NBN HFC setup question

[soundbyte]

28 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

LOL!

 

The last course I did before I left was the fibre cable joining course!...............but I was involved in the decommissioning of the last Strowger exchange in Sydney..........

There are still a few of us PMG trained technicians about, some maybe still working, in this case it would seem making the NBN function.

Probably unlikely to have actually been a PMG trained technician, but I like the inference that the PMG technicians could get things fixed.

 

Strowger, now there's a name for you, had forgotten that one.

Day after day of practice to learn how to adjust and clean that step equipment.

3000 type relays with their contacts with the long rectangular gram gauges and don't forget the uniselectors!

Cleaning the rows and rows of contacts on the racks of equipment with the grey semicircular cleaning pads mounted on the blue handle.

 

Terminating cables, some more than 200 pairs (most that size on the MDF).

Lacing the cables into nice neat blocks on top of the racks with a modified hacksaw blade and twine, with each cable neatly arranged both entering and exiting the block.

Blue, orange, green, brown, slate and their mates, hence the colourblind test.

 

What about the noise of the step and crossbar exchanges when the local radio station had a phone in competition?

What a RACKET!

[LogicprObe]

Man..........I was part of the install team for adding direct dial trunking to the crossbar exchanges.................there'd be just days of terminating, testing then soldering 50 pair cables.

No wonder I got piles!

[soundbyte]

Remember sitting on the floor, ladders and scaffolding doing that routine!

I still have some of the terminating tools required to do that!

[Full Range]

I have just received the letter from NBN that we will be connected to the NBN over the next few months 

The info received indicated that a HFC connection will be installed on my property 

Now on Optus cable 

No other info apart from choosing a suplier or renewing with current suplier - When that time comes I will renew with Optus 

 

How does HFC differ with FTTN 

And can I upgrade - even if I have to pay - to a full fibre system to my address

If available.  -  Would That give me a speed advance? 

 

Just at hope I won’t be in NZ when they turn up 

 

[Guest]

Your HFC connection is a later version of Optus cable, connected with a new cable. Like Optus cable, HFC speed will be dependent on how many connections are using the pipe (and also your ISP wholesale pipe).

 

No, you can't upgrade. FTTN is the other common technology used. HFC is SUPPOSED to be faster than FTTN but who knows what it will be like until you get it!!  When NBN is ready, you will be given a certain time to change over, then Optus Cable will be switched off.

[Full Range]

Thanks 

Having read this thread again, I have come away with a bad feeling 

So I will wait till the last month allowable for the switch 

 

Also we like and use a landline ? 

A relative is a licensed electrician and also wires up networks so I may get him involved when the time comes 

 

He recently fitted wired / linked  ( AC/DC) smoke detectors in my house as it’s compulsory in QLD 

[Guest]

Am on Telstra Cable, got my NBN letter late last year, supposed to start now laying HFC, but likely delayed because of the fracas last year. The letter said that a new overhead cable will be laid but many of us have Telstra cable with an underground conduit.  And I do know that Telstra have maintained it, even upgrading it when it slowed down.

 

I am not looking forward to the NBN changeover, with the ISP vultures circling (a once in a lifetime opportunity when all customers have to switch technology) and uncertain speeds, horror stories etc. Not a Telstra fan but I have to give them credit for my cable service.

[Full Range]

41 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

The letter said that a new overhead cable

 

I have the same wording on the pamphlet 

But my cable is on power poles so they will probably follow that direct connection path 

 

They also mention in the next paragraph that they will go underground if no usable areal connection is available 

[Guest]

On 11/12/2017 at 2:02 PM, Snoopy8 said:

I think/hope this 6-9 months HFC delay is a blessing for me, pushing my area back to 2019. Or am I expecting too much that it will be fixed by then??? 

My NBN has now been pushed back to the first half of 2020, 2 years later than first indicated.  

 

The only plus is that rather than HFC, we are getting FTTC, fibre to the curb.

[betty boop]

26 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

My NBN has now been pushed back to the first half of 2020, 2 years later than first indicated.  

