Anthem AV Owners Thread

[cwt]

Your right, most actives do utilize digital active crossovers. I'm sure there are many others that use analogue active crossovers though. All SGR speakers (current range) utilize analogue active crossovers.

Its interesting that the dsp chip active crossovers virtually duplicate the analog characteristics of crossover types like linkwitz-reilly etc . SGR may prefer a simpler 1st order design to better match their drivers ;transients may benefit is the conventional wisdom iirc. This site vvv is very gung ho about digital crossovers; you may well have seen http://www.thuneau.com/ as well

http://www.home-speaker.net/speakercrossover.html

This was posted in 2004 by a speaker designer extolling the advantages of active and its obvious he is all for the digital variety of xovers right or wrong ;

The next step will be (of course) digital crossovers. I have one, and the ability to fine tune the network, apply delay to fully time align the respective loudspeakers, and the sheer control that each amplifier has over each connected driver, means that it is possible to make loudspeakers better than ever before. I use my digital for loudspeaker testing and development - my listening system uses an analogue 24dB/octave L-R crossover, and "time alignment" is achieved by reversing the phase of the tweeter. Not perfect, but it outperforms just about anything else I've heard. A full digital loudspeaker management system will be the next addition, and I already know just how good it will sound.

The days of the analogue active crossover are far from numbered, as this is still a good way for the budget-conscious audiophile to get the very best from available loudspeaker drivers, and with far fewer compromises than would be the case for a passive system. The overall cost will not be greatly higher for the DIY types, and the chances of success are improved beyond compare.

http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

[Drizt]

I believe SGR use exclusively 24dB slope crossovers in their analogue active crossovers.

Its interesting that the dsp chip active crossovers virtually duplicate the analog characteristics of crossover types like linkwitz-reilly etc . SGR may prefer a simpler 1st order design to better match their drivers ;transients may benefit is the conventional wisdom iirc. This site vvv is very gung ho about digital crossovers; you may well have seen http://www.thuneau.com/ as well

http://www.home-speaker.net/speakercrossover.html

This was posted in 2004 by a speaker designer extolling the advantages of active and its obvious he is all for the digital variety of xovers right or wrong ;

http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

[BladeRnR]

I'd certainly like a definitive answer from Mark Seaton as to how the Catalysts work in regards to Crossover and what function the DSP chip plays in the scheme of things. Given what Drizt/cwt have suggested I can't see the crossovers being anything but Digital either. And calling a D-Class Amplifier pure digital is a is a popular misconception (Read Wikipedia if you're interested) after reading cwt's link etc.

Blade

[K1LL3M]

All of my amplifiers use an ADC/DAC operating at 24bit/96kHz.

That brings me back to my original kind of thoughts/questions; if the signal is processed by DACs in the Cats, what benefit does the the HQ DACs of the D2V(or any pre) have/do?

Edited August 20, 2010 by K1LL3M

[Brad Cl]

Hi

All seaton speakers do use digital crossovers and do use an ADC on the input.

I asked Mark on the seaton forums a while ago about the possibility of having a digital input, but he didn't think that the extra ~$300 cost could be readily justified. There is also an issue about which digital interface to use. AES/EBU would be a good option, but not much consumer gear have these.

As to the concerns about the extra D/A to A/D conversion, the minuscule loss of signal fidelity is more than made up for by the gain in quality of the active digital crossovers.

Just to be clear, as you cannot gain fidelity, there is less loss of fidelity in this signal chain than a D/A -> analogue crossover signal chain.

[Drizt]

Just to be clear, as you cannot gain fidelity, there is less loss of fidelity in this signal chain than a D/A -> analogue crossover signal chain.

I'm not disagreeing with you as I don't know the real answer myself .... but....

Can you show me any links to confirm that there is less loss in a digital active crossover (would need to state resolution) compared to an analogue active crossover (or we you referring to passive crossovers)?

What resolution are the digital crossovers in the Seaton speakers ? 24/96 ?

[BladeRnR]

That brings me back to my original kind of thoughts/questions; if the signal is processed by DACs in the Cats, what benefit does the the HQ DACs of the D2V(or any pre) have/do?

Given Brad confirmed the existance of the ADC/DAC in the Catalyst chain I'd imagine the Anthem D2V is sending the upsampled 24/192Khz signal, The Catalyst processes it through the ADC>DAC and the result is 24/96Khz. So it's actually downsampling the signal from the Anthem D2V which kind of negates the benefit of the Upsampling in the first place yeah? So I'm guessing you'd get more benefit from the Anthem upsampling if the speakers employed passive crossovers as the upsample is kept untarnished right through the chain.

