Anthem AV Owners Thread

[K1LL3M]

That's been one of my test scenes since it came out on DVD. "Cacophony" is how he describes that scene and it's spot on. I listened to it tonight right after I read that (Sorry Simon I couldn't wait!) - well what can I say? Blown away. The Anthem D2V separates the nuances of that scene like a sushi chef carving up fresh tuna. The Dialogue coming from this scene is stupefying. It is so clear (And I thought the Integra was good). Mind you the Catalysts are doing the heavy lifting but they sure like a clean signal - the Integra / Audyssey frankly sounded muddy compared to this. Getting ahead of myself again - have to keep my comments for the review

As always Blade, your comments intrigue and inspire and create doubt of our own gear's greatness thereby generating desire for the product.

Looking forward to the full review, but i dont think I can afford to read it

You should be in marketing Blade St James.

Edited August 18, 2010 by K1LL3M

[Jliang70]

I actually don't like the idea of a processor upscaling analogue input or even touch analogue input. There is very few 24/192 dac that can touch the quality of a good old NOS chip like 1541a or a BB1704uk chip when it comes to RBCD playback.

Edited August 18, 2010 by jliang70

[MACCA350]

Have you noticed if there is an option to turn off the upsampling on digital inputs?

Btw Denon have been using Burr Brown DAC's and ADC's for a while, even my 3808 uses them, actually just realized that it samples analog inputs at 24/192 then into the dual 32bit DSP's.

The AVP uses the same PCM-1804 ADC's but uses PCM-1796(which is still the top Burr Brown) instead of PCM-1791(also in the 4310/4810). Difference being THD+N drops from 0.001% to 0.0005% and dynamic range from 113dB to 123dB.

Any idea which Burr Brown chips they use in the D2v?

Can't seem to find any reference to the model, but I'd assume they're using the PCM-1796 as well.

Cheers

[MACCA350]

I actually don't like the idea of a processor upscaling analogue input or even touch analogue input. There is very few 24/192 dac that can touch the quality of a good old NOS chip like 1451a or a BB1704uk chip when it comes to RBCD playback.

Pretty sure there would be an analog bypass in there somewhere......either that or bypass it yourself

Cheers

[Jliang70]

Pretty sure there would be an analog bypass in there somewhere......either that or bypass it yourself

Cheers

It does have analog bypass which I found out by reading the Soundstage! review in the last few minutes. It has pretty good dac inside according the Soundstage!. Something they think is comparable to Stello DA220 and benchmark DAC 1 which is quite good for a av processor.

http://www.soundstage.com/editrl/edit130.htm

[MACCA350]

It does have analog bypass which I found out by reading the Soundstage! review in the last few minutes. It has pretty good dac inside according the Soundstage!. Something they think is comparable to Stello DA220 and benchmark DAC 1 which is quite good for a av processor.

http://www.soundstage.com/editrl/edit130.htm

I actually just found it in the manual. You can select any analog source to be bypassed or not.

It's under the Source Setup of each input(ie DVD1):

g. Audio In:

Dig (choose any digital input to assign)

Anlg-DSP (ADC then through DSP)

Anlg-Dir (digital bypass, only level adjustments available)

Now that's the way to do it

Cheers

[cwt]

You'll be happy to know the Anthem D2V up-samples "Both" Analog and Digital sources to 24-Bit/192Khz (All inputs). As per the detailed specifications that you'll find in the Anthem Download section (I can't cut and paste from the .PDF as it's secured):

Thats fascinating that its capable of upsampling so many varied bit depths /sampling rates Blade . I wonder if the distinction is made between lossless codecs decoded by the player and those bitstreamed to the D2v2 Ive got little doubt the anthem has a vfd telling the edid of what is being sent ; how it describes say 24/192fs possibly for lpcm input from a bald dts hdma 48khz for internally decoded may be a indicator. If it works like that of course.

Macca ; someone at avs said AKM AK5495A ADC DACs ; made the distinction with the dual diff 1796's . Its the surrounding circuitry thats important in any case and anthem is very fastidious

[BladeRnR]

I actually just found it in the manual. You can select any analog source to be bypassed or not.

It's under the Source Setup of each input(ie DVD1):

g. Audio In:

Dig (choose any digital input to assign)

Anlg-DSP (ADC then through DSP)

Anlg-Dir (digital bypass, only level adjustments available)

Now that's the way to do it

Cheers

Spot on Macca you found it in the manual. Very cool yes? This is the kind of versatility I was talking about. If you're into 2-Channel and HT then this Processor has you covered. As jlian70 pointed out the DAC is comparable to some rather high-end DAC's (Stello DA220 and benchmark DAC 1 as per the Soundstage commentary). I think AKM AK5495A ADC were mentioned in one of the many reviews I read before acquiring the unit so I think cwt is right on that point. The DAC's I'm fairly sure are PCM-1796's. The DSP's are (I believe) in-house Anthem custom jobs.

