Major_Ass Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Hi sorry about the post in the other thread I'll add a link in it to this thread.... Ok Since I started that previous thread and obviously got no real help as it was posted in the wrong section (sorry again)... I have played with the Booster on my TV Antenna turning the gain's up and down for both UHF and VHF.. I kept checking the picture as I made incremental changes all the way through but nothing seemed to change Channel 10.. I've also changed cables, reset the STB, disconnected electrical equipment, etc etc (even tho nothing new has been added in my house). Its been roughly a week now, and channel 10 just looks like digital lines with the occasional picture in between. (But every now and then it does come clear and is completely watchable as it was a week ago) then back to the digital lines and no sound... As I type this msg I am looking at 10 on my other PC with the Fusion HDTV capture card and it shows the signal strength to be 100% and SNR varying between 26db -28db The picture and sound is unwatchable. The other channels for reference: (All completely watchable and nice smooth picture quality with digital sound) ABCHDTV 100% 28-29db 7HD 100% 31-32db WINHD 100% 29-30db SBSHD 100% 30db I appreciate any help in advance.
charlesc Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I appreciate any help in advance.Hi again in the 'better' thread .Just a quick thought, the readings you are showing for the digital card seem very good, almost too good. Perhaps you have too much signal? That can cause similar problems to too little. If that is the case, you need to install some attenuation. Or maybe your booster is just lifting the level, which won't neccessarily help in reducing received erors. What is your reception setup? Indoor/outddor antenna, proximity to transmitters etc. There is a booster there obviously. What sort of antenna?
alanh Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Major Ass, Read Get the Best Reception, Regional Queensland and read the links. Your transmitter source is Wide Bay. Note you need a band 3 vertically polarised antenna for all channels except SBS which is UHF band 4 horizontally polarised. Use the links in the above link to get details on models. AlanH
charlesc Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 ...and it shows the signal strength to be 100% and SNR varying between 26db -28db The picture and sound is unwatchable.The other channels for reference: (All completely watchable and nice smooth picture quality with digital sound) ABCHDTV 100% 28-29db 7HD 100% 31-32db WINHD 100% 29-30db SBSHD 100% 30db As mentioned, check your levels. The readings seem to be high. Your transmitter info should be:- ABC On-Air VHF 9A Vert 205.625 MHz Broadcast Site MT GOONANEMAN SEVEN On-Air VHF 7 Vert 184.5 MHz Broadcast Site MT GOONANEMAN WIN On-Air VHF 10 Vert 212.5 MHz Broadcast Site MT GOONANEMAN SC10 On-Air VHF 9 Vert 198.625 MHz Broadcast Site MT GOONANEMAN SBS On-Air UHF 28 Hor 529.5 MHz Broadcast Site MT GOONANEMAN
Major_Ass Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) The antenna is outdoors, it has a GME Kingray amplifier on it, with UHF and VHF.. here is a photo... http://erichall.gallery.netspace.net.au/al...m01/antenna.jpg Google Earth puts me roughly 65kms (straight line) from MT GOONANEMAN.. My Biggest Question about all this is why would it work perfectly fine for months and months and now all of a sudden I can't watch Channel 10? Look forward to your replies, charlesc and alanh.. oh Analogue 10 works fine also.. Edited October 3, 2007 by Major_Ass
alanh Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Major_ass, If you were complaining about SBS then TEN and WIN would be relevant but in digital they are irrelevant because they are all using the horizontal part of your antenna. All of your digital programs except SBS are using the vertical parts of the antenna. I would expect you have a fault. The most likely causes are; Set top box. Go into install and do a rescan ensuring that you tell it you are in Qld. Try a different digital receiver. Cabling Does you antenna cabling go only to an STB or does it go elsewhere. The STB should be connected to the power injector, and onto the antenna. If a splitter is used this leg must be AC/DC pass. Check all connections for corrosion and good contact of the centre and shields. Levels going into the signal were too low or too high. Get an antenna installer to measure the levels and error rates. AlanH
