2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

[betty boop]

2019-2020 seems to be an interesting year with projectors coming our way. nothing concrete as yet but I am getting a bit of here say/ scuttle butt what will be 3rd hand info 

 

in any case with IFA in germany in 2 weeks and Cedia in september coming up what do we have so far ?

 

courtesy of arrowav,

 

on EPSON,

 

Quote

This from EPSON regarding IFA and CEDIA: 

"One more highlight on the booth is a demonstration of the newest developments in Epson's 3LCD-projection technology."

So it looks like there's something new from the EPSON camp... 

 

JVC 

 

Arrowav has also shared an image of a new JVC vs the current Z1 beast

 

 

and jvc has a teaser video of it saying its coming cedia 2018

 

some conjecture it will have the beautiful all glass monester lens fo the Z1... whatever this new beast is  some conjecture it is the 8k eshift version used on simulation side JVC does. some will remember JVC developed this with NHK engineers for displaying 8k with their broadcasts. so possible its a model above the z1 in sony 5000es territory. or could it also be an in-between model to bridge the huge chasm that exists between the 9900 and z1 consumer projectors ? 

 

conflicting info on the current range lower rung JVC

 

courtesy of ozHDHT

Quote

I've just had a round of info flow through this morning from my local JVC contacts. What I'm hearing is as expected, native 4K and still lamp based for the 4 & 5 series. However the 6 series series will feature e-shift 8K and could be laser driven, wasn't a certainty. 

 

Oz also suggests there wont be a Z2 or anything and thats been scrapped. there is general all around concern on drop in native contrast with any changes with new JVCs time will tell I guess when if we have something more concrete

SONY

also from ozHDHT on sony,

Quote

Spoke to my contact at Sony today to see if I could add to what I've learned from JVC about what will be coming to IFA. Sony will have a model VW870 as a next step from the VW760. Word is better lens and also some lens options plus dual laser and finally a dynamic iris (could be dimming I think even). It's a pretty big jump towards RS4500 cost territory (exact price point in fact), not a true $20-$25K VW1100 price point replacement. Will be very interesting to see how it compares to the 4500.

 

which would be great news ! its about time they rolled back out that gorgeous ARC-F lens last used on the 1000/1100ES. anyways lets see it could be in the bridge between the 760es and jvc Z1 as has been stated.

 

anyways thats all I can find around the traps, anyone with anything else including on the other brands eg benq post it here,

 

I'm sitting pretty and very happy with what I have but I do tend to refresh every 3 years or so ... so never know if some tasty morsel comes along  

 

[wooferocau]

 

From Nigel  ...ARROW-AV 

 

 

 

New SONY and JVC Projectors | IFA & CEDIA – FURTHER UPDATE

 

Here’s the latest up to date information with respect to new projectors to be launched at IFA and CEDIA:

 

SONY:

• SONY 870ES: New 4K laser projector to sit above the 760ES. RRP £35,000.

 

DUAL Laser with (finally) a proper dynamic iris and significantly higher contrast performance.  

 

JVC:

• New native 4K lamp-based projector range to replace existing eShift lamp-based projector range which is to be discontinued; wherein, the new flagship X9900/RS640 replacement will be eShift 8K.

 

There is a possibility, but yet to be confirmed, an eShift lamp-based projector might be retained at a lower new entry level price point.

 

• HDR10+ support to be added to existing JVC Z1

 

Please kindly note that this is the indicative information so is yet to be definitively confirmed. I will provide the full details live from IFA

 

 

Again From Nigel ..........on the NEW mystery projector ( From JVC Teaser Video) Chassis size..

 

I am thinking it's actually significantly smaller as compared with the JVC RS4500/Z1 and relates to the new chassis and housing with respect to the native 4K lamp-based projector range that will be replacing the existing 4,5,6 / X5, X7, X9 series eShift projectors range; which has been designed to compliment the design of the JVC RS4500/Z1...

