Nbn And All That Jazz

[DrP]

Telstra was valued at 60 billion. Last time it was suggested that its copper network be sold off to a separate body Telstra valued it at 30 billion - of course everyone else said this was a very inflated figure.

Edited August 15, 2010 by DrP

[hornblower]

Sorry for being so slow in responding. For the reason, see the Doc for an explanation:

After my last post in this thread last night, the link was unusable. Not just DTV, but for a test I tried to access the Bigpong home page - it didn't load, timed out.

I say again, nay, I'll shout: WE MUST HAVE THE NBN

I have the same problem with DTV but I open another tab(s) to access other sites. Quite often my home network is accessing several sites (4 computers) or shifting data over the LAN without significant slowdown. This indicates to me that the connection is not limiting data transfer but that the transfer rate is not determined by the bigppond server.

hornblower

[DrP]

I have the same problem with DTV but I open another tab(s) to access other sites. Quite often my home network is accessing several sites (4 computers) or shifting data over the LAN without significant slowdown. This indicates to me that the connection is not limiting data transfer but that the transfer rate is not determined by the bigppond server.

hornblower

... and of course, the reason for anyone having slow connection problems must be the same as your experience.

Now back to reality. Perhaps the endless threads about poor internet connection performance on just about every technology forum on which Australians post has slipped your attention? There are many many many well documented cases where Telstra infrastructure has and continues to impose severe rate limits. In fact a large swath of Canberra suffers from just this issue. Yes, that's right. Canberra, our nation's capital.

Edited August 15, 2010 by DrP

[hornblower]

... and of course, the reason for anyone having slow connection problems must be the same as your experience.

Now back to reality. Perhaps the endless threads about poor internet connection performance on just about every technology forum on which Australians post has slipped your attention?

The reality is that not everybody has a slow connection. There are, of course, many subscribers who do not have good access but is that a good enough reason to connect everybody ( including me) to NBN as I am already on HFC.

hornblower

[DrP]

The reality is that a whole heap of people do.

If you want to stay on cable, feel free to refuse the free installation of the NBN connection as a way of protest. Of course, when Telstra shuts down its data services over cable:

• because it's cheaper to use NBN
  
• due to regulatory requirements
  

you may find yourself questioning your own actions but that's ok because at least we won't have to read your drivel anymore.

Edited August 15, 2010 by DrP

[digitalj]

The reality is that not everybody has a slow connection. There are, of course, many subscribers who do not have good access but is that a good enough reason to connect everybody ( including me) to NBN as I am already on HFC.

hornblower

people don't stay in the same house forever, so it's better to provide the infrastructure even if it's lying there dormant for 50 years as eventually someone will want to take advantage of it.

[Cody]

Isn't Telstras whole net worth only something like 15 or $16 billion ?

They also purchased telstra's customers and agreement to eliminate the competition (the broadband component of telstra's HFC network, which passes 2.5 million homes already and delivers between 30 and 100mbps right now)

Eliminating competition and establishing a new monopoly doesn't come cheap.

The reality is that not everybody has a slow connection. There are, of course, many subscribers who do not have good access but is that a good enough reason to connect everybody ( including me) to NBN as I am already on HFC.

hornblower

Crazy isn't it, and there 2.5 million other homes in the same situation. Yet we are going to spend money we don't have removing it and replacing it with something that will deliver the same service.

[DrP]

• Has Telstra shown interest in selling its HFC network to NBN Co (at a reasonable price)?
  
• Will Telstra allow 3rd party ISP access to its HFC network (at a reasonable price)?
  
• Will Telstra supply internet services to those on the HFC (at a reasonable price) when they are stranded on the HFC network because there is no NBN connection available?
  

Oh, and a question to those who prefer to be stranded on Telstra's HFC network: What happens to your '100Mbit/sec' download speed when 100 other people on your segment decide they want to download stuff too?

Edited August 15, 2010 by DrP

[digitalj]

between 30 and 100mbps right now)

shared.

it's not 30-100Mbps per customer.

