Gyprock Soundchek on a brick wall - would it make a difference?

[PauliD]

Hello!

 

I have recently moved into a new house that has a shared wall. I have no idea if it's double brick or single. Google suggest that it's most likely single brick like the other internal walls even if the outside is double with a cavity. My new neighbours are a nice older couple and I can't gauge noise transference as we don't hear much besides the occasional wooden chair rubbing on wood floors and some music once. But no tv or cooking or talking. I don't want bother them but I also what to enjoy my gear when I want to. So I have been looking at ways to increase the sound proofing of that wall with out costing a crazy amount. I found this.

 

http://www.gyprock.com.au/Pages/Products/Plasterboard/Soundchek.aspx

 

Has anyone had experience with this? Does it work? If so, by a big enough degree that it was worth the money? I would be gluing it to the brick wall as there isn't enough room to add a frame. The site does say you can use it that way, but it's a marketing site, of course they make it sound awesome (no pun intended), but whats it like in the real world.

 

They haven't complained...yet, but I'd like the piece of mind that I've done my best to not bother them.

 

Any advice or alternatives would be appreciated.

 

Cheers 

[Guest thathifiguy]

I wish my neighbours were as respectful as you.

[PauliD]

ha it would be cheaper not to care, but I'd just spend the money on bigger speakers making the 'could ya turn it down' conversation even more likely

[davewantsmoore]

2 hours ago, PauliD said:

I don't want bother them

Ask them.

 

Turn the tunes up, and then go and knock on their door.   Ask them if they can hear the music?  Is it a problem?  Ask if you can go inside so you can hear for yourself how much the sound leaks through.

 

I';d think this would give you both peace of mind.

 

2 hours ago, PauliD said:

Does it work?

 

Sticking anything of reasonable mass tightly to the wall will help ... but will it help enough?  Is it even needed?    Don't know.

[davewantsmoore]

33 minutes ago, PauliD said:

ha it would be cheaper not to care, but I'd just spend the money on bigger speakers making the 'could ya turn it down' conversation even more likely

Bigger speakers are only louder if the volume dial tells them to be   

[PauliD]

@davewantsmoore you're right I should just go ask and see. I guess I don't want to open a can of worms, but yep the only way to know for sure.

If there is drama the addition of the soundchek could be the remedy.

Edited July 18, 2018 by PauliD

[BATMAQN]

They’re probably a bit deaf anyway I’m forever asking my neighbor he reckons he’s deaf as but I still ask out of courtesy I think they’d prefer you ask then not at all.

[davewantsmoore]

41 minutes ago, PauliD said:

@davewantsmoore you're right I should just go ask and see. 

It's hard to say without knowing the people .... but I'd expect that if they know that you actually care, that they will be happier for you to play the music at a volume that they can hear --- as long as they know they if they want they can ask you to turn it down (and you won't throw a television at them).

 

... and if you are lucky enough to get a listen to your tunes from inside their house.... you can make your own assessment about "whether they're being reasonable" .... which will give you some more confidence to do your thing.

[44maloo]

I use a double layer of this in my house and it’s worth it , pain in ..... to lift but worth the effort.

 

 

 

joe.

[betty boop]

dont know why not so well known in these parts,

 

but for adjoining walls between two daughters bedrooms I used acoustiblok

 

https://www.acoustiblok.com/acoustiblok-product-lines/acoustiblok-soundproofing-material/

 

its an extremely heavy sheet, 4.89kg per m2 ! 

 

typical installation is as per below,

 

 

as they describe in their home theatre case example,

 

https://www.acoustiblok.com/portfolio-items/home-theater-noise/?portfolioCats=431

 

"Blok16 is installed directly to the framing of your space behind the drywall. It gets installed on all the walls, ceiling, and in some cases the floor. It becomes an airtight membrane of extreme mass and flexibility. Think of it as a sound-deadening curtain behind the drywall of your home. It damps the walls, ceiling, and floor by lowering the natural resonance of the structure. Acoustical energy intersects Blok16 material and in turn, it excites the material by vibrating it internally. Since the material is a visco-elastic polymer, it dissipates the acoustical energy efficiently within its own mass and reduces the sound transmission to the opposite side of the wall, ceiling, or floor assembly. Acoustiblok (Blok16) in a standard gypsum wall assembly will reach an STC of 53! This is a higher STC than 12” of cast concrete (STC 51). "

 

It is quite heavy and does take 2 people to install. but easily done with a staple gun over insulated frame and then adding 1-2 layers of soundcheck over. I can attest to their claims of how effective it is. 