[TP1]

 

Hopefully the pricing  of the new PJ's will be  within reach of those that aspire to owning them.  I cant imagine JVC pricing  their bulb based native 4K panel projectors to be uncompetitive  against Sony's offerings , so it will be very interesting indeed.

 

 

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Tasso said:

 

Hopefully the pricing  of the new PJ's will be  within reach of those that aspire to owning them.  I cant imagine JVC pricing  their bulb based native 4K panel projectors to be uncompetitive  against Sony's offerings , so it will be very interesting indeed.

 

 

that is a concern indeed, I hope they dont blow pricing out the park ! though i suspect a miracle if they manage to keep within current pricing. 

 

the other concern people have is impact on contrast which is a big consideration for many buying into jvc, 

 

with sony i am a bit suprised with the pricing of the 870es ...35k GBP ? really ? though the 5000es does retail at 50k GBP though perhaps he is right. that just seems way way off from where the 1000ES/1100ES retailed at which was more like 17k GBP or locally here in the $35k mark but who knows could be some vagaries of UK pricing ?

 

I also look forward to what epson brings to replace their 9300 bulb and 11500 laser models that have a good following just needs a full bandwidth chip. similarly benq has a great following there were just a few things a bit scratchy in their line up so hopefully they are coming up with some refreshes too.

 

All hopefully making for some good options for people looking to buy PJs in 2019  

 

 

[TP1]

I think JVC RRP pricing  for 4K panels won’t be too far off current RRP , but they won’t be discounting  to the same extent as they  are at the moment.  That way they can keep up demand  for new PJ’s without burning existing owners. 

 

As far a Sony goes, I can’t quite fathom the  pricing for their premium projectors but since they have been able to sustain strong demand,  they seem to know the market.  The actual  760ES street prices in Australia are close to the best in the world when I last checked and hopefully the 870ES will have the same advantage for Australian buyers. However, knowing Sony , introducing a high output , dual laser pj with premium lens  ( and sophisticated video processing options) will make them want to price it higher than the Z1.

 

its a long way off yet and I wouldn’t presume to prejudge  how the new Sony will look.  But  dual laser could help them achieve better BT 2020 coverage without light loss ,  which would make it pretty versatile in terms of installation options 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Tasso

[wooferocau]

2 hours ago, al said:

 

 

with sony i am a bit suprised with the pricing of the 870es ...35k GBP ? really ? though the 5000es does retail at 50k GBP though perhaps he is right. that just seems way way off from where the 1000ES/1100ES retailed at which was more like 17k GBP or locally here in the $35k mark but who knows could be some vagaries of UK pricing ?

 

 

 

 

The 870ES is aimed "Directly" at the JVC Z1, ..... Pricing in the UK for the Z1 is also 35k GBP ...hence the Sony pricing.

[betty boop]

2 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

The 870ES is aimed "Directly" at the JVC Z1, ..... Pricing in the UK for the Z1 is also 35k GBP ...hence the Sony pricing.

ah I see... that makes sense. we must be getting the z1 here at an awesome bargain then at $35-39k AUD

 

but then I think the pricing on rest of JVCs are also pretty sharp here

[wooferocau]

6 minutes ago, al said:

ah I see... that makes sense. we must be getting the z1 here at an awesome bargain then at $35-39k AUD

 

but then I think the pricing on rest of JVCs are also pretty sharp here

Yes, JVC pricing here in AUS is VERY good.

 

 

 

 

[swervyn]

5 hours ago, wooferocau said:

 

SONY:

• SONY 870ES: New 4K laser projector to sit above the 760ES. RRP £35,000.

 

 

 

My goodness, how do you fit $60K AUD worth of electronics and optics into something the size of a couple of shoeboxes? 

[TP1]

 

I guess this will also mean an end  to the  Z1 vs 760ES comparisons  

[wooferocau]

8 minutes ago, swervyn said:

My goodness, how do you fit $60K AUD worth of electronics and optics into something the size of a couple of shoeboxes? 