 

The only plus is that rather than HFC, we are getting FTTC, fibre to the curb.

no surprise really, what happened with ours.... any projector manager delivering a project two years late in the private sector would unlikely ever get another job ever again..... but in this mis management that is the nbn its all perfectly acceptable 

[davewantsmoore]

25 minutes ago, al said:

any projector manager delivering a project two years late

Is the PM the Government, or is it NBNCo....   cos if you are blaming NBNCo for this, then that's unfair.

 

56 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

The only plus is that rather than HFC, we are getting FTTC, fibre to the curb.

It's probably better, although hard to say in the medium-term that it will be any different.

 

FWIW, many of the 2020 reschedules now simply represent "date not known"... and it might be sooner.

 

My NBN was also 2 years delayed (2016 instead of 2014), due to the reprogramming by the coalition..... this is a similar issue.   Coalition reprogrammed the work (for HFC) and now it turns out they need to do it again, cos HFC didn't work out (just as everyone warned them).     My point is, that this isn't NBNCo's fault.   

 

35 minutes ago, al said:

mis management

If you compare the NBN project to other similar projects elsewhere, then even with the government meddling taken out of the equation, it is still quite a well running program all things considered.    8 year (or 10 depending on how you want to count) is not too bad.    The media like to tell us otherwise, but they do like to drum up the "rabble rabble".

 

Let's see if they finish in 2020.   It will depends on whether the goalposts get moved again or not 

 

 

Disclaimer: I sell (well, my employer does) wholesale services to NBNCo (among many others) that underpin the NBN .... so I might be horribly biased ... or I might actually have some real perspective.    Probably hard to tell.

[davewantsmoore]

On 29/01/2018 at 5:57 PM, Snoopy8 said:

HFC is SUPPOSED to be faster than FTTN but who knows what it will be like until you get it!!

The performance expectation for HFC is clear.

 

HFC is guaranteed by NBN (to your ISP) to run at 100/40 with zero problem  (otherwise, fault for fix).

 

FTTN, in contrast can only run at minimum 12/1 before fault (or 25/5 in areas past their 'coexistence period').

 

 

In the future....  there are new speed bins coming from 100 to 1000, in 100mbps increments.    So for example you will be able to order a 400/160mbps service.  The service qualification process for these is unclear .... ie. who can apply ... and who can log a fault for what when it doesn't work?

[Guest]

According to the table in this article, HFC is the most unreliable

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-17/how-to-win-the-nbn-lottery/9644684

 

In one way, the delay is a blessing in disguise. My Telstra cable is working well and fast (50/5), even during peak periods. And hopefully in 2 years, any technological challenges with FTTC will be well and truly ironed out? Or am I expecting too much? 

[davewantsmoore]

2 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

According to the table in this article, HFC is the most unreliable

Yes, it's why the rollout got paused.    The network is not in sufficient condition to do what was planned with it.   There is interference from and with existing paytv services... and a lot of other copper rework needed.

 

There's no reason to expect that once things are actually working, that HFC will be any more/less reliable.

 

2 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

any technological challenges with FTTC will be well and truly ironed out?

There's no 'technologic challenge' with FTTC per se.... it is just DSL technology like we've all been using for more than 20 years.

 

The issue (where there are any) are with the quality of the existing copper cable, and/or the need to run new cable for premises in the areas which don't already have them.   You'll be fine.

 

10 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-17/how-to-win-the-nbn-lottery/9644684

 

The article makes a couple of "misleading" statements.

 

Quote

Plus, the NBN often gets congested between 7pm and 11pm

Aside from fixed-wireless and satellite, which have known congestion problems ..... the NBN component of the network essentially does not suffer from congestion, ever.     It is the link from the ISPs network to the NBN routing points which suffers congestion.... this link is provided by the ISP, and the size/reliability, etc. is the responsibility of the ISP.

 

This was also the case before NBN ... however ISPs are choosing to run much higher contention ratios on the NBN  (how many customers might need to fight for a limited pool of speed) .   This is not surprising when the pipe to your house is 10x faster, but the price is not 10x higher.