And for some trivia ARC-1 only applies to:

Dig (choose any digital input to assign)

Anlg-DSP (ADC then through DSP)

To comment on jliang70:

"I actually don't like the idea of a processor upscaling analogue input or even touch analogue input. There is very few 24/192 dac that can touch the quality of a good old NOS chip like 1541a or a BB1704uk chip when it comes to RBCD playback"

Your 2-Channel knowledge / chip knowledge is clearly well beyond my own! All I do know is Anthem worked very hard on their upsampling algorithm (The white paper mentioned in the link above is fascinating although again a lot of it is beyond me) and claim it is not done "the normal way others do it". So given they have some 7 herbs and spices secret recipe all I can report on is the result. So far the Analog section (To my Neophyte ears) sounds like butter. Very keen to try the UD9004 / balanced output when the good Yorac has received payment. But yes, I've heard from many Audiophile's that they consider touching the Analog signal sacrilege and I totally respect that desire for absolute purity. Given my cauliflower ears I doubt I'd have the ability to pick the difference in 2-Channel (I prefer SACD and thought all vinyl records were being recycled to make linoleum flooring for goodness sakes! )

Regards

Blade

Edited August 19, 2010 by BladeRnR

[Jliang70]

Spot on Macca you found it in the manual. Very cool yes? This is the kind of versatility I was talking about. If you're into 2-Channel and HT then this Processor has you covered. As jlian70 pointed out the DAC is comparable to some rather high-end DAC's (Stello DA220 and benchmark DAC 1 as per the Soundstage commentary). I think AKM AK5495A ADC DAC's were mentioned in one of the many reviews I read before acquiring the unit so I think cwt is right on that point. The DSP's are (I believe) in-house Anthem custom jobs.

And for some trivia ARC-1 only applies to:

Dig (choose any digital input to assign)

Anlg-DSP (ADC then through DSP)

To comment on jliang70:

"I actually don't like the idea of a processor upscaling analogue input or even touch analogue input. There is very few 24/192 dac that can touch the quality of a good old NOS chip like 1541a or a BB1704uk chip when it comes to RBCD playback"

Your 2-Channel knowledge / chip knowledge is clearly well beyond my own! All I do know is Anthem worked very hard on their upsampling algorithm (The white paper mentioned in the link above is fascinating although again a lot of it is beyond me) and claim it is not done "the normal way others do it". So given they have some 7 herbs and spices secret recipe all I can report on is the result. So far the Analog section (To my Neophyte ears) sounds like butter. Very keen to try the UD9004 / balanced output when the good Yorac has received payment. But yes, I've heard from many Audiophile's that they consider touching the Analog signal sacrilege and I totally respect that desire for absolute purity. Given my cauliflower ears I doubt I'd have the ability to pick the difference in 2-Channel (I prefer SACD and thought all vinyl records were being recycled to make linoleum flooring for goodness sakes! )

Regards

Blade

No, still on the learning curve blade, this is a fantastic product and the only thing I am worried about is to come up with $$$$.

Edited August 19, 2010 by jliang70

[BladeRnR]

As always Blade, your comments intrigue and inspire and create doubt of our own gear's greatness thereby generating desire for the product.

Looking forward to the full review, but i dont think I can afford to read it

You should be in marketing Blade St James.

Nice of you to say Kill . I have been known to cause the escape of moths from wallets! Macca will get an invite soon as his opinion is valuable & honest but I'm a bit afraid he'll wobble out the front door babbling incoherently again with his complexion turning white (As was the case when he heard the Catalysts and we all know what happened after that!). I have a feeling Dantan will be equally impressed.

But yep the notepad is filling up with observations and exclamations already. I watched about 15 mins of Kick Ass on BD last night (Just the dialogue on the intro alone had me hooked and I turned to the missus and said... - how clear is THAT!?). The Catalysts continue to amaze at every turn as they get more hours on them.

Anthem D2V GB ( ) - What a lovely Xmas present this unit would make... .

The Soundstage review summary hits the nail on the head:

So if you were thinking of the Anthem Statement D2v as a home-theater-only product, think again; its performance and features make it just as relevant to audiophiles, and that's why I think it such an important product. It's also a bargain. While the D2v's $7499 price isn't chump change, even if you use only a few of its features, as I'm doing right now, it can still be considered moderately priced. Take advantage of everything it offers (I've only scratched the surface of its features here) and it's actually cheap. Try to replicate everything it does with separate components and you'll probably end up spending two or three times as much.