Well at least that's how I'd read it. Happy for somebody to correct me. Time for Mark to use higher resolution ADC/DAC's...

Blade

Edited August 20, 2010 by BladeRnR

[Drizt]

In the end I'm not sure how much audible effects there would be to the downsampling in the cats so I wouldn't worry too much.

Sometimes watching a vid like this can help bring things back into perspective ->

http://www.ethanwiner.com/aes/

Given Brad confirmed the existance of the ADC/DAC in the Catalyst chain I'd imagine the Anthem D2V is sending the upsampled 24/192Khz signal, The Catalyst processes it through the ADC>DAC and the result is 24/96Khz. So it's actually downsampling the signal from the Anthem D2V which kind of negates the benefit of the Upsampling in the first place yeah? So I'm guessing you'd get more benefit from the Anthem upsampling if the speakers employed passive crossovers as the upsample is kept untarnished right through the chain.

Well at least that's how I'd read it. Happy for somebody to correct me. Time for Mark to use higher resolution ADC/DAC's...

Blade

[MACCA350]

The main benefit of using high resolution ADC/DAC is to keep processing noise away from the audio signal. As far as the Cats are concerned they are rated at 55hz-21khz and Mark has mentioned they will do around 130db+. Given that the onboard processing is performed at 24/96 which covers up to 48khz in signal frequency and 144db in signal dynamics......more than enough to keep processing outside of their intended output range. And as has been mentioned there are benefits in the DSP processing as opposed to an analog crossover network, not just in the crossovers themselves but in other features like frequency and phase contouring, driver time alignment and many others.

The benefits of upsampling in the d2v may still be apparent since it is still keeping processing noise well outside of the sources native recorded envelope(think cd at 16/44.1 with 96db and 22hz), obviously this may be less apparent with higher resolution sources.

In the end it's not a single chip that makes a quality speaker, or other component, good it's the whole kit and caboodle and it's design and implementation.

Anyway.....I have a confession, I caved.......again

Spat the chips with the 3808 and it's trips away and went and picked up a D2v this arvo

Special thanks to Phil and Warwick at Puremusicgroup for obliging my impatience

If anyone is interested, being an Anthem Statement dealer, Phil has one setup which I'm sure he'd be happy to demo.

Now to get this thing hooked up

Cheers

Edited August 20, 2010 by MACCA350

[myrantz]

The main benefit of using high resolution ADC/DAC is to keep processing noise away from the audio signal. As far as the Cats are concerned they are rated at 55hz-21khz and Mark has mentioned they will do around 130db+. Given that the onboard processing is performed at 24/96 which covers up to 48khz in signal frequency and 144db in signal dynamics......

Sampling theory .. geek...

Anyway.....I have a confession, I caved.......again

Spat the chips with the 3808 and it's trips away and went and picked up a D2v this arvo

Now that's more like it! Congrats..

[BladeRnR]

The main benefit of using high resolution ADC/DAC is to keep processing noise away from the audio signal. As far as the Cats are concerned they are rated at 55hz-21khz and Mark has mentioned they will do around 130db+. Given that the onboard processing is performed at 24/96 which covers up to 48khz in signal frequency and 144db in signal dynamics......more than enough to keep processing outside of their intended output range. And as has been mentioned there are benefits in the DSP processing as opposed to an analog crossover network, not just in the crossovers themselves but in other features like frequency and phase contouring, driver time alignment and many others.

The benefits of upsampling in the d2v may still be apparent since it is still keeping processing noise well outside of the sources native recorded envelope(think cd at 16/44.1 with 96db and 22hz), obviously this may be less apparent with higher resolution sources.

In the end it's not a single chip that makes a quality speaker, or other component, good it's the whole kit and caboodle and it's design and implementation.

Anyway.....I have a confession, I caved.......again

Spat the chips with the 3808 and it's trips away and went and picked up a D2v this arvo

Special thanks to Phil and Warwick at Puremusicgroup for obliging my impatience

If anyone is interested, being an Anthem Statement dealer, Phil has one setup which I'm sure he'd be happy to demo.

Now to get this thing hooked up

Cheers

LOL what a classic - you're incorrigable mate! And it didn't even take a visit to sway you either . Are we going to go upgrade for upgrade?....I'll raise you a pair of CAT8C's for rears...

Thanks for the clarification regarding ADC/DAC - I knew you'd make sense of it and convey it in laymans terms.

Have fun with the Anthem D2V and let us know what you think. Having a major demonstration session on the weekend with lots of material.

