MdMa11 Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 I plan on getting a Krix Neuphonix, Epicentrix etc.. setup with a new AV Receiver... something that can handle the new formats (DTS MA). After a small amount of research some questions need to be asked... I gather the lower the AWG rating the better... is anything better than 14 AWG necessary? The more strands the better? What connections (banana, spade etc) will I have to use or what is best? Just in case any one asks I am not a total noob... I have made my own Cat5 cables etc.
50mxe20 Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 MdMa said: Just in case any one asks I am not a total noob... I have made my own Cat5 cables etc.Maybe you'd get some help here.
Jliang70 Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 MdMa said: I plan on getting a Krix Neuphonix, Epicentrix etc.. setup with a new AV Receiver... something that can handle the new formats (DTS MA).After a small amount of research some questions need to be asked... I gather the lower the AWG rating the better... is anything better than 14 AWG necessary? The more strands the better? What connections (banana, spade etc) will I have to use or what is best? Just in case any one asks I am not a total noob... I have made my own Cat5 cables etc. I think the price of good speaker cables and interconnect cables are way over priced in Australia. I would recommend you to look at some of US sites for your cable purchase sites such as www.catcables.com, www.signalcable.com, www.pearcable.com and pearcable has a complete listing of US cable makers from ultra expensive to good budget cables. It is difficult to say that a thicker cable will be the better cable and I am using a pair of Audio Notes Copper twisted cable which is thinner than the thickest cable that you can get from place like JB HiFi but it sounds much better. As for connection such as Banana and spade I think they are used for easy connectivity and also prevent erosion with bare wire connection. It is not necessary to use either spade or banana plugs to terminate your cable. Of the popular brand I think Audio Notes, Audioquest and Taralab are well overpriced both here and overseas. Neotech has some good products but their good to best products are not available in Australia and are just as expensive as the other 3. I am also considering to have a cable upgrade in my system and I have already upgraded my interconnect to Catcable Silvercat. From my short experience using Catcable they have very good product range and the sound quality of Silvercat is better than my $300 AN-C cable and better than anything in its range. I recommend you to look at custom made cables from the like of Catcables and Signalcables and I am sure you will find their price more appealing than the cable price here in Australia.
OakenShield1 Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 MdMa, 14AWG? It all depends on the length of cable you need to run your setup IMHO. 16 would probably be fine in most cases. It has been heavily debated on this forum whether is makes a difference or not. The more strands the better? Generally, yes, but same as above. As Jliang70 has said you don't need to use any connections on it. I would probably use banana plugs personally though (Even though I haven't yet!)
Andre281503560612 Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) may i hijack this thread a little? I bought some jaycar cable but at the time didnt realize i would need a special tool to strip the shielding at the ends. So i used household scissors, knives etc, and i know that in some cases i may have cut through one or two of the copper wire strands. Is this any sort of issue? Edited September 17, 2007 by Andre28
Gutty Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 Andre28 said: may i hijack this thread a little?I bought some jaycar cable but at the time didnt realize i would need a special tool to strip the shielding at the ends. So i used household scissors, knives etc, and i know that in some cases i may have cut through one or two of the copper wire strands. Is this any sort of issue? No, not at all.
