Abc4

[DrP]

I'm sorry CK, but no such project exists. We all know that all '2D' codec development was halted and all efforts poured into '3D'. We also know that no call for submissions from the non-existent project body were called for early in 2010 and that no submissions to the non-existent project were made.

... well at least if you believe certain forum members anyway.

['ct']

Kind of thought so. I know it looks dodgy going to blank or snow by turning ABC3 off after 9pm but I hope ABC can reduce the use as much as possible to make that ABC4 look half decent. ALso, cmon Mark Scott, release the month when it will (not maybe) start. Keep the date a secret if you must but I'm anxious to see this channel.

Early July.

[Skid_MacMarx]

I must say, I don't understand the rationale behind the decision to make ABC4 a HD channel.

what a waste of bandwidth.. I mean it will be a News Channel for god sakes.. most of the feed will be SD and a lot of that is 4:3.

The majority of people want entertainment and sports in HD.. not the latest bloodshed in Palestine in crisper colour.

Call me ol' skool, but for a decent standard of quality.. I thought the configuration had to be 4x SD channels, or 1x SD channel and 1x HD channel.

If the news channel was SD, they could have had NITV piggyback the ABC mux... a better use of resources in my opinion.

Furthermore, as I have expressed previously, its a shame we don't have a national parliamentary service (something like C-Span in the states) that also piggybacks aunty's mux.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Skid_MacMarx

[GoForMoe]

I must say, I don't understand the rationale behind the decision to make ABC4 a HD channel.

what a waste of bandwidth.. I mean it will be a News Channel for god sakes.. most of the feed will be SD and a lot of that is 4:3.

The majority of people want entertainment and sports in HD.. not the latest bloodshed in Palestine in crisper colour.

Call me ol' skool, but for a decent standard of quality.. I thought the configuration had to be 4x SD channels, or 1x SD channel and 1x HD channel.

If the news channel was SD, they could have had NITV piggyback the ABC mux... a better use of resources in my opinion.

Furthermore, as I have expressed previously, its a shame we don't have a national parliamentary service (something like C-Span in the states) that also piggybacks aunty's mux.

I'm sure the ABC would prefer to be SD only as well, but while there's that requirement to do a HD channel, this was the best way of getting it on air.

I'd hope that the government will see sense and both fund ABC News 24 and remove the already crippled HD requirement (due to accepting upconverts as HD) from ABC and SBS. I'd like to see Nitv get national carriage and a dedicated ABC Parliament channel, but I'd have also expected that it would be more logical to make a start on that by getting the community multiplexes to carry Nitv and A-PAC, rather than deliberate limitations with QPSK, and then slowly expand the 6th multiplex to regional areas (eventually selling off commercial space on it).

Edited June 2, 2010 by GoForMoe

[alanh]

All,

NITV is being transmitted via satellite to where most Aboriginals live. Most sites use satellite receivers or retransitters. It is far more likely for NITV to be added to the community broadcasters Mux in capital cities. It was on the datacasting trial which ended in April in Sydney only.

The ABC needs to replace ABC1 with HD using MPEG4. The ABC's head of TV Kim Dalton indicated that ABCHD would returm in 4 years. (When the analog switchoff is complete.) I totally agree that HD will be for a small specialist audience.

All new flat screen TVs in the shops now are HD capable with most MPEG-4 decompression. So the ABC should change ABC HD and ABC24 to MPEG-4. Then both audiences can be catered for. Existing ABCHD viewers without MPEG-4 will still be able to watch the same program on ABC1 where the data rate is more compatible with the pictures.

AlanH

[DrP]

I see the cracked record is still playing. Unfortunately I fear it will continue to play well after 2013.

['ct']

All,

NITV is being transmitted via satellite to where most Aboriginals live. Most sites use satellite receivers or retransitters. It is far more likely for NITV to be added to the community broadcasters Mux in capital cities. It was on the datacasting trial which ended in April in Sydney only.