Major_Ass Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 Major_ass,If you were complaining about SBS then TEN and WIN would be relevant but in digital they are irrelevant because they are all using the horizontal part of your antenna. All of your digital programs except SBS are using the vertical parts of the antenna. I would expect you have a fault. The most likely causes are; Set top box. Go into install and do a rescan ensuring that you tell it you are in Qld. Try a different digital receiver. Cabling Does you antenna cabling go only to an STB or does it go elsewhere. The STB should be connected to the power injector, and onto the antenna. If a splitter is used this leg must be AC/DC pass. Check all connections for corrosion and good contact of the centre and shields. Levels going into the signal were too low or too high. Get an antenna installer to measure the levels and error rates. AlanH I have checked with my STB and two Fusion HDTV cards in PC's, all do the exact same thing on different outlets in the house which makes me believe its not the hardware... (receiver) I have reset them all, rescanned and defiantly checked that I selected QLD... I think its more to do with cableing/antenna or disturbance somewhere else.. Would bypassing the amplifier be worth a try? Remembering that only a week ago all was fine, and i'd been using the same setup with out any issues, (I have not added anything Electrical to the house since either) I am completely baffled as to why this is doing this... When I first setup my STB I did have initial troubles with 10, and a cpl of other channels but it turned out to be a crappy cable from the wall socket to the STB. (I think there may be a thread here I started along time ago about it.) But as it came good I didn't bother with it again.. that was probably a year ago now.
charlesc Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 My Biggest Question about all this is why would it work perfectly fine for months and months and now all of a sudden I can't watch Channel 10? Have you had a look at the docs linked to in my sig below? That will explain a lot of useful info about digital TV reception (which may help to explain why the above may happen). I would also be trying an attenuator. Maybe start reading here. You can have reception problems if the signal is too high or too low. Or has too many errors. Look here for info on the receiver 'operating window'. As mentioned a couple of times already above, I think your readings of around 100% and 29 - 30dB are high. I know the readings are estimates, and uncalibrated, but they may be indicative. And they seem to indicate a strong signal. Probably because of your amp. And strong does not mean they are good signals with low errors, by the way. The problem is, without some proper readings from your system, it is difficult to guess what the problem may be. You may be overloading your masthead amp with a few unwanted analogue channels (as well as the digital ones). With the amp in circuit, you are a bit limited as to what you can try by adding/removing or substituting bits.
charlesc Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Would bypassing the amplifier be worth a try? Absolutely. Could you do that? Do you know what to do? Is access easy enough? EDIT: Do you think you are in a reasonable signal area? What sort of antennas do people around you have? Are they very big or high? Different type to you? pointing somwhere else? Edited October 3, 2007 by charlesc
Major_Ass Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) So charlesc, do rekon I should try it without the amplifier? which I can do come the weekend... Edit* yeh its easy as, just unhook it put the cable straight to the antenna, and unplug the transformer from the wall inside that creates the voltage for the amp. I'll put this problem on hold till the weekend and see what happens. Edited October 3, 2007 by Major_Ass
i hate tv Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 I am completely baffled as to why this is doing this... When I first setup my STB I did have initial troubles with 10, and a cpl of other channels but it turned out to be a crappy cable from the wall socket to the STB. (I think there may be a thread here I started along time ago about it.) But as it came good I didn't bother with it again.. that was probably a year ago now. Is it possible that the cable from the antenna to the wall socket is dodgy? New quad shield is only about $1.25/mtr from jaycar in the main street (Tridek lighting) just up from uncle dick's (smiths). Is it possible that something has damaged your aerial? Tree? Bird? It has been very windy here in Bundy over the past few weeks. It seems very weird that you are only having problems with ten, our original problems were with ABC and win. regards, Andrew Nth Bundy
charlesc Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 I have checked with my STB and two Fusion HDTV cards in PC's, all do the exact same thing on different outlets in the house which makes me believe its not the hardware... (receiver) As a matter of interest, what sort of levels were the other systems reporting? All showing pretty high? ..Edit* yeh its easy as.. Good. Go for it then .
