milkafromdtv Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 Hi all, Former DTVForum member that's tried to stay away for the most part as I tend to drop coin when I start reading forums like this. Have had the audio side of my HT setup sorted for quite a while, once again thanks DTV / Mark Seaton, and would like to keep the dual-view option available with the Panasonic VT60 plasma for lite viewing and a projector for serious viewing. Room is nice and dark at night and can be made darker during the day with some minor window treatments. Way I'm looking at the image below is that thanks to the height of the Seaton Catalysts (ignore current configuration, one of them normally sits as Centre on top of tv unit), I can really only get an approximately 100inch motorised screen into this space, which is obviously still miles better than 65 inch. So looking for recommendations on a motorised screen and a projector with a total budget of $5-7k? I would prefer 4k as my eyes seem to be able to resolve a lot of detail, and I already have a reasonable amount of 4k material, and another room that's 4k enabled, but understand that at this price point I'm going to be dealing with a pixel shifter. Really appreciate any assistance you can provide on this! Cheers, milka
betty boop Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 milka the 5-7k budget would easily do a jvc x5900 and screen technics premium electricinema 100" but.... a few things to consider for a 100" screen thx recommended distance for immersion is 3041. so a 100" screen at 4.5m is not likely to be completely immersive. At this distance you will not fully resolve 1080p forget about 4k. distance to fully resolve 1080p is 3.94 m. does it mean you wont receive any benefit from a 4k/uhd projector ? no that is not the case. you will because of the wider colour gamut ability, going beyond SDR with HDR and also where with 1080p projectors best likely seeing resolution was 1-1.5k now will be getting 2k and beyond. also keep in mind with a 100" motorised screen you would need to check a few things.... https://screentechnics.com.au/products/projection-screens/motorised-screens/electricinema-premium-motorised-screen#features check the exact size of the box. check the exact size of screen the size of blackout border around screen and the drop rod. as you are looking to be VERY close in fitting in... probably too close for liking ? a 100" screen has a screen height of 1246+970 for your speakers.... and you are 2246 already... out of 2400 ceiling height you have. leaving only 184mm for motor box, drop bar and black borders above and below ? if you download their pdf you will see that the box is 100mm...blasck borders 50 + 50mm and drop bar 24mm... which am sorry to say adds up to 224... ie 40mm more than you have ! you might be able to save 50mm by requesting a 25mm borders up and down instead. one of benefits of buying from a local aussie company that will make the order a week after you place it. so worth giving them a call to talk. other thing. this will place you screen pretty much at ceiling height. there are two things to consider here. one so close to the ceiling you will get reflections off the ceiling. you either accept that or you mask that out with darker matt ceiling / masking. it looks a pretty lounge room like setting so you may or may not be able to do that. 2nd you have a ceiling fan. you will need to mount your projector lower than ceiling height to miss the fan when projecting. perhaps on a shelf/book shelf at the back behind your seating ? is this possible ? or you will need to use your projector on extension pole. which isnt a bother you can with the peerless mounts which would use with a projector like this buy a pole to suit. but i dont know what you have back there and whether all this is suitable. 3rdly wiht the screen up towards the ceiling you will be forced to look up ? i hope this is something have considered and ok with. ultimately I would suggest you move your seating forward to get better resolving power and immersion with the screen. eg myself i am running a smaller 92" screen though viewing at 2.8m which gives THX spec for immersion over resolving of 1080p and hence some gains with uhd which can deliver some 3-3.5k. I dont know if this is an issue moving forward ? how big is the room ? best to sit at 2/3rd room depth for audio and picture wise will likely find this works a treat. otherwise can you move the couch 1m forward to get to 3.5m at least from screen this is 36" THX will over resolve 1080p to give some benefit with uhd. lastly I see a huge big opening to the left of where screen will be.... have you got a way of blocking light from that ? it will be needed or will kill the picture on screen. a black velvet curtain with block out could sit on the inside of the room side of door way that you would close at viewing time and wouldnt cost a lot at all but be very necessary to improve versatility of the setup for day time viewing. 1
