xlr8or Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 NBA rox and so does Ten HD.. Love this decision...
davmel Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Regardless, I'd expect that if the rule was still in place channel 10 will simply make TenSD simulcast TenHD and OneSD will show other content. That's allowed in the rules and technically easy to do. TenHD is gone come April, the only HD channel will be OneHD. I think you meant OneHD in your post rather than TenHD.
Neon Kitten Posted October 30, 2008 Author Posted October 30, 2008 No need to, their plan was released in an ASX statement yesterday. A statement which has also now become their public press release (no surprises there, as it was written in comedically gushing PR-speak). Hey, we're just holding a public memorial service for all the HD content that will disappear from Australian TV next year. It's a major loss for Australian viewers. All the effort of producing locally made shows like Australian idol, Neighbours etc etc in HD will be for nothing. Precisely. Sure, I can increase my broadband download limit again, and grab 720p versions of the US shows and Torchwood; it's not as good as full 1080i HD (as anyone who's seen how good "Life" looks on Ten HD will understand) but it's better than Ten's blurry SD with middle-of-screen bright white logo and those damned bottom-of-screen white dots that they've refused to remove since digital TV started. But what about, say, "Rush"? There will be no high quality option for it at all. I'd wait for the Blu-Ray release of it, but if that happens at all it''ll likely be years away. It's time to start lobbying, folks. Write letters to the Green Guide and equivalents. Write one to Ten (which will doubtless be ignored, but it can't hurt).
Sambo90 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 This was mentioned before and I can't see why it wouldn't have worked. A 24/7 SD sports channel and their normal programming on another SD feed, with there being a combination of the two SD feeds on the HD feed. It would mean that they could have purely native HD stuff on the HD channel (keeps the HD enthusiats happy) and still have a 24/7 sport channel (which keeps the sports nuts happy) and in turn would keep people like me, who are both, very happy. We couldn't have that though as then there would only be Native HD stuff on the HD channel and that wouldn't work. Agree 100%.
bindi Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 plus it is not like anyone here is saying that the 24/7 sport channel should not happen, just that it should be on SD and not take over HD completely. if 10 had done this originally sports fans would not feel under attack or that anything had been taken away from them, it would have been a smooth transition with everybody happy, but now it is a huge fiasco.
davmel Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 plus it is not like anyone here is saying that the 24/7 sport channel should not happen, just that it should be on SD and not take over HD completely. if 10 had done this originally sports fans would not feel under attack or that anything had been taken away from them, it would have been a smooth transition with everybody happy, but now it is a huge fiasco. Everybody happy? When you see what HD will look like at 13Mbps and the two SD channels at 4Mbps each you won't be happy about the downgrade in visual quality.
Neon Kitten Posted October 30, 2008 Author Posted October 30, 2008 Everybody happy? When you see what HD will look like at 13Mbps and the two SD channels at 4Mbps each you won't be happy about the downgrade in visual quality. It'd be better than no HD at all...
merovingian Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Err, except for the teensy fact that those "pre produced shows" were MADE for broadcast TV, and people have an expectation that they'll be able to see them without having to pay for a subscription to something or hand over money to Apple... Sure, that's the convention. It's a bit like the concept of music albums - we are so used to the convention that we now believe the myth of the album as an artistic expression, when albums were invented purely because they were economically efficient under the old distribution models. Likewise, pre-produced TV shows have always been on broadcast TV because it was the only distribution system in decades past. That doesn't make it the best distribution method in the modern world. You only have to look at the complaints that many (especially you) make on these forums about how FTA networks treat TV shows. And also look at how most of the geeks around here are ad skipping. These sorts of shows won't be on broadcast TV for many more years. On-demand models of any kind will not happen on any significant scale in this country until broadband is sorted out (i.e. everyone has a decently fast connection and download limits are significantly increased or removed entirely). And that's simply never going to happen while Telstra has a stranglehold over the key infrastructure.TV on demand, IPTV, Tivo sucking down HD shows, NONE of this is in Australia's near future. The delivery infrastructure simply isn't there, and does not look like being there in the foreseeable future. In respect to IPTV, I totally agree it's not in the very near future. That's why I said Ten were ahead of the game.
pneu Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Im guessing it will be 720p @ 10-11mbps and it will look like turd just as ABCHD does. Theres no way it could handle fast moving sport.