Major_Ass Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 Is it possible that the cable from the antenna to the wall socket is dodgy? New quad shield is only about $1.25/mtr from jaycar in the main street (Tridek lighting) just up from uncle dick's (smiths).Is it possible that something has damaged your aerial? Tree? Bird? It has been very windy here in Bundy over the past few weeks. It seems very weird that you are only having problems with ten, our original problems were with ABC and win. regards, Andrew Nth Bundy Nah antenna seems fine, there's no obvious damage anyways, there's no tree's/plants near it, but i think i agree with your user name atm
Major_Ass Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) As a matter of interest, what sort of levels were the other systems reporting? All showing pretty high?Good. Go for it then . The STB shows 100% signal, 24-25db on all the channels (Toshiba STB) Photo of Channel ten.. http://erichall.gallery.netspace.net.au/al.../channelten.jpg Edited October 3, 2007 by Major_Ass
charlesc Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 ABCHDTV 100% 28-29db7HD 100% 31-32db WINHD 100% 29-30db SBSHD 100% 30db I know all cards/STBs/PVRs etc give different readings. Its just that these seem high. Strength is not as important in digital, as long as there is sufficient. Quality is arguably more important. I know my Tiny USB2 external USB tuners report levels like 80%, and dB of 26dB. If that was to go down to 22dB I would expect trouble. Have a look in this thread here for what may be a good reading.
i hate tv Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 The STB shows 100% signal, 24-25db on all the channels (Toshiba STB) Well that is just so very weird then..... Just looked at the pics of your aerial and whilst it certainly looks fine, it is alot more compact than the ones that I have recently seen popping up around Bundy. The matchmaster 01mm DG27 is around $95 from jaycar and solved everything for us instantly...... ok, so I lied, it solved it in about 2 hours after I removed the old crap, including the masthead booster and replaced it with the new DG27. We are in north bundy and are now receiving all stations on digital and anal log with no problems. We have a dual outlet as the primary outlet, one to the STB + TV, the other has a booster attached to it and runs 12Mtrs of quad shield to my computer, where it has a splitter which runs a further 15mtrs to our bedroom and loungeroom TV. None of the 4 TVs (STB on the loungeroom without booster, and pewter with booster) have any signal problems now, all show as being 90-95% strength and 90-95% signal quality.
charlesc Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Major_Ass, If you can receive sufficient signal with a 'good' antenna, then you are better off that way rather than using a smaller antenna and having to masthead amplify. If i hate tv has had success with the DG27, and they are available in town at Jaycar, that would probably be a good start. Once you have an OK signal from an antenna, to one point, and it checks out OK, then you can look at adding powered splitters etc to lift it sufficiently to allow a few points to be catered for. Jaycar have a few other products that you can use in terms of powered splitters or low noise distribution amps. Use RG6 and good quality connectors, preferably F-connectors. And crimp or use compression fittings, try and avoid the twist-on style. Edited October 3, 2007 by charlesc
Major_Ass Posted October 6, 2007 Author Posted October 6, 2007 (edited) Ok I took the Amplifier out of the loop, unplugged the amp transformer from the wall and disconnected it from the #1 antenna line.... so it is now running with out the amp... Analogue TV is completely unwatchable... "Fuzzy" Digital STB and Dvico tuners pick up all stations clear, except 10 which is completely gone now.... won't even find it when i do a search. OH* I also replaced the splitter in the roof with a 4 way F connector splitter... (for some reason the sparky who put the wires in the house had two separate splitters.. kinda unprofessional... but this still hasn't fixed my channel 10 reception. Im going to hook the amplifier back up (so analogue is still watchable as other ppl in the house don't have a STB or digital TV) Edited October 6, 2007 by Major_Ass
Major_Ass Posted October 6, 2007 Author Posted October 6, 2007 Ok, this is kinda annoying me now, after all that stuffin around yesterday, when i tested all the digital and analogue receivers in the house the picture quality was great, right into last night... Woke up dismornin to turn bathurst on one of the analogue TV's and there's lines through the picture... also my digital TV has droped considerable SNR db's on all channels... resulting in some unstability, but now its working fine again... Im really beginning to think this is an electrical disturbance between my antenna and MT GOONENMAN, as its not happening all the time, for example when i first got up at around 7.30am, ten digital was glitchy, now 1hr later ten digital is perfectly watchable.... I know my setup works as I went for months with out any hassles..