LARGE shoeboxes.. 

[TP1]

7 minutes ago, swervyn said:

My goodness, how do you fit $60K AUD worth of electronics and optics into something the size of a couple of shoeboxes? 

I don't think   Sony will follow the extreme UK pricing here.   It might be more expensive but I doubt if it will be in a different price class. 

[betty boop]

28 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

LARGE shoeboxes.. 

probably come on a pallet  

[betty boop]

30 minutes ago, Tasso said:

 

I guess this will also mean an end  to the  Z1 vs 760ES comparisons  

suspect will then turn into

 

mythical JVC beast Z2? vs 870Es

 

.... Round 2 *Ding* *Ding* off we go again  

[wooferocau]

3 minutes ago, al said:

probably come on a pallet  

Z1 Arrival and packing....

 

[betty boop]

6 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

Z1 Arrival and packing....

 

oh yeah !! would expect the sony if any similar will be same or larger even  !  who knows ! 

[TP1]

Just now, al said:

suspect will then turn into

 

mythical JVC beast Z2? vs 870Es

 

.... Round 2 *Ding* *Ding* off we go again  

 

 It will be Z1 vs 870ES.    But  lets see if Kris Deering will have  a shot at owners  of JVC native 4k  PJ's ( at $20k cheaper than 870ES)   for being pleased  with them when the 870ES will have a better lens.     Sorry about that -  but  it does illustrate the silliness of some forum debates.

[Michael391]

Epsons offering so far.......which might interest a few of us who can't afford the sony or jvc offerings.

 

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/21/07/2018/epson-eh-tw9400-et-eh-tw9400w-rumeurs-ifa-2018/

[betty boop]

8 minutes ago, Michael391 said:

Epsons offering so far.......which might interest a few of us who can't afford the sony or jvc offerings.

 

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/21/07/2018/epson-eh-tw9400-et-eh-tw9400w-rumeurs-ifa-2018/

 

good stuff ! 

 

popping the google translated page below,

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.passionhomecinema.fr%2Fblog%2Findex.php%2F21%2F07%2F2018%2Fepson-eh-tw9400-et-eh-tw9400w-rumeurs-ifa-2018%2F&edit-text=&act=url

[oztheatre]

JVC will still be lamp based in the X series (or whatever they decide to call them) models for 2019 with the flagship 9 series being something special probably native 4K and new lens. All I'm told is 'something very special is coming for the 9 series'... Japan don't do chinese whispers.. it's a chinese thing

 

 

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, oztheatre said:

JVC will still be lamp based in the X series (or whatever they decide to call them) models for 2019 with the flagship 9 series being something special probably native 4K and new lens. All I'm told is 'something very special is coming for the 9 series'... Japan don't do chinese whispers.. it's a chinese thing

to be perfectly honest I dont really mind they leave them as lamp, they can keep their lasers till pricing on them come down to sanity

 

I also am glad to hear they are doing something special with the 9 series. they really need it. just this hand picked business and jacking their output up a teeny bit more for a bit more lumens doesnt really cut it to make it a flagship  be interesting to see what comes ....  looking forward to the japanese whispers   

[Javs]

12 hours ago, al said:

to be perfectly honest I dont really mind they leave them as lamp, they can keep their lasers till pricing on them come down to sanity

 

I also am glad to hear they are doing something special with the 9 series. they really need it. just this hand picked business and jacking their output up a teeny bit more for a bit more lumens doesnt really cut it to make it a flagship  be interesting to see what comes ....  looking forward to the japanese whispers   

Likely just 8k eshift. which IMO is not very useful at all if its going to be lamp based. In real practice thats not going to manifest into a visual improvement worth much at all unless your nose is literally on the screen, contrast can be seen from miles away.

