JSmith Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, blybo said: Just because I have insurance doesn't mean I won't take precautions with surge protection Oh I see... yes protection is very important. JSmith
DRC Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, JSmith said: JSmith Thunderbolt and Lightning? got it. 2
Jeddie Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 I got first hand experience with this. There was a big lighting strike to the gum tree next door to us about 10 years. The tree basically splintered and left crap all over his back yard. My only damage was my modem was fried. I asked my neighbour about his damage. He said everything - TV Fridge, stereo the lot. So now when an electrical storm looks imminent, I do unplug my PC & TV/Stereo.
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 20 hours ago, stereo coffee said: Trouble is you sometimes cannot be at home when lightning is occurring. I recall in 2009 solving lightning strike issues very effectively, but the methods we used remain quite impractical for most forum members. The solution at that time was deep grounding involving using Ground enhancing material and earthing rods dropped into the earth to a depth of 23 metres - as I said quite impractical for most. Not only did we have no further annual damage to transmission assets, but we also remained on air, during the most violent weather nature could throw at us. Just how much impractical is this? What does the job involve? It really sounds like a perfect solution.
swervyn Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: Just how much impractical is this? What does the job involve? It really sounds like a perfect solution. Well for starters involves getting an earthing rod 23.5mts long! Pretty impractical for most I would of thought
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, swervyn said: Well for starters involves getting an earthing rod 23.5mts long! Pretty impractical for most I would of thought. I found an ABC webpage "Farmers joining long queue for stock and domestic bores" that gives some idea about the cost of getting a water borehole. This ought to be a much smaller hole, and the cost should be much lower. It would be something worth doing in a lightning-prone area. The cost of the rod is unknown, though.
LogicprObe Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 8 hours ago, JSmith said: That's right, 4 times more often... regardless of shoes worn or tarps erected. JSmith What I meant was...........throw a tarp over the gear............and run inside!
stereo coffee Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: Just how much impractical is this? What does the job involve? It really sounds like a perfect solution. If planned as a method to stop damage from lightning, and you are in a lightning known or prone area, it checks out to be very cost effective. I recall obtaining the rods from this firm https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R2878 and using Ground enhancing material. We had bored holes of 20cm width and installed 2 rods each of 23 metre length , one at the transmission hut, and the other at the antenna mast which was an AM broadcast site. The work in terms of community improvement, basically paid for itself as we also located a water bore which the local fire authority could then use, when and if required. The results spoke for themselves, prior to the rods we were off air for over 8 months awaiting yet more sacrificial transmitters. Following the rods we remained on air during the worst storms. A paper here looks at case studies http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm 2
aussievintage Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 Someone above mentioned a modem. A modem (and the comm port it plugged into) is the only thing I ever lost in my house. Hoping I stay lucky. Yep, next to TV antennas, phone lines are another good way to get lightning into your house. But like someone else said, over-voltage protection is not really lightning protection.
blybo Posted February 1, 2018 Author Posted February 1, 2018 Is having your TV antenna in the roof of any benefit? Apart from aesthetics? We don't watch FTA broadcasts ourselves (foxtel) so it's never connected anyway...
aussievintage Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, blybo said: Is having your TV antenna in the roof of any benefit? Apart from aesthetics? We don't watch FTA broadcasts ourselves (foxtel) so it's never connected anyway... As lightning tends to seek the highest point, having an antenna in the roof should help, especially if you fit a lightning rod higher up.
JSmith Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 On 30/01/2018 at 4:45 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: The chances of damage through power lines is almost non-existent. Not sure about non-existent Zaph, but certainly not as damaging as a more direct strike; http://www.psihq.com/iread/strplai.htm Induction is the principle that allows power companies to generate electricity for electric motors to run, telephones to work, etc. It is also the principle that allows lighting to enter power, data, coax and communication and telephone lines. JSmith
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, JSmith said: Not sure about non-existent Zaph, but certainly not as damaging as a more direct strike; http://www.psihq.com/iread/strplai.htm Induction is the principle that allows power companies to generate electricity for electric motors to run, telephones to work, etc. It is also the principle that allows lighting to enter power, data, coax and communication and telephone lines. JSmith Not under dispute. However, the potential for damage is. There are several misleading statements in the cite. This one: "A copper wire is an excellent conductor of energy, consequently, it is common for lightning to induce many thousands of volts of energy even though the lightning may strike some distance from the wire." Is really bad. The conductivity of the wire dictates the amount of current flow, not the Voltage. Then there is the most important part: "Bell Labs determined through experimentation that a lightning strike almost a mile away from phone lines would induce 35+ volts per meter (39") of exposed wire. Lightning doesn’t have to actually strike the wire since the energy is transferred into the wire by induction." So, if we assume the width of the lightning is 1 Metre, then we can expect an over-Voltage of around 35 Volts.
JSmith Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: So, if we assume the width of the lightning is 1 Metre, then we can expect an over-Voltage of around 35 Volts. It's 35V per metre of exposed wire and telecommunication lines usually come in pairs, so double that. This is one reason why people are warned about using land lines in a storm. Electrical lines have more surface area than telecommunication lines, however are generally earthed, reducing the chances of large voltage surges due to induction. As we were discussing though a large direct strike is very difficult to protect against. JSmith
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, JSmith said: It's 35V per metre of exposed wire and telecommunication lines usually come in pairs, so double that. This is one reason why people are warned about using land lines in a storm. Electrical lines have more surface area than telecommunication lines, however are generally earthed, reducing the chances of large voltage surges due to induction. As we were discussing though a large direct strike is very difficult to protect against. JSmith All good points and good reason that the electrical guys are switching to ABCs (Aerial Bundled Cables), as common mode rejection should be better.
Beacon Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 Nothing but nothing will protect your equipment against a lightning strike. Let's think about this for a second.... A bolt of lightning contains enough electrical energy to blow a large gum tree apart (I have an example at the back of my place) so any device you may buy to protect your equipment had better be a pretty serious piece of kit. Such devices simply do not exist - at least for us mortals. The only way to protect your equipment, as has been stated here, is to be alert to the weather forecast and unplug your gear. That means everything. A spark which can travel 10 km or more through the atmosphere with an electrical potential of several million volts isn't going to be fazed by a surge protector! 2
bzr Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Yep, I agree! Last storm strike I had I was wearing my Thor god of thunder helmet & it still blew the hell out of my Soulution!
Darren69 Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, bzr said: Yep, I agree! Last storm strike I had I was wearing my Thor god of thunder helmet & it still blew the hell out of my Soulution! 1
JSmith Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 For telecommunication and antenna circuits; https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-230V-Gas-Discharge-Type-Surge-Arrester-3-Electrode-RS5426-/253378771243 JSmith
Guest Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 There is another way of protecting the gear from the Retail electricity system, and that is, not be part of it. Build a battery fed stand alone supply and even then nothing will protect you from a direct hit. It will protect a lot of the say $50K stereo though for ground potential rise transient and your stand alone won't see it.
Stump Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, bzr said: Yep, I agree! Last storm strike I had I was wearing my Thor god of thunder helmet & it still blew the hell out of my Soulution! Did it effect your tubes?
bzr Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 15 hours ago, Stump said: Did it effect your tubes? Fried everything connected to the modem & the helmet!
bzr Posted February 3, 2018 Posted February 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Darren69 said: This explains everything ? Yeahhhh..... insert pirate accent here arrrrrr, still get a bit cranky within 6000 miles of a lecky storm I do !! 1
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