The ABC needs to replace ABC1 with HD using MPEG4. The ABC's head of TV Kim Dalton indicated that ABCHD would returm in 4 years. (When the analog switchoff is complete.) I totally agree that HD will be for a small specialist audience.

All new flat screen TVs in the shops now are HD capable with most MPEG-4 decompression. So the ABC should change ABC HD and ABC24 to MPEG-4. Then both audiences can be catered for. Existing ABCHD viewers without MPEG-4 will still be able to watch the same program on ABC1 where the data rate is more compatible with the pictures.

AlanH

As I have always kept saying, this country went digital too early. How can we expect people to convert to digital if the transmission standards were to keep changing whilst analogue is still on-air. As the current digital viewing population mostly only have mpeg2 terrestrial stb's, there is no way mpeg4 can be introduced just yet, not to mention a lot of rightly angry beavers if their mpeg2 boxes were to be made obeslete. And what a waste of spectrum it would be to duplicate what exists ow into what could end up being triplecast, ie, analogue, mpeg2, and mpeg4. We should have waited like New Zealand, who are transmitting terrestrial as mpeg4. One of the reasons why TV came so late to Australia was the then sensible decision to wait until the best transmission system evolved over time when TV was introduced into Europe and North America. Australia made the right decision to go with 625/50, so as to make Australia PAL ready when colour was introduced. It could be argued that PAL should have been introduced in 1956, but that's another story. Imagine if we had jumped early and had gone with 405 line etc? Mpeg4 terrestrial will come, or maybe be bypassed entirely if and when an even more bandwidth effiecient transmission system over time evolves. Whilst the vast viewing majority will be mpeg2 for the next few years, we are stuck with it. The Govt wants to sell the analogue spectrum as soon as possible, and wont want to hold that up to run mpeg4 triplecast when analogue gets shutdown.

[ChaosMaster]

...this country went digital too early.

If we had waited longer, it would be nigh on 2020 before we finally switch off analogue...

Edited June 2, 2010 by ChaosMaster

[GoForMoe]

All,

NITV is being transmitted via satellite to where most Aboriginals live.

Actually, most Indigenous people live in the cities, where access to a sat service isn't as common. NITV were very happy about being on the digital 44 trial for this very reason, the biggest single population of Indigenous Australians is in Sydney.

All new flat screen TVs in the shops now are HD capable with most MPEG-4 decompression.

As even the lack of being able to receive the 3D trial on very modern sets among the skewed base of equipment that DTV Forum users is, there is still minimal MPEG-4 out there. Doing News 24 in HD is already cutting off quite a base of viewers, doing it in MPEG-4 would cut off 99% of viewers. It is just not the time for a general audience channel to go MPEG-4 only.

However as I've said before, providing a HD channel in MPEG-4 using spare capacity, especially during the downtime of ABC3 would be a good approach, but I certainly don't see it as likely.

We should have waited like New Zealand, who are transmitting terrestrial as mpeg4.

And put up with analogue until 2007? MPEG-4 doesn't give enough benefit in my mind to justify a six year delay in going digital. Yes, there were plenty of mistakes made with the transition, but overall we have a good digital service, even if it doesn't have quite the number of channels it could, or can't deliver the quality it could.

But with quality, I point to DAB+. We waited and chose the new technology, but then made the exact same mistakes, instead of making it so that the bitrates we would have had to use to do MP2 shifted over to make high quality, we just divided by 3 and added channels. The exact same would happen with MPEG-4, we wouldn't get better quality from the same channels, we would just add more and more and be back to where we started quality wise.

There is no point worrying about terrestrial digital formats further, we are already at the point where the ABC could feasibly stream in HD, an iView HD would solve most of the problems (the amount of iView enabled platforms is growing very quickly). The broadband network would further solidify this.

[alanh]

Go For Moe,

I have checked this out with the census statistics. The biggest single population of Aboriginals is in Alice Springs where the studios are.