i hate tv Posted October 6, 2007 Posted October 6, 2007 Ok, this is kinda annoying me now, after all that stuffin around yesterday, when i tested all the digital and analogue receivers in the house the picture quality was great, right into last night... Woke up dismornin to turn bathurst on one of the analogue TV's and there's lines through the picture... also my digital TV has droped considerable SNR db's on all channels... resulting in some unstability, but now its working fine again... Im really beginning to think this is an electrical disturbance between my antenna and MT GOONENMAN, as its not happening all the time, for example when i first got up at around 7.30am, ten digital was glitchy, now 1hr later ten digital is perfectly watchable.... I know my setup works as I went for months with out any hassles.. I would still be inclined to believe that it was your antenna....... simply because if tit were something betweeen you and Mt Goonaneman then others would be experiencing the same, and the Australian Communications Authority would have investigated it. If you feel that this is the case, then contact them (number is in the whitepages), they will come out and do all sorts of tests, even checking the power poles in your area for cracked insulators (they use a really cool pair of binoculars to do this). I had a problem with electrical interference in Nanango a few years back and called them, they had it sorted in 2 weeks after they contacted ergon to have all the damaged insulators fixed. This MAY be your problem (cracked insulators, noisy local transformer etc) but I still think it is your aerial.... Here in Nth Bundy we have been seeing lots of cloud over the past few days, even having heavy moisure overnight, all this can easily alter the conductivity of your antenna and its ability to receive a signal. Whereabouts in Bundy are you located?
Major_Ass Posted October 6, 2007 Author Posted October 6, 2007 G'day i hate tv Im over in Avoca, I can defiantly say its not my antenna as its the same design as all the neighbours, and as I said its worked for months with digital flawlessly... Thanks for info about that Australian Communications Authority, I might just give them a call on Monday... is it a free service? Oh yeh, I went to Jaycar in town (got my 4 way splitter etc) and asked about his antenna's, he recommended to go to haymans electrical and get a better one, the brand jaycar sold where crap (exact words from jaycar salesman's mouth) I laughed cause i know u said u bought one and its worked perfectly.
i hate tv Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) G'day i hate tvIm over in Avoca, I can defiantly say its not my antenna as its the same design as all the neighbours, and as I said its worked for months with digital flawlessly... Thanks for info about that Australian Communications Authority, I might just give them a call on Monday... is it a free service? Oh yeh, I went to Jaycar in town (got my 4 way splitter etc) and asked about his antenna's, he recommended to go to haymans electrical and get a better one, the brand jaycar sold where crap (exact words from jaycar salesman's mouth) I laughed cause i know u said u bought one and its worked perfectly. **EDIT** Hi, the ACMA WAS PREVIOUSLY a free service, they now require a fee which may not be refundable. You can check their Website for more info and contacts. This LINK gives some info on complaints about TV reception. And this LINK to the DBA gives some more info on Digital troubleshooting. This LINK also provides some good info. It is extremely helpful if you can log details, such as: Time problem occurs weather at time of problem (windy, rain etc) chanels that are effected description of the effect (snow, pixelation etc) and it will also help if you can record a video or DVD of the station/s that are effected so that they can actually view the problem. On what jaycar said to you, Wow I am astounded that they would say soemthing like that.... They highly recomended the matchmaster that i bought from them, and it is strage that they would send you to someone else to spend $100. The antenna which I bought from them is shown on the list of best antennas for this area. Edited October 7, 2007 by i hate tv
i hate tv Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 Forgot to add this link to the ACMA for complaints: Assistance
alanh Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I hate TV This service has not been free in 20 years, unless the interference is common to all your neighbours and more. AlanH
Major_Ass Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 Ok, The Analogue TV reception is getting this... http://web.acma.gov.au/radcomm/publication...power_lines.htm threw its picture, but not as dense.. a lot more spread out but very similar in looks... Would this effect a Digital channel the power lines? What would be the effect on a digital channel be? is it like my channel ten? as pictured here... http://erichall.gallery.netspace.net.au/album01/channelten Can i just ring My local Electricity supplier, and say there might be a problem with there power lines, rather then spend $$ on ACMA to do the same thing?
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