The high-performing, feature-rich Anthem Statement D2v is one of the great products of today, with features and versatility that, tomorrow, won't be expected but demanded. It's a glimpse of the future -- right now.

Regards

Blade

Edit - The UltraAudio Review has some excellent commentary on the ARC-1 Room Correction system and overall impressions after it was run:

Ultraaudio Review

Edited August 19, 2010 by BladeRnR

[dantan]

Wow! There's certainly been heaps of activity here the last 18 hours or so!

Thanks Justin for reassuring me that this is the unit I MUST have. I certainly know it, even though I have not even listened to one!

Please keep the comments flowing; I certainly am (and no doubt I am not the only one) reading them all and soaking them up.

Dan.

[MACCA350]

Macca ; someone at avs said AKM AK5495A ADC DACs ; made the distinction with the dual diff 1796's . Its the surrounding circuitry thats important in any case and anthem is very fastidious

That's Asahi Kasei Microsystems not Burr Brown. Not sure they were referring to the D2v or not(maybe the D2), but the D1 used AKM AK5495A for ADC and AKM AK4395 for DAC. Still can't find a reference from anthem on the model they use in the D2v.

No argument on the importance of supporting hardware, anything the signal passes through has the opportunity to degrade quality, the less degradation the better.

Really hard to fight the urge to upgrade given my 3808 is out of town

Cheers

[cwt]

That's Asahi Kasei Microsystems not Burr Brown. Not sure they were referring to the D2v or not(maybe the D2), but the D1 used AKM AK5495A for ADC and AKM AK4395 for DAC. Still can't find a reference from anthem on the model they use in the D2v.

Thats a new one Macca more used to seeing analog devices or BB dacs in components . I should have had a closer look at the model number ; I saw ADC 24/192 [ 24/96 would make everything much more usual ] and analog digital converter flew through to the keeper Couldnt find a ref either for the dacs . It looks like the upsampling is all about using a gentler filter system and not a brick wall type like dvd audio say . This is the D2 and things may have changed/upgraded though..

The D2 includes its own built-in state-of-the-art Upsampler incorporating Analog Devices’ AD 1896 and converts the sample rate of all incoming digital signals to 192 kHz. Since this is done completely inside the D2 there are no digital connections to limit the upsampling frequency. Our D/A converters then operate at their full 192 kHz capability. And unique to the D2, our Upsampler also operates on all decoded Dolby® Digital and DTS® program material.

OVERSAMPLING: Along with upsampling, the D2’s DACs also incorporate 128X oversampling to increase the sample rate to 24.576 MHz, thereby ensuring the best phase- and frequency-response possible.

This combination of upsampling and oversampling allows the D2 to use much gentler 3rd-order Bessel reconstruction filters. Measurable results are profoundly superior, reflecting exceptionally flat frequency response and THD+N in the upper frequencies up to twenty times lower than some of the best high-end outboard DACs.

[buddhamus]

That's Asahi Kasei Microsystems not Burr Brown. Not sure they were referring to the D2v or not(maybe the D2), but the D1 used AKM AK5495A for ADC and AKM AK4395 for DAC. Still can't find a reference from anthem on the model they use in the D2v.

No argument on the importance of supporting hardware, anything the signal passes through has the opportunity to degrade quality, the less degradation the better.

Really hard to fight the urge to upgrade given my 3808 is out of town

Cheers

What's the problem with the 3808?...I thought you got it back and it was all fixed?!

Blade - I think I have found my next processor upgrade....but most likely have to wait until I get my rears and 2nd submersive early next year. The Anthem D2V is most likely definetly going to be on the list but won't be able to purchase it for a while lol

Well done mate...looks like you are having a great time with it

[SimonNo10]

I'm going over to have a listen this Saturday so will post my impressions on Sunday, if I get out alive.

[MACCA350]

What's the problem with the 3808?...I thought you got it back and it was all fixed?!

So did I, plugged it in and it seemed fine so I paid no attention. Next day I had it running for an hour or two and went to change a CD only to find the darn buzzing was back with the cabinet doors open you could hear it at the listening seat. Once again it's quiet at startup but after some Tim it gets louder. Have the 3805 in the rack now and it's dead silent.

Anyway I dropped the 3808 off Tuesday and they're sending it up to Sydney.

Cheers

[K1LL3M]

Anyway I dropped the 3808 off Tuesday and they're sending it up to Sydney.

Do they think it needs a holiday

Edited August 19, 2010 by K1LL3M

[K1LL3M]

Blade, and anyone else, I read something interesting that triggered a light bulb question.

If the Cats are active, then they are also using DAC/ADC? In light of that, are the DAC/ADC in the D2V doing anything? Wouldn't the D2V just pass a solely digital processed/unprocessed signal to the Cats for conversion and output?