I checked with the manufacturers of their Australian models, last year about MPEG-4 to come up with this result. Even Aldi STBs will receive MPEG-4 You are making assumptions not based on fact. Since the decompression ICs made now do both MPEG-4 and MPEG-2 it is easier for the manufacturers to make a single world chassis. For example all the Sony UK TVs will tune VHF even though the UK has no VHF transmitters.

We were, in 2000, the only location in the world to compare side by side the DVB-T and the ATSC systems. (Now only North America uses ATSC). We were also the only ones to transmit HD TV even if a lot of it was upscaled. The Communications Laboratory funded by the Commonwealth Government was closed soon after the start of DTV. What we have not done is to mandate from around 2007 that all new TVs must be able to receive MPEG-4. So by 2014 all MPEG-2 could be switched off. We didn't even specify that all TVs had to be able to tune DTV like the USA did in 2005.

CT,

You forget the huge changes in the airline industry. Many people now see what happens overseas and want it here. Particularly multiple channels, large clear images....

AlanH

[DrP]

I have checked this out with the census statistics. The biggest single population of Aboriginals is in Alice Springs where the studios are.

While you were checking did you happen to notice where other significant populations were located?

What we have not done is to mandate from around 2007 that all new TVs must be able to receive MPEG-4. So by 2014 all MPEG-2 could be switched off. We didn't even specify that all TVs had to be able to tune DTV like the USA did in 2005.

Do you see the reality of the situation now? Its 2010 and there is still no requirement for a STB sold into Australia to actually comply with the existing Australian 'standard' and no move to require MPEG-4 AVC support exists.

(Now only North America uses ATSC).

Admittedly my geography may be lacking but last time I checked Korea was not in the North American land mass.

Edited June 2, 2010 by DrP

[Basil1503559642]

I can't see MPEG-2 being turned off in the next 10 Years,its how MPEG4 and(IF) T2 is implemented that will be interesting.

[newtaste]

I have checked this out with the census statistics. The biggest single population of Aboriginals is in Alice Springs where the studios are.

AlanH

ABS 2006:

Aboriginal population in Alice Springs area - 4,494

Aboriginal population in Sydney area - 41,804

(Sydney figure includes about 6,000 who live in Wollongong and Blue Mountains)

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/De...06?OpenDocument

[newtaste]

Now only North America uses ATSC

AlanH

Admittedly my geography may be lacking but last time I checked Korea was not in the North American land mass.

Nor is Guam and American Samoa.

[ckent]

I must say, I don't understand the rationale behind the decision to make ABC4 a HD channel.

But you do know about the HD quota? Surely it's obvious that the ABC is doing this because they have to, not because they want to.

Also keep in mind that the HD quota allows the ABC and SBS to show upscaled SD content.

It is, for these reasons, I ignore all the complaints about "Why is ABC deciding to make News24 in HD!!?" but equally I am ignoring all the comments like "ABC will produce the news in HD" -- no they won't (c't can correct me if I'm wrong).

The only HD news we're going to get for some time will be out of Nine News Sydney. If you're in another state, you can see a bit of it on the 11am news or 4:30 news, I think.

CK.

Edited June 3, 2010 by ckent

['ct']

But you do know about the HD quota? Surely it's obvious that the ABC is doing this because they have to, not because they want to.

Also keep in mind that the HD quota allows the ABC and SBS to show upscaled SD content.

It is, for these reasons, I ignore all the complaints about "Why is ABC deciding to make News24 in HD!!?" but equally I am ignoring all the comments like "ABC will produce the news in HD" -- no they won't (c't can correct me if I'm wrong).

The only HD news we're going to get for some time will be out of Nine News Sydney. If you're in another state, you can see a bit of it on the 11am news or 4:30 news, I think.

CK.

Now, that would be telling.

Not my place to answer for the ABC.

[alanh]

Newtaste,

Guam and American Samoa are US military bases.

AlanH

[alanh]

Newtaste,

I looked at these stats some time ago. It is true that is where the studios for NITV are along with Imparja. I must have been thinking of Capital cities vs Remote areas which is all of NT except Darwin, inland Qld, NSW, SA and all of WA as compared to total city populations. There is a much smaller number in Melbourne.