If there are 10 customers heavily downloading at the same time, then it becomes 3-10Mbps each.

[gone_bush]

shared.

it's not 30-100Mbps per customer.

If there are 10 customers heavily downloading at the same time, then it becomes 3-10Mbps each.

Exactly!

Whilst there will be similar problems with fibre, they will be several orders of magnitude less. And when you couple that with the fact that we will reach the bandwidth limit on copper a lot sooner that fibre, the is only one conclusion: We need the NBN.

[Cody]

lol

what do you think would happen if everyone picked up their phone and tried to make a call at the same time, or tried to go for a drive at the same time, or withdraw their money from their bank at the same time, flush their toilet at the same time etc etc etc? yet all those things work fine in everyday life and people dont fret about "what if", as you are.

yes HFC is a shared service but to suggest its as simple as dividing the quoted maximum speed by the number of people accessing it is an absurd oversimplification.

the network (in Melbourne for example) has overheads built to the tune of around 280Mbps and can prioritise types of traffic to optimise the throughput of certain types of traffic (ie things you will notice, like web browsing). real world speads NOW can often be upto 120 Mbps (in Melbourne) and 35Mbps elsewhere.

the reality is this is all no different to anything else and what will be the case with NBN.

Edit: views expressed are mine alone and not that of Telstra.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Dissociative

[DrP]

I'm sure there are plenty of people here that recall Telstra's HFC network has had speed issues due to congestion in days past.

Still, if people prefer to be stranded on Telstra's network, I say let them be. Just don't try to hold back the rest of the country.

What will be interesting to see, if NBN is allowed to complete, is will those here protesting about being 'forced' to use NBN have elected to not have the service provisioned at their premises for free.

So what about it, will those 'protestors' stand up now and declare that they will refuse an NBN termination if its offered to them?

Edited August 15, 2010 by DrP

[Cody]

Everything has speed issues from time to time. Do you think the NBN is going to be perfect?

And people don't get the choice to stay on HFC or any other network. The government is forcibly removing that choice.

And yet some say it will enhance competition

Edited August 15, 2010 by Dissociative

[DrP]

So what about it, will those 'protestors' stand up now and declare that they will refuse an NBN termination if its offered to them?

[Cody]

DrP, its not about not wanting a FTTH connection (who wouldnt?), its about being against spending public money we dont have on something that gives people a service they already have access to.

not to mention re-monopolising an entire industry.

[Aloysius]

ALP NBN, as opposed to any other version, is overpriced, over hyped, and over the top.

The country can't afford the extravagance it is.

Hello!! Nobody else is spending anything like this money per head of population - it's an IT bankrobbery.

[swordfish805]

lol

what do you think would happen if everyone ........ or tried to go for a drive at the same time

No need to imagine that one - in Sydney just try and drive down the Princes Highway, the M5 or Victoria Road any weekday morning or evening.

[Skid_MacMarx]

NBN crucial to health of economy: expert

Australia's economy would suffer if work to improve internet speed and availability isn't immediately started, according to a Curtin University internet expert.

Internet studies Professor Matthew Allen said Labor's national broadband network may take longer to roll-out and cost more than the Coalition's plan but it would be of greater benefit in the long run.

The government yesterday announced its $43 billion national broadband network would be upgraded to provide speeds of up to one gigabyte per second, making it 10 times faster than was originally touted.

Professor Allen said the two policies focused on different aspects - while Labor targeted speed, the Coalition aimed for a wider network.

"The ALP policy aims to look well into the future to provide us with a really robust high speed network for all sorts of purposes, some of which haven't been created yet," Professor Allen said.

"Therefore it's going to cost a lot more and it will take a lot longer but the pay off will be better."

The first stage of the network is set to be rolled out in Victoria Park in the coming weeks.

The Coalition's plan aims to get 97 per cent of households hooked up to faster broadband using a patchwork of technologies such as fibre optic and fixed wireless, at speeds of 12 megabytes per second.

