betty boop Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 cooksta said: With regards to the op's bright room characteristics would the new GX Monitor Audio speakers be better suited with the new ribbon tweeter as opposed to the superceded aluminium unit of the GS version? hi cooksta, not sure re the new GX monitor audio as not heard them, but have heard the platinum range with the ribbon and sure a tad smoother but still a big slab of the MA sound. am a big fan of that kind of sound. having owned focal, B&W, paradigm and my missions prior probably closest to the ma sound. look its pretty hard for me to say. lot of people hate that kind of sound. so really for the op to decide. and probably wouldnt decide unless if heard the speakers in question in his own room
kaanage Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 :) said: . a lot can be done with soft furnishings, couches, bookshelves rugs, wall coverings, window curtains etc. without taking away from the room or making it look like a recording studio. a lot of retailers you'll find quite used to dealing with surroundings such as these as pretty commonplace these days with high rise apartment living. 15m x 10m open plan, hard flooring with lots of glass makes for a very difficult room treatment task. To soften it (acoustically) would need a LOT of furnishings which would clutter the space and alter the feel. I would listen to some speakers in the $2-3k range at the same time as the expensive ones to see if there is much benefit in that room - they will certainly sound different but I wouldn't care to bet which would sound better due to the room response.
Cooksta59 Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 :) said: hi cooksta, not sure re the new GX monitor audio as not heard them, but have heard the platinum range with the ribbon and sure a tad smoother but still a big slab of the MA sound. am a big fan of that kind of sound. having owned focal, B&W, paradigm and my missions prior probably closest to the ma sound. look its pretty hard for me to say. lot of people hate that kind of sound. so really for the op to decide. and probably wouldnt decide unless if heard the speakers in question in his own room Mistakenly thought the ribbon tweeter was a soft dome but had a quick read of the specs and seems they are metal as in previous models. Wondered wether the ribbon would be smoother. Re the Paradigm Studio 100's, when I got them home they really hard an edge out of the box. Took months for them to break in in my experience and that was combined with the addition of wife friendly room treaments as we had lots of glass and slate flooring and slap echo down the passage. Definately not suited to a bright room. Which begs the question what speaker could you put in an overly bright room? with lots of hard surfaces, glass (we installed heavy curtains), hard flooring (heavy rug in room plus another down the passage) as well as moving out the leather sofa and placing a fabric sofa in its place my room has had the edge taken off the sound.
SDL Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 kaanage said: 15m x 10m open plan, hard flooring with lots of glass makes for a very difficult room treatment task. To soften it (acoustically) would need a LOT of furnishings which would clutter the space and alter the feel. I would listen to some speakers in the $2-3k range at the same time as the expensive ones to see if there is much benefit in that room - they will certainly sound different but I wouldn't care to bet which would sound better due to the room response. I think as well as being a big area with lots of hard surface, the treatment is very different for a music room to a HT room. Really I would consider whether it is a music room where occassionally you will play with 5.1 or a HT room that can play some music. Probably worth discussing with some specialists you feel comfortable with and they can suggest some setups that may work with your room.
Brad Cl Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Dipole speakers are considered to work better in a bright room, as they make use of the reflections. Not floorstanders, and not even australian, but gedlee speakers are also designed to make use of room reflections. Have a read at www.gedlee.com
kaanage Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Brad Cl said: Dipole speakers are considered to work better in a bright room, as they make use of the reflections. Up to a degree - if the room is too bright then then reflections start blurring the sound as they will be of similar magnitude to the direct path waves. The big questions are How open is the area?How much cannot be filled with non reflecting surfaces (like a kitchen area - impossible)?How much flooring is exposed?Can large portions of the walls and glass be covered over? Brad Cl said: Not floorstanders, and not even australian, but gedlee speakers are also designed to make use of room reflections. Have a read at www.gedlee.com So are Bose.
mttel Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 lavs said: snip - I quite like the nad avr's. I prefer to go the way of a single avr rather than pre-pro-power amp. I was looking at the nad 785hd. However there are none available in any Adelaide stores. Have been told nad will soon release the update to this, 787, but I can't find any reference to this on the net, so I presume it's a while away yet.......have been suggested arcam avr 500 but this seems expensive, & I don't like the look of the anthem Mrx 700 (fugly) & the fact that it's paradigms 1st attempt at an avr...... Any other suggestions would be appreciated for amps, although maybe I should request this in a different thread......I liked the denon 4311 for all it's bells & whistles but have been told it won't give as good sound as the arcam or the nad.... Thanks again for all your suggestions. It gives me something to work on...... You may have already been to these but here goes anyway, Up until a couple of weeks ago Dennis White had a NAD 785 in their demo room and one on display. Also worth a drive out Prospect Road to Challenge Hifi, they have large assortment of speakers, Polk, Paradigm, Tannoy, Yamaha and Martin Logan electrostatics are the ones that I can remember. Do a search in the trading post for some of their clearance items.