MdMa11 Posted September 18, 2007 Author Posted September 18, 2007 jliang70 said: I think the price of good speaker cables and interconnect cables are way over priced in Australia. I would recommend you to look at some of US sites for your cable purchase sites such as www.catcables.com, www.signalcable.com, www.pearcable.com and pearcable has a complete listing of US cable makers fromultra expensive to good budget cables. It is difficult to say that a thicker cable will be the better cable and I am using a pair of Audio Notes Copper twisted cable which is thinner than the thickest cable that you can get from place like JB HiFi but it sounds much better. As for connection such as Banana and spade I think they are used for easy connectivity and also prevent erosion with bare wire connection. It is not necessary to use either spade or banana plugs to terminate your cable. Of the popular brand I think Audio Notes, Audioquest and Taralab are well overpriced both here and overseas. Neotech has some good products but their good to best products are not available in Australia and are just as expensive as the other 3. I am also considering to have a cable upgrade in my system and I have already upgraded my interconnect to Catcable Silvercat. From my short experience using Catcable they have very good product range and the sound quality of Silvercat is better than my $300 AN-C cable and better than anything in its range. I recommend you to look at custom made cables from the like of Catcables and Signalcables and I am sure you will find their price more appealing than the cable price here in Australia. The cables you mention, in particular signalcable, are quite pricey. They are charging (for their lowest end "classic" speaker cable) USD$11.50 p/ft for the first 6ft, then USD$4.00 p/ft after... mind you these prices are including the terminations. Now this is for: 4 stranded copper conductors, Total of 76 Bare copper strands Insulation for each conductor - PE Shield - None Outer Jacket - Polyvinylchloride Effective gauge size per channel - 13awg Geometry - Internal Twisted, Cross Linked ELECTRICAL CHARACTERISTICS Nom. Capacitance - 21.8 pF/ft Nom. Conductor DC Resistance - 4.2 Ω/1000 ft Can someone explain to me how this price could be justified against something like this ???
MdMa11 Posted September 18, 2007 Author Posted September 18, 2007 OakenShield said: MdMa,14AWG? It all depends on the length of cable you need to run your setup IMHO. 16 would probably be fine in most cases. It has been heavily debated on this forum whether is makes a difference or not. The more strands the better? Generally, yes, but same as above. As Jliang70 has said you don't need to use any connections on it. I would probably use banana plugs personally though (Even though I haven't yet!) The room is almost 5m long... thats it. I guess if I were to run the cable along to the walls to the furthest rear speaker it might be as long as 10m max...just to be safe.
brodricj Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Go here and click on the cable theory tab, makes for interesting reading: http://www.audioquest.com/
Jliang70 Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) MdMa said: The room is almost 5m long... thats it.I guess if I were to run the cable along to the walls to the furthest rear speaker it might be as long as 10m max...just to be safe. Nobody said good cable are cheap and there is a general understanding amongst AV hobbists to spend about 10% of the budget on good cabling. Now you are using a good set of main speakers that is around $3000 and a centre speaker costing $1999, now you got to ask yourself this question would cheap cable bring out the best sound out of your equipment. You can obviously do it on the cheap by buying cheap cables but you won't be able to realize the full potential of your system. I don't suggest you to run 10 meters of good cable on furtherest rear speakers or your rear speakers, in fact if you speak to people like Doug from catcables or any speicalists in AV shops you would likely to find they would never advise potential buyers buying their expensive speaker cable to run rear channel speakers. You need to put most of your speaker cabling expense on your 3 main channels the mains and centre. Edited September 19, 2007 by jliang70
kodaz Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) Without getting into the argument over cables if you are looking at some well built and not too expensive cables try www.bluejeanscable.co.uk That is their international site but they are a US based company that makes high quality cables witthout the marketing fluff. Maybe read their Artciles page or if you want a more in depth look into cables Audioholics has agreat Truth about Interconnects and Cables article. Here is a pic of my blue jeans cables including 50m of 10AWG speaker cable that was about $150 delivered. Edited September 19, 2007 by Kodaz
Mining Man Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 Gutty said: No, not at all. That's a bit harsh Gutty, it was a pretty simple question. Or were you answering the second question?
Gutty Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 Mining Man said: That's a bit harsh Gutty, it was a pretty simple question.Or were you answering the second question? Smartass... Answering his second question
Mr Ploppy Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 Have a look at these guys; http://www.psraudio.com.au Prices seem pretty good. I got all my cable and banana plugs etc sent very swiftly.