digitalj Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Im guessing it will be 720p @ 10-11mbps and it will look like turd just as ABCHD does. Theres no way it could handle fast moving sport. then maybe they'll go down the 576p route
Locust Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm wondering if someone can tell me if this is a technically and legally valid way that Ten could have their One-HD service as well as keeping Ten-HD at times. Now, obviously with 24x7 sport, there are going to be times when even the sports tragics will have no interest in watching a sport in HD; I'm thinking maybe Thursday nights in winter, when Nine has the footy show in full swing, capturing 30% of the market and One-HD has nothing but amateur over-80s lawn bowls. Now, if they arranged their LCNs something like this: 1 - ONE HD - at most times, but when Ten-HD is active, this will point to the ONE-SD stream 10 - Ten-SD 24x7 11 - Ten-HD - only when ONE HD isn't active. When ONE-HD is screening, it just points to the normal Ten-SD stream 12 - ONE-SD 24x7 Is it possible to do that? Obviously there would only be one HD stream available at any one time. When LCN 1 is showing HD, then LCN 11 will just be a pointer to the Ten-SD stream. At times when there's no sport that needs to be shown in HD, then LCN 11 can be active in HD showing different programs from the regular LCN 10 SD stream. This would be seemless and the viewer would never know it was happening, unless they looked at their bitrate. Would it be legal? There would only ever be two SD streams and one HD stream, so as far as I can tell, it's not running more streams than they are allowed to.
digitalj Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) yes that's allowed, PRIME do a similar thing and disable their HD Stream whenever they don't have native HD, and changed the PID's around so that LCN 60 pointed to the SD Stream during these times. Only problem is there are a lot of non-compliant boxes out there that every time the PID's change, their STB will require rescanning, sometimes a full automatic rescan won't work and a factory default reset is required followed by a scan, viewers with these STB's will get so annoyed, they'll just use LCN's 10 and 12 (in the above instance) Edited October 30, 2008 by digitalj
pgdownload Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm wondering if someone can tell me if this is a technically and legally valid way that Ten could have their One-HD service as well as keeping Ten-HD at times. During HD Sports1______10_____11_____12_____Analogue OneSD__TenSD__OneHD__TenSD__TenSD(4:3) During no HD sport 1______10_____11_____12_____Analogue OneSD__TenSD__OneSD__TenHD__TenSD(4:3) [/font] At any given time, there's only 2 SD channels and 1 HD channel being transmitted, so it's technically no problem. (Just like Ten Digital used to do several years ago, switching the HD channel being "19" and "10" when there was a demo loop during daytime). As digital says, legally no issue (I don't think there's actually a legal restriction to showing 2 HD channels? just a technical one). Switching channel 'pointers' doesn't really work as a lot of boxes can't handle it. You could just ramp up and down the bitrate of each channel but this would make the SD channel suddenly unwatchable as it became HD. You'd also need to time the bitrates on both SD and HD channels witch would seem fiddly. Regards Peter Gillespie
digitalj Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 they could do it this way: have 4 permanently active streams as such: 1 -> ONE HD (when TEN HD is active, transmit a pure black signal at 500Kbps, when active, bitrate boosted back to 11Mbps with programming) 10 -> TEN SD 11 -> ONE SD 12 -> TEN HD (when ONE HD is active, transmit a pure black signal at 500Kbps, when active, bitrate boosted back to 11Mbps with Programming) I'm basing this on the theory that a pure black signal can get away with very, very low bitrates, e.g. credits on a DVD or Blu-ray Movie tend to have bitrates than 1Mbps. This would make it so that PID's are never changed.
davmel Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm basing this on the theory that a pure black signal can get away with very, very low bitrates, e.g. credits on a DVD or Blu-ray Movie tend to have bitrates than 1Mbps. This would make it so that PID's are never changed. No need to continue with a stream at low bitrate. Just remove the actual stream entirely but maintain the LCN's with the PID details. That's what TenHD and 7HD does overnight some times where for example TenHD stream is turned off and the TenSD channel goes up from 4.6Mbps to about 7.5Mbps and there is a large number of null packets (just over 10Mbps) to pad out the multiplex. But none of that would happen as that would require 3 independent channel presentations and ads. I highly suspect they only have the capacity to do only 2 simultaneous presentations and expanding to 3 would involve significant expensive upgrades.