Blade

[Brad Cl]

One difference between analog active and digital active crossovers, if that analog active ones can only use the same topology as used in passive crossovers. Whereas digital crossover can use 'ideal' filters that have linear phase. This requires FIR filters, I think most implementations will use IIR filters and so not be quite as ideal!

Here's a link comparing the phase of different crossovers

http://martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/for...ad.php?p=105651

The other main benefit of digital DSP crossovers is the ability to do driver linearisation. I am sure Mark Seaton could talk more about this.

[dantan]

You should be getting some form of commission for every D2V sold in Australia, Justin.

[BladeRnR]

You should be getting some form of commission for every D2V sold in Australia, Justin.

20% would do nicely thanks

Blade

[cwt]

I'm not disagreeing with you as I don't know the real answer myself .... but....

Can you show me any links to confirm that there is less loss in a digital active crossover (would need to state resolution) compared to an analogue active crossover (or we you referring to passive crossovers)?

What resolution are the digital crossovers in the Seaton speakers ? 24/96 ?

Not quite what your referring too Drizt but a steeper crossover slope that digital can give rather than 24db/octave like you mentioned [ though still good] is for the better ?[ not that I know what rate the catalysts do ?] In terms of a less disturbed/ more intact frequency response Deqx explains it well .. as has Brad and Macca ..

http://www.deqx.com/technologydigital.php

[MACCA350]

LOL what a classic - you're incorrigable mate! And it didn't even take a visit to sway you either . Are we going to go upgrade for upgrade?....I'll raise you a pair of CAT8C's for rears...

not while the Sparks are still in their boxes......wallets staying in the pocket for now

Thanks for the clarification regarding ADC/DAC - I knew you'd make sense of it and convey it in laymans terms.

Have fun with the Anthem D2V and let us know what you think. Having a major demonstration session on the weekend with lots of material.

Blade

Fun's the word alright...........anyone in the room flown the space shuttle recently?

One question, have you worked out how to stop the audio from being sent through to the HDMI 2 output. I'm running both Projector(HDMI 1) and LCD(HDMI 2) and with the TV on I get sound from both the Seaton kit and the TV itself. I'll swap the outputs around and see if it's the same on HDMI 1. The 3808 had an option to either keep the audio in the AVR or pass it on to the display, but can't seem to find a similar option in the D2v.............I'll be nose deep R(ing)TFM

You demoing for yourself or have a few around?

Cheers

[SimonNo10]

You demoing for yourself or have a few around?

I'm heading over to his place tomorrow to hear the system. Can't wait been hanging all week.

[BladeRnR]

Fun's the word alright...........anyone in the room flown the space shuttle recently?

One question, have you worked out how to stop the audio from being sent through to the HDMI 2 output. I'm running both Projector(HDMI 1) and LCD(HDMI 2) and with the TV on I get sound from both the Seaton kit and the TV itself. I'll swap the outputs around and see if it's the same on HDMI 1. The 3808 had an option to either keep the audio in the AVR or pass it on to the display, but can't seem to find a similar option in the D2v.............I'll be nose deep R(ing)TFM

You demoing for yourself or have a few around?

Cheers

Hey mate,

I'm not using HDMI 2 Output but from what the manual says HDMI 1 Output & HDMI 2 Output run in parallel. I've looked in the manual and there doesn't seem to be a separate control "just" for HDMI 1/2 Outputs in Source Setup. It might be a question that can be answered on AVS Forum - worth asking.

I'm sure your initial impressions of the D2V menu options were a little bewildering. The fact you can have 4 video configurations per Source is a moment. This is cool if you want to have Config 1 all digital and Config 2 say output Video via HDMI and Audio via Analog (Which is what I'll do for the UD9004). The video options alone are pretty substantial for a processor. I tried "Mono Academy" on The Wizard Of Oz just to see what it was like and what a difference it makes. It's a very brassy soundtrack given it has extreme treble boost which they did in the 30's/40's as the speakers were behind heavy curtains.

Just Simon coming over tomorrow. He wants a serious demo before he shells out for one in a week or 2. Like you I think he's already convinced himself anyway

Let us know if you find a solution for the HDMI 1 & 2 output conundrum.

Cheers

Blade

[Drizt]

Can't wait to hear this unit some day. I've had an offer for a listen to LD's brilliant system. Its alway hard to say not to a visit to LD. I've never heard any of the Adam active speakers either so that would be exciting.