dantan Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 lavs said: I'm looking at purchasing 2 x floorstanding speakers & a centre speaker. I plan to also purchase an AVR (possibly NAD T785HD or Anthem MRX700).My budget is about $5-8K for the floorstanders, about $1-2K on the centre speaker, & about $3K on the AVR. Are there any other brands of floorstanding speakers you would recommend in the 5-8K range? I listen to a lot of music but also plan to eventually have surround sound with my home theatre setup. Hi mate, I would suggest to audition the new Gold Series (assuming they're already available in Australia) Monitor Audio floorstanding loudspeakers. Dan.
Drizt Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Gedlee's speakers are constant directivity speakers, so they try to minimise the dispersion (well, keep the dispersion constant over the frequency range) in an attempt to minimise the room reflections. Well that is what I thought, but I have been known to be wrong quite often and I'm happy to be corrected. Directivity Plot for the Abbey 12A Quote Dr. Geddes has added a comprehensive paper on directivity. The need for this paper was highlighted by the number of questions that are received about directivity - What is it? What is good or bad directivity?There is also a paper on "What is a Waveguide". Brad Cl said: Dipole speakers are considered to work better in a bright room, as they make use of the reflections.Not floorstanders, and not even australian, but gedlee speakers are also designed to make use of room reflections. Have a read at www.gedlee.com Edited June 7, 2011 by Drizt
betty boop Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 cooksta said: Mistakenly thought the ribbon tweeter was a soft dome but had a quick read of the specs and seems they are metal as in previous models. Wondered wether the ribbon would be smoother. Re the Paradigm Studio 100's, when I got them home they really hard an edge out of the box. Took months for them to break in in my experience and that was combined with the addition of wife friendly room treaments as we had lots of glass and slate flooring and slap echo down the passage. Definately not suited to a bright room. Which begs the question what speaker could you put in an overly bright room? with lots of hard surfaces, glass (we installed heavy curtains), hard flooring (heavy rug in room plus another down the passage) as well as moving out the leather sofa and placing a fabric sofa in its place my room has had the edge taken off the sound. hi cooksta, three speakers have come across, whatmough, sonus faber and pmc I'd say more predisposed to more bright sounding rooms or mating with gear on the brighter side. but yeah room wise, I wouldnt write off of loose all hope. lot can be done with a room for better acoustics, so something well worth looking at ps re dipoles, speakers like the martin logan's worth considering as well. they have a nice delicate top end too so maybe something possibly work well in the surroundings !
MrBurns84 Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 :) said: theyre a lovely speaker for sure, but MA like B&W and focal tends to have a more spritely/lively sound perhaps not dull enough for OPs what sounds like a room on the bright side. but yeah they are still all very lovely speakers Agreed. I've heard quite a few speakers that sounded just right at the store and only to sound different in your preferred listening room. However, i think local designed and manufactured speakers will give you better value for your dollar. Think VAF, Whatmough, Sonique, SGR, Legend etc.. SGR will take that extra step to install and customise the speaker to fit in your listening room, or so i've read on the SNA forums.
Mining Man Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 dantan said: Hi mate,I would suggest to audition the new Gold Series (assuming they're already available in Australia) Monitor Audio floorstanding loudspeakers. Dan. If he found Paradigm Studios too bright in a sound lounge, MA haven't got a hope in hell in a bright room!!
Adelaideltpc Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 lavs said: ...More importantly, would I find better sounding floorstanders than the Vaf sig I66's for $8K or less? ... Yes, try the Dynaudio Contour S3.4! I auditioned the Vaf I66's & I93's (in Vaf demo room) and Dyn S3.4's (at Denis White) when I was looking for a pair of front speakers for less than 15K. I bought the Dyn S3.4's as the sound they produce are much more accurate, more details, well balanced and very natural comparing to the Vaf. I used to own a pair of Vaf DC's but IMO they are way over-hyped!
Mitcon1503562253 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Just my 2c worth but I think B&W's like a fair bit of power and in such a large bright room the CA 540r just wouldn't be cutting the mustard, speakers will always tend to be a bit bright/harsh when pushed with a amp thats running out of steam. Seeing as your in Adelaide I'd also suggest maybe a listen/look at some Adelaide speakers and a chat to Edward, can't hurt to have a look 'n listen. I'd also suggest to maybe revisit the idea of pre/pro and a decent amp, something that wont run out of steam easy. And going with seps doesn;t have to cost a arm 'n a leg. I've got a quite powerful system based on Adelaide speakers and Emotiva pre/pro and amps, it's a bit lower cost than what your looking at but your more than welcome to come have a look/listen. Even though I have large ribbon tweeters my system is on the warm side of neutral sounding and might give you some ideas.
50mxe20 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Mining Man said: If he found Paradigm Studios too bright in a sound lounge, MA haven't got a hope in hell in a bright room!! That's for sure.
Gutty Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Mitcon said: the CA 540r just wouldn't be cutting the mustard, Thats not an amp i'd recommend for a bright room either. Probably better off with a NAD for a warmer sound. But given their recent issues maybe just stick with a Denon etc.
50mxe20 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 (_*_) said: Thats not an amp i'd recommend for a bright room either. Probably better off with a NAD for a warmer sound. But given their recent issues maybe just stick with a Denon etc. Try Denon with Focals would be my vote.
Adelaideltpc Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 (_*_) said: Thats not an amp i'd recommend for a bright room either. Probably better off with a NAD for a warmer sound. But given their recent issues maybe just stick with a Denon etc. Curious, what issues are you refering to?
Gutty Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) Adelaideltpc said: Curious, what issues are you refering to? Well maybe that was bad wording and/or outdated, but didn't they recently have some HDMI issues(poping etc) with their pre and some AVRs ?Or did that all get fixed up with firmware ? Edited June 10, 2011 by (_*_)
Mining Man Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 50MXE20 said: Try Denon with Focals would be my vote. All personal, but I find Focal on the brighter side of neutral than Paradigms. MA even more so again. (Focal closer to Paradigm than MA to Focal.) I'm not talking 10 year old Yamaha AVR bright, but "lively". They're going to demand some decent amplification, but Dynaudio would be the best I've heard to tame a bright room.
Adelaideltpc Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 lavs said: ...- I quite like the nad avr's. I prefer to go the way of a single avr rather than pre-pro-power amp. I was looking at the nad 785hd. However there are none available in any Adelaide stores. .... .... Not sure which store you've been to in Adelaide, but when I went to DENIS WHITE (on Unley Rd) today to pick up my Cambridge Audio 751BD blu-ray player I did ask Denis about availlability of the NAD 785HD - Apparently he still has a brand new unit in the box - last one! When i was there he had the Dynaudio Contour S3.4 hooked up to a Audio Control (American brand) avr (rrp ~10K) which he is clearing out for a rediculous price. The sound was awesome, i suggest you to check out this avr also as the price is too good to be true. Denis is also clearing out the CA 650 blu-ray players for ~ $590 - cheap!
50mxe20 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Mining Man said: All personal, but I find Focal on the brighter side of neutral than Paradigms. MA even more so again. (Focal closer to Paradigm than MA to Focal.) I'd have said warmer not brighter.
Sounding Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Interesting discussion... I've been doing a lot of reading lately. Specifically, about B&W speakers. Seems not all B&W speakers are equal. In summary I am surprised the CM9 and CM or CM2 centre combination hasn't been suggested. You say you've tried the 684's from B&W, they are a 2.5 way speaker, did you have a sub connected to fill in the bass? The 683 is a cut above the 684, but still, lots of reading find more than one "expert" opinion suggesting they get a bit bright when pushed hard, but that doesn't prevent the 683's from being rated fairly well in the reviews overall. The CM 8 and 9 however, do not seem to suffer this brightness when pushed loud, at least so much that it doesn't rate a mention in the readings that I have done lately. I know that for just about all speakers, you will be able to find a favourable review, but HERE is one review on the CM9's that is worth a read if you were a little bit interested. Of note, I am looking at the CM8's to replace the 602's. I don't have a massive room and lots of glass, though. Good luck getting through that issue.
betty boop Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 not all b&w speakers are created equal no. the tweeter and driver tech really does ramp up as you go up the range. where lower range can sound a bit rough around the edges as go up they do get more smoother sounding and more coherent. you definitely get what you pay for
Mining Man Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 :) said: not all b&w speakers are created equal no. the tweeter and driver tech really does ramp up as you go up the range. where lower range can sound a bit rough around the edges as go up they do get more smoother sounding and more coherent. you definitely get what you pay for Massive difference between the previous 600 & 700 range, especially once you got the FST mid range driver (703 only). I found the 603 & 604 pretty awful on demo, to be honest. Would love to give the CM9 a listen, and they're one of the few ranges that include a 3 way centre with vertically aligned mid and tweeter. If the 800 series Focals had a 3 way centre, they'd be almost the perfect bang for buck speaker. IMO, of course.
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