagging, no woofing. No movement whatsoever.

Cheers,

Chris

[rzkman]

Hi Guys,

Appreciate all the help and information so far. Ozgremlin I had to read your posting a few times to digest it all! Thanks for that. I suspect I did not give a full picture as to the orientation and construction of my ceiling space. Its not the typical roof cavity. Maybe these pictures might help.

This first picture is from the point of view of where the audience will be sitting. The posistruts run east-west and the screen is on the north wall.

http://rzk.smugmug.com/photos/153463637-L.jpg

This second picture shows the centre line and as you can see the electrician as left a loose AC wire there. Ignore the wallpate, I will be removing until I am 100% sure where my projector will be mounted.

http://rzk.smugmug.com/photos/153463594-L.jpg

Given this orientation, where do you suggest I mount the MDF? Again, I have to apologise as I am not the 'handy' type and what might seem like a simple solution to some is a bit of stretch for me. I guess that is why I am asking for some help.

Would a possible solution be to have the plaster go up, then put the MDF onto the ceiling by securing it to the struts? I imagine this would still look ok once it was painted over.

Anyway I am open to ideas.

Cheers,

Ray

[Guest EZYHD]

Hi Guys,

Would a possible solution be to have the plaster go up, then put the MDF onto the ceiling by securing it to the struts? I imagine this would still look ok once it was painted over.

Anyway I am open to ideas.

Cheers,

Ray

No don't put the MDF up after the ceiling is on it will look very ugly. The guys here can correct me if I'm wrong but 4m from 100" x 16.9 screen to Pj is about the norm. So if your not capable of intalling the MDF ask a friend or the builder to do it for you. From the looks of it you'll need to do that and run the cables very soon.

[Aspect]

Just to cover yourself, mark the roof trusses at 4m back from the viewing wall, and then install MDF panels so that you have 1m in front of the mark, and 1m back. that'll give you HEAPS of scope for projector positioning.

So, you've got 2m worth of MDF running front to back, in the middle of the room, with the centre point of the 2m being 4m back from the front wall.

Clear as mud?

Chris

[AndrewW]

I have a 4.5m x 7m room.

I could have fit a 110" screen, but after throwing an image onto the wall I decided a 96" screen was the best compromise between size and usable brightness from the projector.

I'd definitely run the cables before you gyprock, make sure you get the sparky to put a power point up in the ceiling for you.

Andrew.

[Tasty]

Hey there, I see a lot of advice to go for a smaller than 120" screen when viewing from 5-6 meters. This is, of course, a personal preference and you need to suit yourself. I'm currently projecting to 150" and viewing from about 5 meters and to me it's close to perfect. Good quality HD looks amazing at this size even only 720p. Calc'ing the viewing angle puts me pretty much in the THX 'sweet spot' according to one online calculator I've used. IMO the angle is similar to viewing in a full size theatre about 2/3 back (ie. behind the middle row). So from this distance decreasing the screen will push you back further and while the back row of the theatre is fun it's usually because of the privacy and the girl rather than the immersive view. My screen at home in Aus is a 110" and as soon as we get back it'll be gone and replaced with a much larger one, once you've experienced it big it's very hard to go back... that came out wrong :-). Enjoy your new theatre mate.

[norpus]

Hey there, I see a lot of advice to go for a smaller than 120" screen when viewing from 5-6 meters. This is, of course, a personal preference and you need to suit yourself. I'm currently projecting to 150" and viewing from about 5 meters and to me it's close to perfect. Good quality HD looks amazing at this size even only 720p. Calc'ing the viewing angle puts me pretty much in the THX 'sweet spot' according to one online calculator I've used. IMO the angle is similar to viewing in a full size theatre about 2/3 back (ie. behind the middle row). So from this distance decreasing the screen will push you back further and while the back row of the theatre is fun it's usually because of the privacy and the girl rather than the immersive view. My screen at home in Aus is a 110" and as soon as we get back it'll be gone and replaced with a much larger one, once you've experienced it big it's very hard to go back... that came out wrong :-). Enjoy your new theatre mate.

Tasty, do you have a turbo boost on that ae700 or something? Or a 3 gain screen maybe?

My ae700 really struggled on a 108" 1.0 gain screen after 1000hrs - it was down to <5ftL which is 'not bright'. On a 150" screen, you'd need a light cannon and there a very few home projectors I think that could attempt this properly.

I agree big is nice, but not at the expense of a bright well resolved image.

[Roderick]

rzkman, your ceiling beams are so close together I doubt that you will have any problems mounting a projector -- no need for an MDF plate. Just make sure you know where the beams are before the plaster goes up -- measure them from the front wall and note the distances down. Use long screws into the beams through the plaster.

Apart from possible (but improbable) legal complications, you can save yourself a bit of money by installing your own power points. By investing in a non-contact voltage detector from DSE ($20), you can be asolutely sure there are no live wires before you start stripping insulation, twisting wires together and fixing them in the screw terminals. As an amater you will be far more careful that most sparkies, who have been known to wire up switches etc without turning off the power! .

Rod

[drubie]

A couple of things I learned after installing a PJ:

1) Good quality VGA is fine for component signals, assuming your project can resolve RGB/Component on that connector. Save a bit of hassle and stick with just that cable, plus another composite cable for plain video.

2) I pulled S-Video and composite, but never used the S-Video. The big difference is how good the comb filter on your projector is. If it's better than your S-Video sources, there is no point in using the s-video at all. Even my cheap Benq PB6200 has a better comb filter than a playstation 2 or an Austar satellite box - the extra palaver isn't worth it. If you've got older devices (VCR and laserdisc, for example, the signals are composite anyway.

3) I didn't pull HDMI as I haven't got a single thing that uses it. I'm taking a punt that most devices will be cracked to do full 1080p over component anyway. Sure, the PJ doesn't have HDMI either. If I upgraded the PJ and wanted HDMI, the extra hassle of pulling another cable might be bad, but probably not as bad as the cost of the HDMI devices

4) The tip of using proper wall plates at the equipment end is a good one. I bought a combination of pre-made plates and the snap-in type plate you can get from electrical contractor suppliers. The snap-in plate has all the antenna and netowork wiring in it.

5) You need a CAT-5 or CAT-6 plug near your equipment stack. You mightn't be using it today, but you will be using it next year.

6) Never let your wife see all the bills

[c912039]

A couple of things I learned after installing a PJ:

...

6) Never let your wife see all the bills

...

Amen to that!