 

I would prefer a laser, and I would pay a premium for it. The lamp based low contrast panels in the 4K units are going to be handicapped by NOT having a laser with excellent dynamic dimming that can fully shut off if that is the case. Unless they have considerably cracked the contrast issue of 4k panels low contrast yields which I highly doubt!. They doubled the pixel densities on the panel but they were not quite able to reduce the interpixel gaps by the same magin, which is what reduced the contrast. I would have thought it would have been better to enlarge the chip size and keep considerably better contrast when goin to a UHD panel. JVC have the smaller UHD panels out there! They shot themselves in the foot IMO.

 

So you might have a X7 series version still eshift 5 with 160k:1 contrast, then a native 4k X9 series but still lamp based and only 40k:1 contrast with eshift 8k (10k:1 wide open iris).... that presents a conundrum! Sony has contrast specs more usefual than that right now, they are near 20k wide open iris on some of the range.

 

One of the prime things that makes the Z1 an exceptional choice is its laser dimming system, if it did not have that, you would take away one of the prime reasons for owning it. Its native contrast without dimming is just far too low to be competitive and worth it. It doesnt matter how sharp its lens is.

[betty boop]

yep non interest in 8k even if those pixel peepers will no doubt I am sure once its released be telling us why we should have in the in our setups !  

 

am happy to sit out the lasers as long as priced insanely whether any benefit with dimming or not since  happy with lamp as it is, yep have my concerns re contrast as well

 

one thing of interest is that according to arrowav the sony 870es for instance will have  dynamic iris (unlike the 760es) to use with its dimming - just as apparently the JVC Z1 does. good to see the makers competing such. can only be a good thing for end users 

 

anyways be interesting what comes ! 

 

ps tasso whether like it or not arrowav has posted that he has pre order the sony 870 and will be comparing with both current jvc and sony options,

 

 courtesy ArrowAv re sony 870es,

Quote

 Well, I've already pre-ordered it and I will be carrying out an impartial comprehensive in-depth objective scientific evaluation and review of it, which will include comprehensive direct comparisions versus both the SONY 760/885ES and JVC RS4500/Z1, with some blind testing, and the full array of measurements etc. So let's see how it performs comparatively, eh? 

 

[TP1]

8 hours ago, al said:

 

 

ps tasso whether like it or not arrowav has posted that he has pre order the sony 870 and will be comparing with both current jvc and sony options,

 

 courtesy ArrowAv re sony 870es,

 

 

It 'll be interesting to see what the new PJ can do.     I know dynamic iris is a big deal for a lot of people, but I  am not a fan  since I could see it  cutting in and out. However,  I thought JVC contrast was very good anyway and didnt need it.  I can see the benefit for manual iris adjustment  however and it is something I would use if I had the facility.     I know I am not in the majority with that view!

[TP1]

Just a word on resolution guys.   While there is clearly  a limit to how good an image can look relative to the screen size and viewing distance,   The charts we see published on the subject are at best a rough guide only, particularly for a discerning bunch of videophiles.  

 

In terms of screen sizes and seating distance, my previous setup was a 110" 16x9 screen  with a seating distance of around 4.3M.  The cinemascope movies were smaller still with black bars and the extra resolution from  native 4K panels was  noticeable  ( with 1080p material as well although the difference here isn't massive in overall terms) .   But the real differences come with genuine 4k discs using 4K intermediates ( and 4K mastered TV shows). There is a world of difference in projected resolution  between the 4K masters vs upscaled 2K  projected through 4k panels.  In fact I dont think the  resolution of the upscaled disc is materially better than the bluray ( upscaled to 4k by the projector) although it does have HDR and a broader colour gamut.  

 

Zoomed in to my current 140" cinemascope screen,  the "true 4K" resolution never fails to impress,  but the talk of 8K  has got me thinking about the  possibilities again. Since there is unlikely to be a decent range of commercially available 8K material  for some years to come,  there is plenty of time to figure that out.  In the meantime, the new range of JVC projectors should be very well received  as more "genuine" 4k material becomes available.  .

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Tasso