Jliang70 Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) Mr Ploppy said: Have a look at these guys;http://www.psraudio.com.au Prices seem pretty good. I got all my cable and banana plugs etc sent very swiftly. Yes, their price is very attractive and I am going to try out their Silver speakers cable to see how it compare to my current 3 metre AN twisted pair cable. Edited September 19, 2007 by jliang70
MdMa11 Posted September 19, 2007 Author Posted September 19, 2007 jliang70 said: Yes, their price is very attractive and I am going to try out their Silver speakers cable to see how it compare to my current 3 metre AN twisted pair cable. I can handle the price of the PSR SilverHS cables... with that said though.... Which would you choose.... and why? PSR SilverHS NEOTECH 1 NEOTECH 2
Jliang70 Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) MdMa said: I can handle the price of the PSR SilverHS cables... with that said though....Which would you choose.... and why? PSR SilverHS NEOTECH 1 NEOTECH 2 Given PSRAudio indicated that their cable is of pure 99.99% silver I would give them a try because from my experience using good pure silver interconnect cable I find silver cable generally has much better extended dynamic and this is specially true at frequency extreme and the sound of silver is smoother. I am not saying the other two cables are bad but on the information available PSR cable looks better value than the other two. Remember from PSR you are getting a pair of 5 metres cable that is terminated with banana plug, for the other two cables you can terminate them yourself. Neotech 1 will cost you around $210+ and Neotech 2 cost you around $150+. I am trying the PSR cable myself because I think it is a bargain and if I get it deliver today and I will be able to tell you how I feel about this cable in the next few days. Edited September 19, 2007 by jliang70
MdMa11 Posted September 20, 2007 Author Posted September 20, 2007 jliang70 said: I am trying the PSR cable myself because I think it is a bargain and if I get it deliver today and I will be able to tell you how I feel about this cable in the next few days. I would be eager to hear your impression of this cable compared to your current cable.
Aspect Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 www.kordz.com.au Australian company, excellent products, excellent customer service, no B/S, extremely well priced. I've bought my speaker cable from them, and intend on buying all my interconnects from them once I get my entertainment unit made in a couple of weeks. I called and spoke to David (the owner), and although he didn't know me from a bar of soap, was happy to speak to me for ages about what was good and bad, what I should and shouldn't buy, and bent over backwards to help me out. He terminated some of my cables for me free of charge, so I could "see how it's done so I can do the rest". Even though I am by no means an authority in all things HT, for what it's worth, I have nothing but high praise for them. Cheers, Chris
Gutty Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 Prior said: www.kordz.com.auAustralian company, excellent products, excellent customer service, no B/S, extremely well priced. I've bought my speaker cable from them, and intend on buying all my interconnects from them once I get my entertainment unit made in a couple of weeks. I called and spoke to David (the owner), and although he didn't know me from a bar of soap, was happy to speak to me for ages about what was good and bad, what I should and shouldn't buy, and bent over backwards to help me out. He terminated some of my cables for me free of charge, so I could "see how it's done so I can do the rest". Even though I am by no means an authority in all things HT, for what it's worth, I have nothing but high praise for them. Cheers, Chris HTCustomCables gets alot of good feedabck around here, and are the NSW Kordz dealers. I have alot of their stuff, in custom lengths. Very happy with the service and products.
daniel C Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 lol @ people who get sucked in by the marketing hype. copper is a better conductor than silver anyway, silver and gold just have better corrosion resistance, thus why they are used in a lot of extreme applications, which has led to a general impression among people that they are somehow magically better conductors, and statements like this: "I find silver cable generally has much better extended dynamic and this is specially true at frequency extreme and the sound of silver is smoother." No offence mate, but this is absolute rubbish. At the end of the day, you are sending an analogue electrical signal, down a solid conductor which has Negligible losses anyway, the only way you can induce losses into that cable at all, is by overloading it, cutting into several strands, or introducing "interference" from electromagnetic radiation. unless you are running a high voltage cable next to your speaker cable, this is negligible if the cable is even remotely well built and shielded. I mean hell, the base plastic shielding on my jaycar speaker wire is more than enough to completely shield it from most household appliance wires. People, its your money, but at the end of the day, either do a blind test at the store to try and tell the difference, or do some basic reading up about electrical theory. unless you are talking about ultra ultra cheap wire from china that is 28AWG, most cable will be fine. its electrons you are sending, not a baby.