[ThirdDrawerDown]

There are several threads here that deal with Green Glue. You'll probably find it helpful to look through those too. For example the difference between types of plasterboard might not be as great as plasterboard applications that use green glue, compared to applications that don't.

 

[PauliD]

Thanks @44maloo, and @:) al I'll look into Blok16 but not sure how I'd install it with straight on to a brick wall. I'll have to find a stockist and ask what they recommend.

 

@ThirdDrawerDown thanks for the pointer on 'green glue'. I search the forum for that. I find the search either gives me nothing or a zillion results on here. Search is only as good as your search term

 

Cheers

[betty boop]

9 minutes ago, PauliD said:

Thanks @44maloo, and @:) al I'll look into Blok16 but not sure how I'd install it with straight on to a brick wall. I'll have to find a stockist and ask what they recommend.

thats what I did, went straight to source and they were extremely helpful, sending out a "kit" of all I needed to get job done, wiht stockist thats easy you just buy direct, can reference their website below for contact details, 

 

www.acoustiblok.com.au

 

Suspect there are no shortcuts with this, I know there wasnt with what I intended. I thought could just whack something on existing wall and plaster over or something. but consider it a system, Keep in mind while have the deadening sheets like acoustiblok it doesnt replace the air gap characteristic that sound insulation eg sound screen provides,

 

https://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/home-insulation/walls/soundscreen

 

and the acousti block in my case needed the sound insulation bat inside between the rooms as well and works together with the deadening sheet. but it a very different application to yours and am sure they can outline what need to do.

 

[br0d0]

1 hour ago, al said:

thats what I did, went straight to source and they were extremely helpful, sending out a "kit" of all I needed to get job done, wiht stockist thats easy you just buy direct, can reference their website below for contact details, 

 

www.acoustiblok.com.au

 

Suspect there are no shortcuts with this, I know there wasnt with what I intended. I thought could just whack something on existing wall and plaster over or something. but consider it a system, Keep in mind while have the deadening sheets like acoustiblok it doesnt replace the air gap characteristic that sound insulation eg sound screen provides,

 

https://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/home-insulation/walls/soundscreen

 

and the acousti block in my case needed the sound insulation bat inside between the rooms as well and works together with the deadening sheet. but it a very different application to yours and am sure they can outline what need to do.

 

I've seen people add layers of plywood behind the outer layer of gyprock in a similar application to this in order to add mass. Does that sound correct? I'd imagine this is a bit easier to work with for later alterations that require holes in the wall?

[betty boop]

2 minutes ago, br0d0 said:

I've seen people add layers of plywood behind the outer layer of gyprock in a similar application to this in order to add mass. Does that sound correct? I'd imagine this is a bit easier to work with for later alterations that require holes in the wall?

the plywood probably acts as a barrier. the acoustiblok is a little different being visco-elastic it vibrates I believe and dissipates. partly reason it needs the insulation and air to work. the benefit and reason I went the acoustiblok is it saved us going double sheet of plaster. not needing us to alter walls severely dimensionally as the sheet of acousti block and soundcheck is dimensionally not to much ways off to original plaster sheet.

 

one other thing to be carefull off I think is what ethan winer talks about where you can start wiht a paper cube and you have no reflections as the sound permeates through. or you can bulk up the room so a concrete bunker but then will have massive reflections ! 

 

something like the acousti blok and insulation is good in that it takes the sound and dissipates rather than just reflect ... probably creating less problems than say just bulking up the walls with heavy sheets ? 

[br0d0]

That's something I'm beginning to learn. I get the impression that a bunker requires more bass trapping as the paper cube let's the bass out while the bunker doesn't. Something like that?