milkafromdtv Posted May 27, 2018 Author Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, al said: milka the 5-7k budget would easily do a jvc x5900 and screen technics premium electricinema 100" but.... a few things to consider for a 100" screen thx recommended distance for immersion is 3041. so a 100" screen at 4.5m is not likely to be completely immersive. At this distance you will not fully resolve 1080p forget about 4k. distance to fully resolve 1080p is 3.94 m. does it mean you wont receive any benefit from a 4k/uhd projector ? no that is not the case. you will because of the wider colour gamut ability, going beyond SDR with HDR and also where with 1080p projectors best likely seeing resolution was 1-1.5k now will be getting 2k and beyond. also keep in mind with a 100" motorised screen you would need to check a few things.... https://screentechnics.com.au/products/projection-screens/motorised-screens/electricinema-premium-motorised-screen#features check the exact size of the box. check the exact size of screen the size of blackout border around screen and the drop rod. as you are looking to be VERY close in fitting in... probably too close for liking ? a 100" screen has a screen height of 1246+970 for your speakers.... and you are 2246 already... out of 2400 ceiling height you have. leaving only 184mm for motor box, drop bar and black borders above and below ? if you download their pdf you will see that the box is 100mm...blasck borders 50 + 50mm and drop bar 24mm... which am sorry to say adds up to 224... ie 40mm more than you have ! you might be able to save 50mm by requesting a 25mm borders up and down instead. one of benefits of buying from a local aussie company that will make the order a week after you place it. so worth giving them a call to talk. other thing. this will place you screen pretty much at ceiling height. there are two things to consider here. one so close to the ceiling you will get reflections off the ceiling. you either accept that or you mask that out with darker matt ceiling / masking. it looks a pretty lounge room like setting so you may or may not be able to do that. 2nd you have a ceiling fan. you will need to mount your projector lower than ceiling height to miss the fan when projecting. perhaps on a shelf/book shelf at the back behind your seating ? is this possible ? or you will need to use your projector on extension pole. which isnt a bother you can with the peerless mounts which would use with a projector like this buy a pole to suit. but i dont know what you have back there and whether all this is suitable. 3rdly wiht the screen up towards the ceiling you will be forced to look up ? i hope this is something have considered and ok with. ultimately I would suggest you move your seating forward to get better resolving power and immersion with the screen. eg myself i am running a smaller 92" screen though viewing at 2.8m which gives THX spec for immersion over resolving of 1080p and hence some gains with uhd which can deliver some 3-3.5k. I dont know if this is an issue moving forward ? how big is the room ? best to sit at 2/3rd room death for audio and picture wise will likely find this works a treat. otherwise can you move the couch 1m forward to get to 3.5m at least from screen this is 36" THX will over resolve 1080p to give some benefit with uhd. lastly I see a huge big opening to the left of where screen will be.... have you got a way of blocking light from that ? it will be needed or will kill the picture on screen. a black velvet curtain with block out could sit on the inside of the room side of door way that you would close at viewing time and wouldnt cost a lot at all but be very necessary to improve versatility of the setup for day time viewing. Wowsers... thank you so much for the insights, al! I'd noticed the same thing about the additional screen dimensions, but was thinking I could have the screen just ever so slightly in front of the Catalysts and drop down to just over the top of them. Brings the screen closer to me (your point on immersion still being understood and appreciated!), and gives the maximum fill for the limited space. Will definitely reach out to screentechnics if they are able to "tweak" borders. Tick one box - will contact screentechnics for my screen! EDIT - Just noticed the screen has a matt white or a grey option? Not sure if one or the other would be better? I'd read about black screens but not seen grey before! As for the distance to resolve 4k/1080p, I can easily spot the difference between 1080p material and 4k from 3.5m on our 65" oled, so suspect at 4.5m I'll still be pretty happy with somewhere above 1080p. Completely understand what you're talking about with the room treatments. Certain room treatments are going to be possible, others will push beyond WAF boundaries, unfortunately. Can probably do some subtle masking considering the closeness to the ceiling. Ceiling fan can go, in fact, it's sort of in the way, and I hate it - it's ugly. Can't move the couches, unfortunately - WAF. Don't mind looking up at the screen. We have incliners, so a quick angle tilt of the head rest and we're comfy. I'll look into options for blocking the light from the left side. At night that's going to be the main problem for me as that's the only source of light coming in. At the end of the day, the room has got some challenges that I can fully appreciate. It's never going to be a perfect home cinema, but have had such a great audio side for so long I figure it's worth spending a bit to get the video up to somewhere respectable as well! Again, thank you so much for your help. Will get reading on the JVC x5900. Does it need a specific mount as well? Or is there one you would recommend? Edited May 27, 2018 by milka1503560482
betty boop Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 50 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: I'd noticed the same thing about the additional screen dimensions, but was thinking I could have the screen just ever so slightly in front of the Catalysts and drop down to just over the top of them. Brings the screen closer to me (your point on immersion still being understood and appreciated!), and gives the maximum fill for the limited space. Will definitely reach out to screentechnics if they are able to "tweak" borders. Tick one box - will contact screentechnics for my screen! EDIT - Just noticed the screen has a matt white or a grey option? Not sure if one or the other would be better? I'd read about black screens but not seen grey before! worth talking to them their sketch in the spec downloads pdf is pretty detailed but I wouldnt be counting on cutting it so fine, give yourself some lee way. I have my screen 600mm away from front wall. its somthing you will need to explore too as the motorised screen needs something structural to affix to up on the ceiling. I was lucky as 600mm in there is a beam behind the plaster I could attach flush too. and it dropped screen between my speakers as i wanted. I went with an extra long 600mm leader as wanted my screen dropping lower down... ie more immersion again surrounded by the speakers and less ceiling effects. and screen technics came through spot on with all dimensions quoted. ps I notice a bit of stuff on the front stage. what is it all, can any of it be re located ? ie equipment rack can it go back of room ? it will sort the issue of cable length for projector can put projector on a tall standing rack out back and everything equipment wise on rack below ? will give you more space up front. is it two subs up front ? can you have one up front one up back ? so all left with one sub mid centre up front and two mains either side ? where is the centre speaker ? 50 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: s for the distance to resolve 4k/1080p, I can easily spot the difference between 1080p material and 4k from 3.5m on our 65" oled, so suspect at 4.5m I'll still be pretty happy with somewhere above 1080p. what will find is with 1080p you are at best getting 1-1.5k and with 4k 2K+ and more to uhd than just the resolution why noticing the difference. its impossible to resolve 1080p from 4.5m as furtherest distance to fully resolve 1080p from a 65" screen is 2.57m but yes without doubt going the bigger screen will give you gains even if not fully resolving 4k so well worth doing 50 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: I'll look into options for blocking the light from the left side. At night that's going to be the main problem for me as that's the only source of light coming in. as mentioned a simple curtain on the inside of the room with block out on other side and which you draw shut will do it. 50 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: At the end of the day, the room has got some challenges that I can fully appreciate. It's never going to be a perfect home cinema, but have had such a great audio side for so long I figure it's worth spending a bit to get the video up to somewhere respectable as well! took me couple off years figuring out with a bit of help from friends. i had a door way like yours. on suggestion i got brother in law who is a builder to put a door in. was easier than I thought. had it done in a day. came back finished it the next. 50 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: Again, thank you so much for your help. Will get reading on the JVC x5900. Does it need a specific mount as well? Or is there one you would recommend? no worries, its the bang for buck best option, oztheatre or other melb retailers like cleff are pretty good with it. mount wise oztheatre sells the peerless pro mount or could get from the us via B&H, and is really THE only mount to consider dont even look at anything else for a serious projector like this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/525470-REG/Peerless_Industries_PRG_UNV_PRG_UNV_Precision_Gear_Projector.html 1
milkafromdtv Posted May 27, 2018 Author Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, al said: ps I notice a bit of stuff on the front stage. what is it all, can any of it be re located ? ie equipment rack can it go back of room ? it will sort the issue of cable length for projector can put projector on a tall standing rack out back and everything equipment wise on rack below ? will give you more space up front. is it two subs up front ? can you have one up front one up back ? 2 hours ago, al said: so all left with one sub mid centre up front and two mains either side ? Don't really have anywhere else in the room for the gear unfortunately. Only one sub up front (it's a Submersive HP+... no need for more than 1!), and as you can see from the reverse view, nothing can really be put there. Probably the only thing that could be done is moving the L/R to the corners of the room as you've suggested, keeping the centre on top of the tv unit and putting the sub alongside it. That drops the height level down to about 90cm for the audio gear... might be a very important 7-8cm gained, though. EDIT - although technically nothing stopping me scrapping the top shelf of the tv unit, consolidating items on bottom shelf, putting the centre on the "new" top shelf with a slight tilt adjustment and suddenly my audio gear is down to 78cm... 162cm for screen is a lot better than 132cm... hmm... With the L/R on either wall tilted in I'm getting a width of about 245cm between them for the screen... options are good to have, I guess! EDIT AGAIN - just realised that if I do all of that, room width becomes my limiting factor. But would probably be able to get a 110inch screen in there with fewer height concerns. 2 hours ago, al said: took me couple off years figuring out with a bit of help from friends. i had a door way like yours. on suggestion i got brother in law who is a builder to put a door in. was easier than I thought. had it done in a day. came back finished it the next. Had mentioned that idea, but once again... WAF... Even the curtain is gonna be borderline. 2 hours ago, al said: no worries, its the bang for buck best option, oztheatre or other melb retailers like cleff are pretty good with it. mount wise oztheatre sells the peerless pro mount or could get from the us via B&H, and is really THE only mount to consider dont even look at anything else for a serious projector like this Ahh... Clef! Good. Bought my Marantz from them. Good folks. And thanks for the tip on the mount. Looks like it would survive a nuke! Edited May 27, 2018 by milka1503560482 1
betty boop Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: Don't really have anywhere else in the room for the gear unfortunately. Only one sub up front (it's a Submersive HP+... no need for more than 1!), and as you can see from the reverse view, nothing can really be put there. Probably the only thing that could be done is moving the L/R to the corners of the room as you've suggested, keeping the centre on top of the tv unit and putting the sub alongside it. That drops the height level down to about 90cm for the audio gear... might be a very important 7-8cm gained, though. oh yeah... one HP+ would be enough hmm with that rear view...will HAVE to do something about those windows... will need block out, ideally pelmetted windows and then with double block out blinds. the little window is going to be troublesome.... @blybo used drop down block outs for windows like that and very effective. might be able to suggest whats best. good if can re arrange that front end. move speakers to side and get centre where needs to be on top of TV unit and that 7-8 cm gained will be a god send as you are IN ! with a chance I reckon and might not need to even ask screen technics to do anything as you were 40mm/4cm too much 70-80mm gained will leave you some breathing room might even be able to extend the black leader up top to allow a bit more drop from the ceiling. definitely do re arrange and then check carefully what have to work with before going to screen technics . 17 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: Had mentioned that idea, but once again... WAF... Even the curtain is gonna be borderline. hmmm wihtout doing something there it will be a killer for watching at day time even during summer in evenings until after dark. can you consider some concertina doors on the inside lounge room side that you slide across ? anyways will have to do something there or would very much limit use. 19 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: Ahh... Clef! Good. Bought my Marantz from them. Good folks. ~ yeah pretty good folks, i got my screen technics through them, they provided me a contact at screen technics so could make sure I got what I wanted. they might be conducive to doing a deal on both screen and projector and get you some help in getting all mounted hooked up and going
milkafromdtv Posted May 27, 2018 Author Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, al said: anyways will have to do something there or would very much limit use. Just chatting with the source of WAF, suspect I'm gonna need other options or just live with the ambient light. There's a study adjacent to this room that has the same blinds, so changing them isn't an option. Some light absorbent fabric lining the inside of the window casings will cut down on the worst of the light bleed, and I will get a slimline blind for the smaller window (been meaning to do that anyway). The room gets pretty dark during the day with both the both the shade blind and the roller blind both down on each window. The roller blind goes over the window edges, thankfully! On bright days if ambient light is too strong I can always just go to the other room and watch on the OLED - first world problems here! Given the ambient light, is the grey option from screen technics a better idea? Thanks again for all of your very generously shared wisdom on this! Edited May 27, 2018 by milka1503560482
Quark Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 Go to Clark Rubber or similar and get them to cut some foam rubber to fit in your windows when using projector - problem solved. 2
wooferocau Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 8 hours ago, al said: milka the 5-7k budget would easily do a jvc x5900 and screen technics premium electricinema 100" . JVC X5900 IMO is unbeatable for its price and performance...Cant go wrong! 1
betty boop Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, milka1503560482 said: Given the ambient light, is the grey option from screen technics a better idea? I would not go grey as you basically give up ever being able to do white. are those blinds transulsecnet or block out ? the photos show as translucent which will do nothing as far as block out goes. if block out bleed around edges is easily dealt with note with modern projectors like the jvc 5900 a bit of ambient light in the room is not really a bother if happy to accept some compromise during the day etc. I have heaps of windows around my setup and at times we will leave the back end open during the day watching cricket etc. doesnt impact that much for that sort of thing. there is no direct light on the screen mind you but apart form a *bit* of wash out... quite good enough for this kind of thing.... we had people over watching euro vision... we left a couple of table lamps running in the room so not a complete darkness situation was quite fine really 1 hour ago, Quark said: Go to Clark Rubber or similar and get them to cut some foam rubber to fit in your windows when using projector - problem solved. indeed this is something quark did for instant and 100% block out. very effective and only used when viewing.... and just keep them discretely away to the side behind the couch or something 1
betty boop Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 If removing the fan, could look at replacing in the same location with the projector.... atleast wont have to run power again and with cables run there already should be easy to run hdmi cable upto. obviously something structural there too and if can hang a fan off it projectors wouldn't be a bother. just want to check on the jvc site with their calculator can fit in screen size you want with the throw distance will have from there
milkafromdtv Posted May 27, 2018 Author Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, al said: are those blinds transulsecnet or block out ? the photos show as translucent which will do nothing as far as block out goes. if block out bleed around edges is easily dealt wit There's 2 blinds on each window. A translucent and a block out. We do get a fair bit of bleed around the edges.
cableguy Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 Don't do it. Get a 60" 4k TV and be done with it. Projectors are a pain in the arse
Quark Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, cableguy said: Don't do it. Get a 60" 4k TV and be done with it. Projectors are a pain in the arse But they're a sensational, immersive and addictive PITA!
cableguy Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 But they're a sensational, immersive and addictive PITA!Well yes, but I went through 3 of them with the last being the infocus 5700 which was very nice. LCDS had barn door with 5m viewing. DLPS need to spend the money to get the sharpness of colour and contrast but only really comes to life in pitch black room with Matt black walls. Not very favourable for a room shared with daily living.
