proftournesol Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 I'm sure that you are correct Fanzie, my intention was not to turn this into a Mac v PC flame war, but rather to comment on the difficulties in routinely obtaining a quiet PC when clearly there is no reason why every PC should not be quiet to start with.
Fangzie Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 There is, but only in terms of cost and, I would imagine, flexibility.
proftournesol Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 then if you want a quiet PC out of the box, one option is to buy a Mac. It'll run Windows as well or better than any other PC. Of course you'll pay more that you will for a PC with lower specs (ie noisy fan) but I think similar to similarly spec'd PCs. If you don't like Macs, fine, buy a PC. There are lots of choices in this world.
lebowski Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 You've got a point there Grainy. Who would want to hot up a slug like this? It still doesn't need a fan. yep, a rubbish computer not to mention the clumsy OS ; )
Guest Muon Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 It's not hard to put together a PC that is very silent. What can be challenging is putting together a high performance PC that is silent, but It's still not all that hard if you pick the right components. I prefer to have my components last longer by keeping them nice and cool, I have had PC's and a few MACs brought to me with heat related issues in the past, including a MAC notebook that went through 4 main circuit boards due to failure because of heat (insufficient cooling). Don't get me wrong here, I have advised some folk to get a MAC when It's obvious they are not interested in learning anything. Each to there own, and all that:cool:
lebowski Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 Don't get me wrong here, I have advised some folk to get a MAC when It's obvious they are not interested in learning anything. Each to there own, and all that:cool: or when they just want a user friendly, reliable solution and would rather spend their time learning something interesting
kdoot Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 You've got a point there Grainy. Who would want to hot up a slug like this? It still doesn't need a fan. I have no interest in the flame war, but facts are facts: the Mac Pro has at least three fans. The CPU/RAM section has one at front and one at rear. The PCIe section has one at the front. I think the PSU has an internal fan too, and depending on which graphics card you have it might have another on-board as well. But... the machine is designed to keep the fans running as slowly as possible and stay as quiet as it can.
Fangzie Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 You also don't really need a particularly powerful PC for most home theatre needs, so its also not particularly hard. But the reality is you don't even really need to have it in the same room, so even making it quiet seems to be almost redundant.
Guest Muon Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 or when they just want a user friendly, reliable solution and would rather spend their time learning something interestingBloody hell!Just because you have no interest, doesn't mean others don't, and ALL hardware is open to failure, even MACs! *sigh* The whole MAC v PC thing is bullshit, if it does the job you want, who cares what it is. I'll leave this thread now, it is serving no purpose anymore.
Grainy Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 Yeah, can we rewind a bit. i would like to know more about PC/Mac setup's , not a "this is best" but more a "this is what I've done or tried", especially the funky setup the OP had.
Listener Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) Well...Late to the party again! I apologise for not contributing before. I have been moving my 80 year old Mother some 200 km into a house near to me. This is the first time I have been on the computer for over a week. Tonights missive will be brief as I am too knackered to think and must get some sleep before putting new locks on her doors and going south for a Jeff Beck concert. Mac vs PC. Mmmm. It's not really so tricky. Do you prefer tea or coffee? Beer or wine? Blond or brunet? Each has it's own pro's and con's and I cannot get too fired up about it. I have both, I much prefer the PC but keep some Mac's as well. I have compared all kinds of Mac's to PC's for music and it was always a close call. Probably, the Mac would be slightly better but I think the PC can do more so I go for them. This last test however the PC was better than the Mac, again, not by much. If you are in the process of choosing between them, whichever you choose can give you first class sound. Do speak to others with experience of both though. If you listen to a PC or Mac Fanboy [-girl] it will get emotional. Mac or PC? Both are good! On Friday or Saturday I will have more time. I will post the PC details and some comments on J.River/Pure Music/Amarra et al then. P.S. Please take everything I say on this matter to be my ill considered opinion only, and that YMWCV [your milage will certainly vary]. Did I say we are going to Jeff Beck tomorrow? Yeah!!! Completely forgot to mention that it was a great pleasure having Greenie512 and Warickle at my place for a few days. Although a bit embarrassing on bin day as the many bottles and cans took the long and noisy drop. Also my reference to' PC or Mac fanboys' above was not meant unkindly, nor was it directed at anyone here. Steven. Edited March 31, 2010 by Listener Thanks and Apologies.
davewantsmoore Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 When you guys are talking about quality of onboard sound.... are you talking about sound output through a digital (optical or coax) output to a offboard DAC? ... or are you talking analog outputs?