 

Quote

For both speed and reliability, the table highlights that some technologies are better than others.

The worst wired connection in that table (HFC) which as mentioned, is artificially high (due to the paused rollout)....  Has 99.8% uptime.    This is beyond excellent.    Actually, it's so high I don't believe it.     It basically says "the entire wired NBN is practically perfect".

 

Telling people to look at the table, and frown on the ones (like HFC) which have lower uptime .... is more than a little bit FUD.

[larry42]

We used to get 100 down and 2 up with Telstra hfc cable , we now get 95 up and 37 down with Telstra hfc nbn, so it’s been great . 4K Netflix is nice. We can have multiple kids gaming at Netflix running with no issues

 

We have fiber nearby , but both my neighbours are building new houses and I’ve been told they are going with cable Also, I might consider fiber if they do ( both houses are huge with lots of automation etc) 

 

ive read docsis will update once foxtel leave hfc cable and higher speeds than 100/40 will be available 

[davewantsmoore]

4 minutes ago, larry2 said:

ive read docsis will update once foxtel leave hfc cable and higher speeds than 100/40 will be available 

You should expect up to 1000mbps in the next few years....

Edited August 25, 2018 by davewantsmoore

[larry42]

Yes, I am looking forward to that, it should be fun

not sure how long I have to wait though 

[davewantsmoore]

The upgrade (swap out of the customer end equipment) is in the roadmap for end of 2018 .... but the one I see hasn't been adjusted since the HFC rollout was paused/resumed.  So I'd expect it is going to get pushed.

 

Service availability through typical ISPs would likely not show up until the speed tiers that are going to available between 100 and 1000 mbps are sorted out.    This will likely wait until the mechanisms to determine whether a premise can work at a specific speed tier is finalised   (Example.    Someone on FTTC/FFTB/FTTN wants a "500mbps service" .... how to determine if their line should work at that speed or not?) ..... and until pricing becomes 'reasonable' for consumers.

 

The classic example (re: pricing) is that we have had 1000mbps services available for ~5 years for those with FTTP....  but there are basically zero ISPs who advertise the service .... and only a small number who don't advertise it, but would provide it if requested.

 

 

[Full Range]

Update on my HFC connection 

Another letter arrived and has indicated connection will be completed in a time period over the next 4 months 

 

 

[davewantsmoore]

21 hours ago, larry2 said:

Yes, I am looking forward to that, it should be fun

's about $300 a month for a typical residential service (ie. 'acceptable usage policies')

[larry42]

It costs me about $110/month for 100/40, with unlimited download , and I get pretty close up those speeds . Still higher speeds in the future could be a good option. 

[davewantsmoore]

3 minutes ago, larry2 said:

unlimited download

 

Will cost quite a lot more than $300/mo.

 

I found $450/month for 50GB data/day (unused data is banked forever) so about 1.5TB data/month averaged .... but if you want to really be able to thump an ISPs network then you'll have to pay  (unlimited 1gbps means you could download >10TB data in a month)

[larry42]

i only ever use 200-500GB of DL a month

so i dont really need unlimited, but thats what telstra offered

but with more 4K netflix coming, plus kids gaming, i suppose faster speed could be nice

[davewantsmoore]

Not great short-term news for HFC connections on NBN being able to access higher speeds than 100mbps before the end of the rollout.    Although, to be fair there was never any documented plan for >100mbps on HFC before the end of the rollout (unlike FTTC/B).

 

Quote

“Although DOCSIS 3.1 does enable higher speeds on HFC networks that is not our core focus at this present time.

 

From an NBN Co point of view DOCSIS 3.1 will help us increase capacity on the HFC network far more efficiently than conducting new optical node splits which will, in turn, free up construction resources elsewhere to complete the network build by 2020"

 

[Full Range]

@davewantsmoore   You are probably up to date with this new development 

 

Fibre 20 times faster than the NBN 

 

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/09/fibre-20-times-faster-than-the-nbn-is-coming-to-sydney/

 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Full Range