Quark Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 49 minutes ago, cableguy said: 1 hour ago, Quark said: But they're a sensational, immersive and addictive PITA! Well yes, but I went through 3 of them with the last being the infocus 5700 which was very nice. LCDS had barn door with 5m viewing. DLPS need to spend the money to get the sharpness of colour and contrast but only really comes to life in pitch black room with Matt black walls. Not very favourable for a room shared with daily living. The improved lumens and contrast of newer models mean you can still get a good outcome in a less than ideal room, but agree a fully light controlled and dark room gives the best outcome.
wooferocau Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 5 hours ago, cableguy said: Don't do it. Get a 60" 4k TV and be done with it. Projectors are a pain in the arse 60"....PHHHHHH!! Like looking at a "Postage Stamp" 140" plus is where its at.... 1
milkafromdtv Posted May 29, 2018 Author Posted May 29, 2018 On 28/05/2018 at 4:54 PM, cableguy said: Don't do it. Get a 60" 4k TV and be done with it. Projectors are a pain in the arse Haha... already got a 65" oled in the other room. Not big enough... I briefly considering buying 4 x 55" oleds back around Christmas when they dropped to $1600 each and then buying a 4k video wall controller... 110" 16k screen... 1
Mikeyday Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 46 minutes ago, milka1503560482 said: Haha... already got a 65" oled in the other room. Not big enough... I briefly considering buying 4 x 55" oleds back around Christmas when they dropped to $1600 each and then buying a 4k video wall controller... 110" 16k screen... Sounds like a good idea in theory however there are the borders that would run through the picture at the moment, also the unnecessary up-scaling to what I think you will find is actually 8k (or a little less) I think. There is just something about having a projector, especially with an AT screen that just "feels" good.
hopefullguy Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) hmm really cableguy not a good user history for a blanket statement that pjs are rubbish. your best pj was a 2003 dlp infocus? barn door problems at 5m from a lcd model/decade? things have changed in 15 years. Edited May 30, 2018 by hopefullguy 1
Johnny_Boy Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 On 28/05/2018 at 2:54 PM, cableguy said: Don't do it. Get a 60" 4k TV and be done with it. Projectors are a pain in the arse i have a duel use room (white walls, white roof and non-ideal seating locations) my 110 projector is much better than the 75 tv i have in the same room. Much more immersive and provides lots of enjoyment. Of course i would like to have wall treatments etc to make darker, but at night its pretty good. Much better than the tv. Plus 75 is small fry these days. a 60 would not cut it for movies. As said in the other posts, the newer projectors are light canons and work remarkably well in non-ideal setups. Plus with all the lens shift/zoom functions, you don't even need to have the projector itself in the ideal location! 2
betty boop Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 On 28/05/2018 at 7:28 PM, cableguy said: On 28/05/2018 at 6:51 PM, Quark said: But they're a sensational, immersive and addictive PITA! Well yes, but I went through 3 of them with the last being the infocus 5700 which was very nice. LCDS had barn door with 5m viewing. DLPS need to spend the money to get the sharpness of colour and contrast but only really comes to life in pitch black room with Matt black walls. Not very favourable for a room shared with daily living. @cableguy projectors have indeed come a long way ! below is lucy on blu-ray from my main viewing position 2.8m away, and this is walking right up at screen things like "barn door" or is that screen door are a thing of the past.... no such thing to worry about now days... 1
milkafromdtv Posted November 13, 2018 Author Posted November 13, 2018 The best laid plans... Had a long road to getting the projector and screen done that didn't quite pan out how I'd planned due to a bit of a financial squeeze, and a number of large WAF issues. I can still dream of JVC beauties, but as a first step in my projector journey I've ended up with: Benq TH671ST Grandview IP Smart-Screen 102" motorised screen Peerless PRG-UNV mount in white The below is during the day with the blinds open, so not too shabby. Lots of "less than ideals" in this setup, which probably means that the total spend of $2750 is more appropriate anyway. Have to say that I'm pretty astounded with what you can get for the price though. Today's bargain basement projector's are incredible. 5
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