It would spend $1 billion on grants for new fixed wireless networks in rural and remote Australia and another billion in metropolitan areas.

"They have aimed at a short-term attempt to manage some of the difficulties with the fact that some people can get broadband and some can't," Professor Allen said.

He said the Coalition's reliance on encouraging the private sector to build the networks was likely to fail.

"Over the last 15 years private investment has always failed to deliver the ubiquity and quality that we can and should aspire to," he said.

Australia is currently ranked 30th on the international comparison table of average internet speeds, sitting at 2.2 mega bits, Professor Allen said.

"That speed is only just sufficient to use the internet in the way that we now do," he said.

"The challenge is if you are to have a society that's really able to engage with the possibilities of networked communications it has to be wide-scale, reliable and upgradeable."

He said if the government didn't work now to build better infrastructure, Australia's capacity to invest and market technical products overseas would fall behind.

"This isn't about 'we just want more movies and songs faster'," he said.

"The jump in speed we are after would enable you to do the video conferencing, download a movie and back up a computer to a removed location at the same time."

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technolog...0812-121a7.html

Edited August 15, 2010 by Skid_MacMarx

[swordfish805]

ALP NBN,

Aloy's Law of Posting Never But Never give the answer

as opposed to any other version, is overpriced, over hyped, and over the top.

yes but it will be overhead outside your place after the election!

The country can't afford the extravagance it is.

Yoda speak, from the man who cannot use English.

[DrP]

A monopoly eh? Yes, yes, that's how to describe those left stranded on Telstra's HFC network if NBN is denied to them.

[Skid_MacMarx]

ALP NBN, as opposed to any other version, is overpriced, over hyped, and over the top.

Typical Abbott choirboy fanboi fud and hysteria

[hornblower]

A monopoly eh? Yes, yes, that's how to describe those left stranded on Telstra's HFC network if NBN is denied to them.

NBN will cover 93percent of population. The remaining 7 percent will have to do with other means.

Looking at the more practical aspects within my neighbourhood it has Telstra and Optus cable strung along most streets. Only about 10 percent is connected to the households. It seems that the majority of occupiers are either not connected or using ADSL or wireless. Do you honestly believe they will jump at the NBN.

hornblower

[DrP]

NBN will cover 93percent of population. The remaining 7 percent will have to do with other means.

Looking at the more practical aspects within my neighbourhood it has Telstra and Optus cable strung along most streets. Only about 10 percent is connected to the households. It seems that the majority of occupiers are either not connected or using ADSL or wireless. Do you honestly believe they will jump at the NBN.

hornblower

Those few other percent are also covered by NBN just using different access methods - ie, terrestrial wireless and satellite. Perhaps you can start by getting your facts right first.

[myrantz]

Do you honestly believe they will jump at the NBN.

It's like Analogue TV and HDTV... Technology has to move on.. Here in Australia the HDTV FTA is half backed... And we will have another half baked Internetwork if Abbott runs the government...

Not sure about you, but the once hyped FTA HD signals is now a joke... Saving money is a good idea, but saving money in the short term and then be crippled in the long term? They knew going in MPEG2 is going to be outdated, but saving money trumps logic.

Infrastructure is not about the short term.

More residential homes may not jump into the high speed bandwagon (like with DTV where only early adopters pick up a HDTV)..... But in time, it will pickup. Businesses that requires huge bandwidth (hopefully guaranteed?) will be the early adopters...

[Aloysius]

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2983739.htm

"On a per capita basis, the total cost of the NBN is between six and eighty times more expensive than what Singapore, South Korea and New Zealand are spending on their own lauded NBN solutions.

And Australia has similar or higher levels of urbanisation. As the award-winning technology journalist Grahame Lynch recently concluded, the NBN "is the most expensive government intervention of its kind in the world".

Those folks just don't understand how important a new Telstra would be to us "lucky country" folks :lol: :lol: