bernievink Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 4 hours ago, cwt said: Hi Bernie ; were they running with the 8500 direct to the display and using the hdmi audio out ? The less hdmi edid comms the better when audio isn't synching What happens when you try the alternative ? Hi cwt in store the unit was straight out of the box with older firmware and audio to both HDMI outputs, but at home I have a receiver so I direct audio to HDMI port 2 and picture to HDMI port 1 Will try setting the unit at home to both ports to see if it makes a difference. PS. both problem titles are Warner Bros 2017 releases, all other Universal, Sony and Paramount movies do not cause these problems. In the Sully movie I can bring the problem on immediately by starting at chapter 3 out of 10.
cwt Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 8 hours ago, bernievink said: Hi cwt in store the unit was straight out of the box with older firmware and audio to both HDMI outputs, but at home I have a receiver so I direct audio to HDMI port 2 and picture to HDMI port 1 Will try setting the unit at home to both ports to see if it makes a difference. PS. both problem titles are Warner Bros 2017 releases, all other Universal, Sony and Paramount movies do not cause these problems. In the Sully movie I can bring the problem on immediately by starting at chapter 3 out of 10. Not sure if your referring to the hdmi out ports on the Sammy or the hdmi inputs on your avr Bernie . In any case the best config is Sammy hdmi 1 out direct to the display and 2nd hdmi audio out to the avr . . If your avr is hdmi2.0a and hdcp2.2 capable just the one cable to the avr is the easier alternative [ and gives access to the avrs osd ] I imagine it still loses audio if you downrez the uhd to 1080p if possible ? That would at least rule out any cable bandwidth problem. good luck it seems like it is something obscure in the authoring of the discs [ if it didn't play ok in the stores setup that is -which it did ]
bernievink Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, cwt said: good luck it seems like it is something obscure in the authoring of the discs [ if it didn't play ok in the stores setup that is -which it did ] the store player had not been updated to Software version 1009.1 but my player had, So it may be that the newer software does not like something on those two Warner Bros discs. That said I own one other Warner Bros 4K UHD disc but it (Lego Movie) was release in may 2016, and plays fine in my player. Edited February 14, 2017 by bernievink
bernievink Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, cwt said: In any case the best config is Sammy hdmi 1 out direct to the display and 2nd hdmi audio out to the avr That is exactly as I have it configured. I cannot use my AVR for pass through as it is not capable of 4K but can handle uncompressed audio.
digitalj Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Tried swapping the 2 HDMI cables over? I recently got the samsung 4k BD player and used 2 HDMI cables I already had, but the cable I was using for video was causing problems, I swapped the audio and video cables over and no longer have an issue with the picture.
bernievink Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, cwt said: In any case the best config is Sammy hdmi 1 out direct to the display and 2nd hdmi audio out to the avr Thank you everyone for your suggestions I have discovered a workaround that solves the problem. It is the exact opposite of what I would normally do. I copied the setup from the store. by using only the player and the TV nothing else, and the discs play perfectly. My next attempt will be to use the TV as pass through to the AVR, as the TV has an optical out and the AVR has an optical in. If I can send the PCM audio through the TV to the aVR and still be able to decode the 7.1 channels in the AVR all will be well. do not know if this is possible but will try it. Edited February 14, 2017 by bernievink typo
Quark Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Optical doesn't have the bandwidth for HD audio, only compressed Dolby digital etc.
bernievink Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Quark said: Optical doesn't have the bandwidth for HD audio, only compressed Dolby digital etc. The TV does not pass through the 7.1 channel sound, only 2 channel sound. But if a TV channel has 7.1 channel sound it does forward this to the AVR through the optical link. Edited February 14, 2017 by bernievink update
Quark Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 14 minutes ago, bernievink said: The TV does not pass through the 7.1 channel sound, only 2 channel sound. But if a TV channel has 7.1 channel sound it does forward this to the AVR through the optical link. Some might pass compressed 7.1 Dolby digital, but optical connections don't have the bandwidth for multichannel HD audio. I seem to recall that optical does have the bandwidth for 2 channel HD audio, but I'm not aware of any HDCP implementation on optical (there may well be, but likely to be on high end stuff).
Quark Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Bernie, with your stuttering issues I'm wondering whether the display or AVR are sending EDID data that's causing the issue. What colour space settings do you have in both (I know you're only sending audio to the AVR, but HDMI EDID data can problematic).
Quark Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Just now, Quark said: Bernie, with your stuttering issues I'm wondering whether the display or AVR are sending EDID data that's causing the issue. What colour space settings do you have in both (I know you're only sending audio to the AVR, but HDMI EDID data can problematic). Also: Do you have more than one display connected to the AVR? What other sources (Foxtel etc) do you have connected to the AVR? Do you still have a problem when they're disconnected from the AVR?
bernievink Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Quark said: Bernie, with your stuttering issues I'm wondering whether the display or AVR are sending EDID data that's causing the issue. What colour space settings do you have in both (I know you're only sending audio to the AVR, but HDMI EDID data can problematic). Hi Quark in order to gain stability on just these two Warner bros movie titles in 4K I set the player back to default values.this means no sound output on second HDMI port of player. Colour space has always been set to auto. All other twenty five movie titles I own in 4K including one other Warner bros movie (Lego Movie) do not cause any problems with sound or picture when sound is directed to HDMI port 2 of the player. 2 hours ago, Quark said: Also: Do you have more than one display connected to the AVR? What other sources (Foxtel etc) do you have connected to the AVR? Do you still have a problem when they're disconnected from the AVR? In answer to 1. only one display Samsung UA60KU6000W. In answer to 2. two media players. HDMI1 Samsung UBD-K8500/xy, HDMI2 Sony BDP-S5500 (region A version imported from USA). and of course the optical from the TV for 7.1 Ch sound on HDTV. The AVR is a Sony STR-DH520 capable of 3D pass through but not 4K.
muriwai Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 Hey Bernie,are you sure you don't have an Oppo?[emoji15]
Quark Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, bernievink said: Hi Quark in order to gain stability on just these two Warner bros movie titles in 4K I set the player back to default values.this means no sound output on second HDMI port of player. Colour space has always been set to auto. All other twenty five movie titles I own in 4K including one other Warner bros movie (Lego Movie) do not cause any problems with sound or picture when sound is directed to HDMI port 2 of the player. In answer to 1. only one display Samsung UA60KU6000W. In answer to 2. two media players. HDMI1 Samsung UBD-K8500/xy, HDMI2 Sony BDP-S5500 (region A version imported from USA). and of course the optical from the TV for 7.1 Ch sound on HDTV. The AVR is a Sony STR-DH520 capable of 3D pass through but not 4K. Before we go through the joy of playing with colour settings, I'd suggest starting with two things: Disconnect the optical cable; and Disconnect the Sony from the AVR, or turn it off at the wall (even when equipment is in standby the HDMI port can be powered and respond to EDID requests). As for why you're getting the issue with only two discs, I presume it's some variation of copy protection on the discs.
bernievink Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, muriwai said: Hey Bernie,are you sure you don't have an Oppo? Yes Dean I am sure I don't have an Oppo, neither player or amp. Edited February 15, 2017 by bernievink
bernievink Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) On 2/15/2017 at 4:05 PM, Quark said: Before we go through the joy of playing with colour settings, I'd suggest starting with two things: Disconnect the optical cable; and Disconnect the Sony from the AVR, or turn it off at the wall (even when equipment is in standby the HDMI port can be powered and respond to EDID requests). As for why you're getting the issue with only two discs, I presume it's some variation of copy protection on the discs. Hi Quark tried your suggestions about the Sony and the optical, also tried a new disc I received this week, The Bourne Identity is added to the list of movies that cause my set up problems. these discs play ok till I add my AVR, I guess it is not doing the correct thing as far as sound is concerned. I was really hoping to avoid spending the cash for another AVR but if the audio feed to the AVR also has copy protection in it then that my be the cause of all my problems. Edited February 16, 2017 by bernievink
bernievink Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 2:55 PM, bernievink said: I was really hoping to avoid spending the cash for another AVR but if the audio feed to the AVR also has copy protection in it then that my be the cause of all my problems. I am experimenting with the optical out on the Samsung UBD-K8500 to see if that allows these movies to play without freezing and audio dropouts. I have spotted an ad for a Sony STRDH770 for sale in Oakleigh, VICtoria for $699. that maybe my cheapest option for a 4K UHD AVR
Quark Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 On 16/02/2017 at 2:55 PM, bernievink said: Hi Quark tried your suggestions about the Sony and the optical, also tried a new disc I received this week, The Bourne Identity is added to the list of movies that cause my set up problems. these discs play ok till I add my AVR, I guess it is not doing the correct thing as far as sound is concerned. I was really hoping to avoid spending the cash for another AVR but if the audio feed to the AVR also has copy protection in it then that my be the cause of all my problems. Hi Bernie, If your TV has UHD HDMI Colour set to On, turn it off. This will still produce all the colour depth on current UHD discs. If no change (or its already Off) try turning off HDMI DEep Colour in your player. If those don't work let us know the current HDMI Colour Format settings in the player and the Colour Space settings in the TV.
bernievink Posted February 18, 2017 Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) I tried a new experiment last night. I used the optical out from the UBD-K8500 to a spare optical in on my Sony STR-DH520 AVR (CATV socket). this still allowed full 7.1 channel sound but only Dolby True HD. which is good enough for me. over the next few days I will try to watch Storks and Sully again to see if it solves my problem. Edited February 18, 2017 by bernievink
cwt Posted February 18, 2017 Posted February 18, 2017 3 hours ago, bernievink said: I tried a new experiment last night. I used the optical out from the UBD-K8500 to a spare optical in on my Sony STR-DH520 AVR (CATV socket). this still allowed full 7.1 channel sound but only Dolby True HD. which is good enough for me. over the next few days I will try to watch Storks and Sully again to see if it solves my problem. Somethings wrong here Bernie ; optical cant pass multichannel dolby truehd ; only lossy dolby digital ;dts and 2ch lpcm up to 48khz. . You may be applying a dsp mode if your getting 7.1. On 16/02/2017 at 2:55 PM, bernievink said: I was really hoping to avoid spending the cash for another AVR but if the audio feed to the AVR also has copy protection in it then that my be the cause of all my problems The hdmi audio out from the Sammy doesn't have any hdcp ; it just has a null blanked out video signal to go with the audio ; hdcp 2.2 was introduced with hdmi 2.0 so an earlier say hdcp 2.0/2.1 avr needs this dual output workaround for the edids of the source and sink to comply.. Ide try to get a trial avr before forking out
bernievink Posted February 18, 2017 Posted February 18, 2017 4 hours ago, cwt said: Somethings wrong here Bernie ; optical cant pass multichannel dolby truehd ; only lossy dolby digital ;dts and 2ch lpcm up to 48khz. . You may be applying a dsp mode if your getting 7.1. I have set the Samsung to output uncompressed bitstream and the Sony AVR displays Dolby True HD on the display for a few second before returning to AFD. the graphic shows the 7.1 icon on the front panel. I believe the Sony can handle 96khz as well as 48khz. I have not set any DSP modes just leave it in AFD all the time.
cwt Posted February 18, 2017 Posted February 18, 2017 5 hours ago, bernievink said: I have set the Samsung to output uncompressed bitstream and the Sony AVR displays Dolby True HD on the display for a few second before returning to AFD. the graphic shows the 7.1 icon on the front panel. I believe the Sony can handle 96khz as well as 48khz. I have not set any DSP modes just leave it in AFD all the time. The only connection that can pass multichannel dolby truehd digitally Bernie is hdmi . optical alone is restricted to a lossy bitstream , Quote I believe the Sony can handle 96khz as well as 48khz That's what its DACs can handle ; if your sending a regular lossless truehd track over hdmi its probably 24/48 . If your using optical it operates for movies at 16/48 and it must be a lossy codec for multichannel . Try setting the Sammy to decode and see if you get lpcm multi on the osd like these vvv readouts; that will also need hdmi... http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=73922
MLXXX Posted February 18, 2017 Posted February 18, 2017 10 hours ago, bernievink said: I have set the Samsung to output uncompressed bitstream and the Sony AVR displays Dolby True HD on the display for a few second before returning to AFD. Are you sure that the display says Dolby True HD rather than just Dolby? The way multichannel audio is sent through a Toslink optical cable is to downmix it to a legacy bitrate compressed surround sound stream such as you get from a PAL DVD. That can sound sweet and pleasant, but it is not high definition surround sound.
bernievink Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, MLXXX said: Are you sure that the display says Dolby True HD rather than just Dolby? The way multichannel audio is sent through a Toslink optical cable is to downmix it to a legacy bitrate compressed surround sound stream such as you get from a PAL DVD. That can sound sweet and pleasant, but it is not high definition surround sound. Hi Guys No I am not sure, but this is the only way my receiver displays the full 7.1 icon of sound. any other combination of cabling causes the movies Storks, Sully, Bourne supremacy & bourne legacy to freeze often in display, with many sound dropouts. So until I can obtain a 4K UHD AVR I am forced to use optical if I want all 7.1 channels on watching movies without hiccups. I will just have to put up with it for now
cwt Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 12 hours ago, cwt said: Try setting the Sammy to decode and see if you get lpcm multi on the osd like these vvv readouts; that will also need hdmi... Had a look at the sammys manual Bernie ; like all modern bd players it can decode the lossless tracks to lpcm - so you will know for sure what your getting ; lossy or lossless . In the settings under sound it says this ; ''Lets you select the digital audio output format that is suitable for your TV or AV Receiver. For more details, see the digital output selection table on page 54. " Set it to lpcm and the player will decode it rather than the avr and lpcm multi should come up on the osd rather than dolby truehd . But all this is only for diagnosing ; if your happy with what your getting that's all that matters. dolby digital at its full bitrate is better quality than the 448kbps we used to get with dvd There is a new Samsung player coming btw and it may have a version of digital copy that was promised when uhd was launched https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/28/samsung-m9500-ultra-hd-blu-ray/
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