Very envious of you guys and all your upgrades

[bradp51]

Can't wait to hear this unit some day. I've had an offer for a listen to LD's brilliant system. Its alway hard to say not to a visit to LD. I've never heard any of the Adam active speakers either so that would be exciting.

Very envious of you guys and all your upgrades

Hey Dritz,

How could you be envious of anyone....LOL You have some of the best gear here on the forum and very expensive too from what i imagine.

cheers

[Drizt]

Hey Dritz,

How could you be envious of anyone....LOL You have some of the best gear here on the forum and very expensive too from what i imagine.

cheers

Thank you for the compliment mate

I do enjoy upgrading though, and its something I haven't done in a while. And that Anthem unit is quite a few steps up from the Integra in terms of price and performance it would seem.

[SimonNo10]

I'm here at my brothers place and I'm still alive. Just when I thought his system couldn't get any better...along comes the Anthem. I knew it was going to be good but holy crap not this good. First off lets get to the most important thing...the box it came in.... Seriously I thought the cosmetics of the unit with all the buttons on the faceplate would be ugly but there not that noticable and you just forget there on there. Helps that they are small and the remote is almost identical to the Arcam AV8 I used to own. Overall a very nice looking unit and one I would gladly have in my equipment rack all I can say is it looks like a serious piece of kit.

Now onto the sound...OMG this system is down right scary. The dynamics are just insane, pin point accurate and the bass WOW. We tried the favourites Hulk (Edward Norton), Ironman,LOTR-Fellowship and of course WOTW and it was that one that has sold me on the Anthem. The fighter planes flying (the whole attack scene) over and the pod emerging is the best I've heard this disc, I actually ducked and reeled back. I can't describe just how amazing this system sounds, the Anthem again has revealed even more detail that I have not heard before and I know and watched those scenes we watched too many times on mine system. From quite scenes to high impact the Anthem just takes it in its stride and it draws you in and you forget about time and wonder where the day has gone.

I could go on about this but wanted to keep it short. I'm still just recovering from what I've heard and congrats to Blade on his new addition to his HT. IMO it's one of the best processors I've heard and just looking at the options shows just how serious Anthem are with their products. Now to convince my brother if I can rent a room here

Edited August 21, 2010 by SimonNo10

[LuckyDog]

The main benefit of using high resolution ADC/DAC is to keep processing noise away from the audio signal. As far as the Cats are concerned they are rated at 55hz-21khz and Mark has mentioned they will do around 130db+. Given that the onboard processing is performed at 24/96 which covers up to 48khz in signal frequency and 144db in signal dynamics......more than enough to keep processing outside of their intended output range. And as has been mentioned there are benefits in the DSP processing as opposed to an analog crossover network, not just in the crossovers themselves but in other features like frequency and phase contouring, driver time alignment and many others.

The benefits of upsampling in the d2v may still be apparent since it is still keeping processing noise well outside of the sources native recorded envelope(think cd at 16/44.1 with 96db and 22hz), obviously this may be less apparent with higher resolution sources.

In the end it's not a single chip that makes a quality speaker, or other component, good it's the whole kit and caboodle and it's design and implementation.

Anyway.....I have a confession, I caved.......again

Spat the chips with the 3808 and it's trips away and went and picked up a D2v this arvo

Special thanks to Phil and Warwick at Puremusicgroup for obliging my impatience

If anyone is interested, being an Anthem Statement dealer, Phil has one setup which I'm sure he'd be happy to demo.

Now to get this thing hooked up

Cheers

Cheers Macca

Thanks for the nice comments and thanks also for being an excellent customer. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts as you get it dialled in.

I continue to be really impressed by this processor and late tomorrow I plan to have a play with the advanced ARC settings. Two stand-out results for me is how much smoother the sound from the centre channel is. Even at high SPL, the speech coming from the centre does not get as forward sounding as it could do with my previous set up. The second is the bass is the best I've yet achieved in my room with ARC controlling my 3 subs. A 4th sub will be added sometime in the near future.

[Drizt]

Outstanding mate.

Cheers Macca

Thanks for the nice comments and thanks also for being an excellent customer. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts as you get it dialled in.

I continue to be really impressed by this processor and late tomorrow I plan to have a play with the advanced ARC settings. Two stand-out results for me is how much smoother the sound from the centre channel is. Even at high SPL, the speech coming from the centre does not get as forward sounding as it could do with my previous set up. The second is the bass is the best I've yet achieved in my room with ARC controlling my 3 subs. A 4th sub will be added sometime in the near future.

[LuckyDog]

Outstanding mate.

Cheers Drizt. Really loving having a remote for volume for the first time in a while!