Jliang70 Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) daniel C said: lol @ people who get sucked in by the marketing hype. copper is a better conductor than silver anyway, silver and gold just have better corrosion resistance, thus why they are used in a lot of extreme applications, which has led to a general impression among people that they are somehow magically better conductors, and statements like this:"I find silver cable generally has much better extended dynamic and this is specially true at frequency extreme and the sound of silver is smoother." No offence mate, but this is absolute rubbish. At the end of the day, you are sending an analogue electrical signal, down a solid conductor which has Negligible losses anyway, the only way you can induce losses into that cable at all, is by overloading it, cutting into several strands, or introducing "interference" from electromagnetic radiation. unless you are running a high voltage cable next to your speaker cable, this is negligible if the cable is even remotely well built and shielded. I mean hell, the base plastic shielding on my jaycar speaker wire is more than enough to completely shield it from most household appliance wires. People, its your money, but at the end of the day, either do a blind test at the store to try and tell the difference, or do some basic reading up about electrical theory. unless you are talking about ultra ultra cheap wire from china that is 28AWG, most cable will be fine. its electrons you are sending, not a baby. Sorry, Danielc good cable do makes a difference, just because you use Jaycar cable and have not use other cable does not mean much to this debate it is not what you think but what you hear when it comes to sound quality. 'copper is a better conductor than Silver anyway' Where did you read that rubbish ? You probably failed you high school physics or haven't done any study of physics to come to believe that copper is the best conductor, do some research please before posting if you don't know what you are talking about. Silver is best conductor currently available but copper is used more widely because it is a lot cheaper than silver. If reading electrical theory leads you to the conclusion that Copper is a better conductor than Silver, can you please inform the group the name of the book and the author of the book. I will be very surprised that the author's name is not DanielC. Also Daniel does electrical theory will tell you why this cable make the sound much clearer than the other one, the cables appear to be the same has the same thickness and both use 99.9997% OFC but sound differently so what can electrical theory tell us here. The only bit of advice you have offerred that is valid in this discussion is to audition the cable with your equipment othwerwise 95% of what you posted is rubbish. Edited September 21, 2007 by jliang70
djOS Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 OakenShield said: MdMa,14AWG? It all depends on the length of cable you need to run your setup IMHO. 16 would probably be fine in most cases. It has been heavily debated on this forum whether is makes a difference or not. The more strands the better? Generally, yes, but same as above. As Jliang70 has said you don't need to use any connections on it. I would probably use banana plugs personally though (Even though I haven't yet!) Krix actually recomended 14AWG to me as they believe 16AWG will result in some bass loss - they actually recomended the Kordz Spectrum (and the new Kordz Master) cables to me but im currently using the cheaper Kordz Velocity 216 (16AWG) cause I blew the budget by buying a Wii and ran out of money.
MdMa11 Posted September 21, 2007 Author Posted September 21, 2007 jliang70 said: Sorry, Danielc good cable do makes a difference, just because you use Jaycar cable and have not use other cable does not mean much to this debate it is not what you think but what you hear when it comes to sound quality. 'copper is a better conductor than Silver anyway' Where did you read that rubbish ? You probably failed you high school physics or haven't done any study of physics to come to believe that copper is the best conductor, do some research please before posting if you don't know what you are talking about. Silver is best conductor currently available but copper is used more widely because it is a lot cheaper than silver. If reading electrical theory leads you to the conclusion that Copper is a better conductor than Silver, can you please inform the group the name of the book and the author of the book. I will be very surprised that the author's name is not DanielC. Also Daniel does electrical theory will tell you why this cable make the sound much clearer than the other one, the cables appear to be the same has the same thickness and both use 99.9997% OFC but sound differently so what can electrical theory tell us here. The only bit of advice you have offerred that is valid in this discussion is to audition the cable with your equipment othwerwise 95% of what you posted is rubbish. Hmmm from a quick search through a few articles they say Silver is a better conductor than Copper by about 5-6%. Granted a small margin, but better none the less.
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