Aslan Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 Dave, I use the onboard DAC and analogue outs. No one's ever complained about the SQ of R1's and R3's and they're fed by a server.
davewantsmoore Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 I see. I was always under the impression that analog output from onboard sound on a computer were exceptionally poor quality.
kdoot Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 I see. I was always under the impression that analog output from onboard sound on a computer were exceptionally poor quality. The trend is towards crap rather than quality. I'm quite surprised to hear Aslan on this point. There's a good reason for the explosion of outboard DACs in the market today, and I'd expect those to be better sound-for-money than an internal sound card in the vast majority of comparisons.
tricka Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 Depends on the sensitivity of the speaker. You don't want to hook up 101 db horns to a computer. Period.
Aslan Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 The trend is towards crap rather than quality. I'm quite surprised to hear Aslan on this point. There's a good reason for the explosion of outboard DACs in the market today, and I'd expect those to be better sound-for-money than an internal sound card in the vast majority of comparisons. In the vast majority of cases I'd agree guys..............most mobo's have very crap sound, period. However if you hunt around and are prepared to spend some serious dollars there are mobo's out there that actually have the same DAC chips as some very high end DAC's for a fraction of the price. There are quite a few mobo's using Wolfson, Burr Brown and Analogue Devices chips.
kdoot Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 In the vast majority of cases I'd agree guys..............most mobo's have very crap sound, period. However if you hunt around and are prepared to spend some serious dollars there are mobo's out there that actually have the same DAC chips as some very high end DAC's for a fraction of the price. There are quite a few mobo's using Wolfson, Burr Brown and Analogue Devices chips. The same DAC chips, maybe. But what about the power supplies and analogue output stages?
waricle Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 There's a whole minefield out there in computer audio and as there is a site dedicated to Computer Audio then I reckon that would be the place for all of those issues regarding motherboards etc. Our interest lies in the efficient management of our music and it's reproduction quality. The sheer availability of components for the PC make it much more convenient. Adding Pure Music to the Itunes system as improved the sound at the cost of complexity. I am still trying to decide if the systems benefits in sound outweigh the extra hassle!! Being used to the convenience of the SB3 makes me wonder if I just shouldn't add a DAC and not worry about the rest?? Any thoughts???
proftournesol Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 the beauty of Amarra mini is that it doesn't add to the complexity at all. It can run hidden so it takes no real screen estate, and automatically switches itself on and off depending on lossy/lossless material. It automatically switches bit-rate too so it's a simple invisible improvement for me.
myminirocks Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 I think it is time for me to get in on this one. So I am very new at all of this but I have just this weekend managed to get all my new toys set up. And what a disapointment. I used my iPhone as my audition source (shoot me) with a NAD iPod dock. I eventually went with, after much auditioning, a Denon PMA1500 and a pair of Elac 207a's. In the shop, amazing, at my place, lifeless. Don't get me wrong, they sound amazing and go very load so to all my family they think they are great, but it is lacking the soundstage and imaging that I fell in love with. Yes my room is not great but, I think it might be the mac mini as they source that is killing it for me. So, now we are up to speed, will a spdif/USB dac solve my problems here? If so, what are people using with mac minis? (I did search trust me) OR, just a top quality 3.5mm to 2 x RCA might do the trick. Is the DAC in the mini known to be crap? Should I avoid it with an external DAC? Cheers
proftournesol Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 I use a Mac mini with a Weiss Minerva cia Firewire but also use an Apple TV on my second system connected to a DACMagic2 via Toslink and that sounds good. I'd try something simple like moving your speakers away from the walls first though. The DAC chip in the Apple TV is better than the one in the Mac mini but neither is as good as an external DAC although the Apple TV is surprisingly good. Have you tried at home with your iPhone?
myminirocks Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Hmmm, yeah the speaker position is not really negotiable. I only have about 3 mtrs of wall that is suitable, unfortunately I do not have the luxury o a listening room. I have experimented with speaker placement as much as I can (very little) but did find a bit of improvement with a touch of toe in. (sounds like a disease) I don't have an iPod dock at home otherwise that would have been my first test. I might see if I can borrow the NAD one that was used in the shop. Therfore ruling eveything but the room out. Good to have a recomendation for a DAC though, I was actually about to MSG you after I saw your signiture. Happy with the weiss?
proftournesol Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 you don't need an iPod dock, just a RCA/iPod connector cable, you can probably get that at any Harvey Norman type store. The Weiss is close to state of the art digital, still falls short of vinyl, but as long as you don't directly compare it, it's very listenable. That's another way of saying that it's the best DAC I've heard.
Listener Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Ah, I see the bass traps are still ah la naturaaal! Yes. The joys of being a bachelor! Steven.
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