41,000 is hardly a viable audience for a TV station even if they are all watching. Everywhere in Australia it requires a satellite receiver.

AlanH

[Timmy Downawell]

41,000 is hardly a viable audience for a TV station even if they are all watching.

I think you miss the point, Alan. It doesn't matter that Aborigines are a minority, maybe that fact makes it even more important that their culture is recognised by a channel available - freely - by terrestrial FTA. This channel promotes knowledge, understanding, language that may well otherwise be lost for good.

Um, not to mention being Aboriginal is not a requirement to watch NITV.

If another mux were to be made available to ABC or SBS, I would fully support them being required to carry NITV nationally. And failing that it should have been carried on the community channels' muxes in the capital cities, at the very least.

[newtaste]

Newtaste,

I looked at these stats some time ago. It is true that is where the studios for NITV are along with Imparja. I must have been thinking of Capital cities vs Remote areas which is all of NT except Darwin, inland Qld, NSW, SA and all of WA as compared to total city populations. There is a much smaller number in Melbourne.

41,000 is hardly a viable audience for a TV station even if they are all watching. Everywhere in Australia it requires a satellite receiver.

AlanH

In Alice Springs, Bourke and Mount Isa all you require to watch NITV is an analogue television with an aerial. Alan, I still can't grasp why you don't want the fully government funded (till they take ads) NITV on digital free-to-air, like the ABC and SBS are.

Anyway, i am looking forward to ABC4. It should be good. Hope they plan to show 'Newsline with Jim Middleton' that runs on Australia Network.

[DrP]

Newtaste,

Guam and American Samoa are US military bases.

AlanH

(Now only North America uses ATSC).

Last time I checked Guam wasn't sitting on the same tectonic plate as North America.... Can anyone check their atlas and advise.. has Guam been moved to the same plate as North America?

Edited June 3, 2010 by DrP

[ckent]

I think you miss the point, Alan. It doesn't matter that Aborigines are a minority, maybe that fact makes it even more important that their culture is recognised by a channel available - freely - by terrestrial FTA. This channel promotes knowledge, understanding, language that may well otherwise be lost for good.

Plus, frankly, it's a more interesting channel than TVS ... just my opinion.

CK.

[alanh]

DrP & Newtaste

Guam was ceded to the US by Spain in 1898. Captured by the Japanese in 1941, it was retaken by the US three years later. The military installation on the island is one of the most strategically important US bases in the Pacific. Population 181,000

American Samoa

Settled as early as 1000 B.C., Samoa was "discovered" by European explorers in the 18th century. International rivalries in the latter half of the 19th century were settled by an 1899 treaty in which Germany and the US divided the Samoan archipelago. The US formally occupied its portion - a smaller group of eastern islands with the excellent harbor of Pago Pago - the following year. Population 66,000

Compared to the USA 310,000,000 and Canada 34,000,000

www.cia.gov

I said North America to include Canada and Mexico

Picky.. picky.

AlanH

[newtaste]

DrP & Newtaste

Guam

American Samoa

I said North America to include Canada and Mexico

Picky.. picky.

AlanH

Alan, You forgot to write about the Northern Mariana Islands, also in in the Pacific, also nowhere near North America, also using ATSC, and also legally part of the USA.

Would be good if overnight ABC4 could broadcast some English language news programs from the Asia Pacific region - something SBS has failed to do.

Edited June 4, 2010 by newtaste

[DrP]

I said North America to include Canada and Mexico

The Koreans must be so relieved to hear that their country has finally become part of the United States of America. Who would that thought that the premise behind the Korean war was in fact to covertly dig up the entire country and transport it to the other side of the world so that it would become part of 'North America'.

South Korea: 50,062,000 people... but its OK to ignore them all since this is an alanh post where the facts should not be allowed to get in the way.

Face it alanh, this is yet another of your silly claims and it too has been proven to be false. Save face, admit the error and move on. Digging an ever-deepening hole is not the answer.

Edited June 4, 2010 by DrP