[almikel]

23 hours ago, br0d0 said:

That's something I'm beginning to learn. I get the impression that a bunker requires more bass trapping as the paper cube let's the bass out while the bunker doesn't. Something like that?

exactly - but you already have rigid walls - so a layer of soundcheck stuck to the brick/block with greenglue could achieve additional isolation and some low frequency absorption.

But there may be other paths for the sound to travel, like out your windows and in theirs - this is called "Flanking Noise".

Additional sound proofing of the common wall, when it already isolates well, may not achieve much if there are flanking paths.

 

@davewantsmoore's advice is on the money - go talk to your neighbours.

 

edit: lots of good information here: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing101/

 

Mike

Edited July 20, 2018 by almikel
added a link

[betty boop]

23 hours ago, br0d0 said:

That's something I'm beginning to learn. I get the impression that a bunker requires more bass trapping as the paper cube let's the bass out while the bunker doesn't. Something like that?

indeed more head towards a bunker more can create quite a disaster, problem on the hands. Ive come across a few garage conversions where people pop plaster on brick walls and then have to treat issues. conventional brick veneer otherwise tends to have the brick walls but the plaster walls and framing and insulation within which is a lot better to dissipate rather than reflect. wooden floors vs concrete slab is also similar. 

 

bass trapping is also an impossible task. to treat bass going down in frequencies the bass traps have to be HUGE. completely impractical for most domestic settings. 

 

have a bit of a read on ethan winers stuff he had some excellent articles on the subject. he does sell traps.... but does put in context....

[davewantsmoore]

People get quickly confused between what's needed to prevent sound going through a wall, vs controlling sound in the room (eg. bass traps).

[Al.M]

Single Soundcheck layer is about equal to double layers of 13mm standard gyprock so see which is more economical and practical to install. Depending how old the building is, what dividing wall was specified and built and the actual quality (i.e did the brickies fill in all the motar gaps thoroughly or leave many open) a sheet of Soundcheck may help further after you have gone over to gauge any noise in the first place. Try to notice at the neighbours what noise sensitive uses they have such as close bedrooms against the wall or living room, kitchen or bathroom that are less noise sensitive.

 

Another yardstick is to go outside your house doors closed at an equal distance when playing music and gauge how loud it is. If it’s quite audible then it will likely be affecting the neighbour. Note that different CDs have different loudness levels so don’t just go by a set amp volume position. A sound meter or accurate mob app can help.

 

Also, check that there are not other potential sound transmission paths other than the wall, such as close windows, and ceiling (have a look inside roof attic to see if there is big enough overlapping fire wall). Otherwise you may be focusing on the wrong sound transmission path. If there are gaps in the adjoining firewall up around tiles, may also be worth looking at installing Soundcheck on the ceiling if the rafters will take the extra weight and/or having at least R4.1 or more ceiling insulation. Many older houses have nothing or R2.5 insulation. 

 

For windows close to the neighbour consider installing proper seals and 6.38mm laminated glass or greater if the window frame will take it or alternatively a retro fitted form of double glazing such as a Perspex sliding sheet on the inside of the window to form a 70-100mm air gap. See web info for best air gap suggestions.

 

Another consideration is to manage when you play loud music and have an understanding of your State’s noise regulations. Most noise regulations should say the noise is required to be quieter by say 10dB(A) after 10pm, which is subjectively about two times less loudness. To give an idea the neighbour is entitled to quiet of around 35-40dB(A) in the bedroom and 35-45dB in the lounge room. Keep in mind that a late night quiet street house bedroom noise level of around 20-25dB(A) is common and an increase of 5-10dB(A) is audible and can keep people awake. The A-weighted dB measurement is what humans hear but it doesn’t indicate low bass frequencies very well so you need to be mindful about low frequency sound transmitting through wall structures and around corners so try to avoid really bass heavy music in the evenings and night.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Al.M

[PauliD]

Thanks @Al.M that helps a lot.

[PauliD]

@davewantsmoore  well I'll be damned! I asked them and their response was 'what noise'...sweeeeeet.

They actually looked a little puzzled when I asked. Great, I did say if its ever a problem just let me know.

The only thing they mentioned was floor noise can travel as we do share floorboard beams.

 

Any way if it every becomes a problem I have a plan of attack. 

 

Thanks everyone for your responses!

 

Cheers

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by PauliD