tter2 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm so damn furious about this DUMB move by Ten!! I love being able to watch shows like Aus Idol in HD, because on my 52' HD LCD the SD version looks like utter shite, and the difference b/w SD and HD is like night and day! I'm so angry about this!!!!! :angry2: :angry2: :angry2:
clarke Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm so damn furious about this DUMB move by Ten!! I love being able to watch shows like Aus Idol in HD, because on my 52' HD LCD the SD version looks like utter shite, and the difference b/w SD and HD is like night and day! I'm so angry about this!!!!! :angry2: :angry2: :angry2: By the time we get Ten HD here in Tassie having sport or no sport will make no difference here, if at all with multi-channeling starting next year. It seem we're the backwater of Australia!
clarke Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Edit of duplicate Edited October 30, 2008 by clarke
tonymy01 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 TenHD black levels are still pretty crap on fast tracked stuff. NCIS was crap. House was bad. Audio was ok for both though. Here, I took a quick shot with my mobile (sorry about the quality, downsized image a lot too as this is all that is needed to demonstrate the issue). The TV to the eye doesn't look like that either, it has much better uniformity, I guess this was just a quirk of the response of my phone CCD at the slight angle I took it and the TV being an LCD (and weird that I took a couple of shots, and none of them show the Beyonwiz OSD in the bar, despite being there to the eye, very weird actually, I suppose as the Wiz is 1080i output, perhaps the OSD is only in every 2nd field... but the TV is 1080p... so that shouldn't matter!?!?). But I hit pause to show what real black level looks like (bottom left corner). The 2 seconds of NCIS credits looked the same (assuming both NCIS and House credits are meant to be white on black). The Aussie drama "Rush", after NCIS, had perfect black levels (and pretty nice 5.1 audio :-)) BSG, XFiles& Eureka all good black, Eureka audio TERRIBLE still. Back to the full topic: For those in regional areas that think you won't get this, I thought SC10 was making some big announcement also about getting full regional coverage for HD for next year? Could have sworn I read that somewhere. Regards
Colin 2905 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 For those in regional areas that think you won't get this, I thought SC10 was making some big announcement also about getting full regional coverage for HD for next year? We'll probably just get a new demo loop..... one with a sports theme.
DansDans Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 We'll probably just get a new demo loop..... one with a sports theme. No we already got a new loop at the start of the year - I doubt SC10 are that dedicated to their HD loop to update it twice in a year!
tonymy01 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 LOL. I have read in other threads maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago (or over at Whirlpool) that people have been ringing SC10 asking when they were going to start getting the TenHD dedicated shows such as BSG/Eureka etc, and they were told that it would happen next year.
pgdownload Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 they could do it this way:1 -> ONE HD (when TEN HD is active, transmit a pure black signal at 500Kbps, when active, bitrate boosted back to 11Mbps with programming) 10 -> TEN SD 11 -> ONE SD 12 -> TEN HD (when ONE HD is active, transmit a pure black signal at 500Kbps, when active, bitrate boosted back to 11Mbps with Programming) But how does that help? You might as well just have 1 HD channel if the other one is going to be off when the other is on?Regards Peter Gillespie
tonymy01 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I am guessing it is to maintain the branding. "ONEHD" is the sports channel branding as far as that Ten release goes... I suppose. I reckon they should just do what they are kind of doing now, share HD sport and HD TV shows on the HD channel, but ensure not to ditch the HD show completely (aka Dexter and now Californication&The Office) when MotoGP and F1 is on semi-live (not that these are HD sport anyway). The ONESD can be the 24x7 SD sports :-) Regards
moa999 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 have 4 permanently active streams as such:1 -> ONE HD (when TEN HD is active, transmit a pure black signal at 500Kbps, when active, bitrate boosted back to 11Mbps with programming) 10 -> TEN SD 11 -> ONE SD 12 -> TEN HD (when ONE HD is active, transmit a pure black signal at 500Kbps, when active, bitrate boosted back to 11Mbps with Programming) Far simpler way 1 - ONE SD 10 - TEN SD 11 - Guide (Maybe) - consitent with 44, 77, 99 numbering 12 - ONE/ TEN HD - alternating branding depending on which content they want to show in HD
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