Edited August 19, 2010 by K1LL3M

[LuckyDog]

Blade, and anyone else, I read something interesting that triggered a light bulb question.

If the Cats are active, then they are also using DAC/ADC? In light of that, are the DAC/ADC in the D2V doing anything? Wouldn't the D2V just pass a solely digital processed/unprocessed signal to the Cats for conversion and output?

My guess is you were reading material about Meridian or similar, which do take a digital signal into the speakers. The Cat's, like many other active speakers take an analogue input, so there is no DAC in the amplifier within the speaker.

[K1LL3M]

My guess is you were reading material about Meridian or similar, which do take a digital signal into the speakers. The Cat's, like many other active speakers take an analogue input, so there is no DAC in the amplifier within the speaker.

But the Cats have a DSP, do they not?

[BladeRnR]

But the Cats have a DSP, do they not?

LD is right Kill. There's no DAC in the Catalyst/Spark although there is a "DSP Chip" to govern (I believe) the ICE Amplifiers behaviour but then only Mark could speak to that in detail and advise how much it affects the overall sonic result. Just how much this DSP affects the final Analog signal and resulting sound I could not tell you. Meridian is the only "Digital" Active speaker that I know of but then they must use Meridians propriety processor as well (The whole chain).

It might be a question you can pose in the Submersive GB thread or point Mark to your post here because I wouldn't mind knowing more about this aspect of his speakers. All I do know is that on the Submersive depending upon what position the SEL button is dictates which program the amplifier uses. With the HP version of the Submersive the "Other" Submersive DSP program can be employed which allows the driver to be driven a little harder due to the extra grunt on tap in the form of the 2400Watt amplifier. I would imagine the Catalyst/Sparks DSP's have been programmed with the same intent (To match the amplifier to the Woofer/Coaxial drivers physical abilities). But you're right in so much as a DSP chip works within the digital domain but in regards to the Catalyst is that just for the Amplifier stage - I'm pretty sure "yes" - it shouldn't touch / interact with the incoming Analog signal (Because that would mean the speaker *would* need a DAC in it because the signal coming from the DSP is digital and you'd need to go to Analog again).

From Wikipedia on D-Class Amplifiers I'm "guessing" the DSP Chip in the Catalyst/Sparks/Submersive regulates the resulting Output stage to best match the drivers abilities:

"The term "class-D" is sometimes misunderstood as meaning a "digital" amplifier. While some class-D amps may indeed be controlled by digital circuits, the power stage deals with voltage and current in function of time. The smallest amount of noise, timing uncertainty, voltage ripple or any other non-ideality immediately results in an irreversible change of the output signal. A digital circuit also uses physics to operate, but those same errors will only lead to incorrect results when they become so large that a signal representing a digit is distorted beyond recognition. Up to that point, non-idealities have no impact on the transmitted signal. The difference between digital and analogue signals is that digital signals are subsequently interpreted as numbers whereas in analogue signals the exact waveform matters.[1]

Nevertheless, the term "digital amplifier" has gained currency to denote class D amplifiers with significant amounts of digital processing in them".

But - I'm not the speaker designer so only Mark could answer that question definitively

Regards

Blade

Edited August 19, 2010 by BladeRnR

[K1LL3M]

LD is right Kill. There's no DAC in the Catalyst/Spark although there is a "DSP Chip" to govern (I believe) the ICE Amplifiers behaviour at certain frequencies but then only Mark could speak to that in detail and advise how much it affects the overall sonic result. Just how much this DSP affects the final Analog signal and resulting sound I could not tell you. Meridian is the only "Digital" Active speaker that I know of but then they must use Meridians propriety processor as well (The whole chain).

That makes sense regarding how the DSP could operate without DACs and makes me feel better for some reason.

[Drizt]

I was lead to believe the Seaton speakers all utilized digital crossovers? That means that any analogue signal coming in goes through a ADC conversion for DSP.

Or does Seaton utilize analogue active crossovers?

[cwt]

Cant speak to Marks design but its a misnomer to call all class d amps digital as Blade says ;my rotel 1077 [modified b&o ice amps ] sure isnt

http://www.hifi-advice.com/digital-amps-info.html

Cant really see Marks speakers using anything but digital xovers though as things like steep rolloff rates and phasing are more easily managed in the digital domain and would be hard pressed to find a active speaker with an analog x over in any case found this too;

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...t&p=1581662

Edited August 19, 2010 by cwt

[Drizt]

Your right, most actives do utilize digital active crossovers. I'm sure there are many others that use analogue active crossovers though. All SGR speakers (current range) utilize analogue active crossovers.

Cant really see Marks speakers using anything but digital xovers though as things like steep rolloff rates and phasing are more easily managed in the digital domain and would be hard pressed to find a active speaker with an analog x over in any case