TP1 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 21 hours ago, Spizz said: JVC USA pricing for the NX9 is $17,999 USD. USA preordering price for the RS3000/NX9 is substantially cheaper. That was my point. In the USA it is being priced at $7k below the 760ES - they are positioning themselves in each market. My original prediction of sub-$20k for the NX9 is still in the running I think. And it leaves room for a new laser model in the line up.
wooferocau Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, Tasso said: My original prediction of sub-$20k for the NX9 is still in the running I think. In Aus ? NOT a chance in hell.. 1
wooferocau Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 25 minutes ago, Tasso said: That was my point. In the USA it is being priced at $7k below the 760ES - they are positioning themselves in each market. My original prediction of sub-$20k for the NX9 is still in the running I think. And it leaves room for a new laser model in the line up. JVC will most likely introduce a laser variant of the NX9 early next year, BUT dont expect anything this side of $35K!
Davo1972 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, Tasso said: That was my point. In the USA it is being priced at $7k below the 760ES - they are positioning themselves in each market. My original prediction of sub-$20k for the NX9 is still in the running I think. And it leaves room for a new laser model in the line up. Sub $20K Aus for the NX9 would be awesome, and a killer price for a very hi-spec native 4K projector from JVC (despite the bulb illumination), but I just can't see it happening. A laser illuminated JVC projector at $25K would be, well... wow! If the NX9 is priced sub $20K I will so, so regret ordering another amp when I could have ordered an NX9... My order for an Elektra Reference HD 300 (in addition to my 7 channel amp to update my system to Atmos 5.1.4) arrived at my dealer today, five days after I ordered it - arriving in probably record time from Arthur! I was so surprised it arrived so quickly I ordered an Elektra Theatre HD2 7 channel amp to replace my 15 year old Elektra Theatre 7 channel amp (which I bought back in October 2003)! Yes boys and girls, I probably bought one of Arthur's original 7 channel amps back in the day, and have not regretted one second of ownership. The old girl has been a rock solid part of my system and I will miss her, but now someone else can experience her immense power. What else can I say apart from support Aussie manufacturers! 2
betty boop Posted October 18, 2018 Author Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Davo1972 said: Sub $20K Aus for the NX9 would be awesome, and a killer price for a very hi-spec native 4K projector from JVC (despite the bulb illumination), but I just can't see it happening. A laser illuminated JVC projector at $25K would be, well... wow! If the NX9 is priced sub $20K I will so, so regret ordering another amp when I could have ordered an NX9... cant imagine a chance in hell ! the great cost in these will no doubt be the huge diameter optics. unparalleled at this sort of price point apart from the z1 that has the same. congrats on the elektras am one of those original theatre owners that upgraded to his HD units as well. where can support an aussie company I sure will too. especially when its quality of product you get for your money. 1
Davo1972 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, al said: cant imagine a chance in hell ! the great cost in these will no doubt be the huge diameter optics. unparalleled at this sort of price point apart from the z1 that has the same. congrats on the elektras am one of those original theatre owners that upgraded to his HD units as well. where can support an aussie company I sure will too. especially when its quality of product you get for your money. Thanks Al. I bought my original Elektra Theatre 7 channel when my dealer suggested I try a new (and totally untested and unknown at the time) multi-channel amp made by some bloke in Melbourne, and to be honest the price was too good to be true not to give it a go. I was totally blown away with the quality of sound out of it and it's completely effortless nature of delivery. Arthur's amps are the bomb in my opinion! Adding a Reference HD 300 was a no brainer for the upgrade to Atmos 5.1.2, and seriously it felt wrong not to upgrade the Theatre 7 channel to a Theatre HD2 7 channel at the same time! I'll pass custody of the Theatre 7 channel to another enthusiast who can appreciate her in the coming month or two (someone is already lined up, but if that falls through she'll be on the classifieds). Edited October 18, 2018 by Davo1972 1
TP1 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 54 minutes ago, wooferocau said: JVC will most likely introduce a laser variant of the NX9 early next year, BUT dont expect anything this side of $35K! I think they will do something a bit different. If you look at USA pricing, JVC have priced the NX-9 at around 30% less than the 760/885ES. The 760/885ES has been a runaway success for Sony worldwide and if we can leave brand loyalty out of the discussion, this indicates a very strong demand for laser driven, native 4k projectors from premium manufacturers at that price point . There is a price slot open for JVC to compete with Sony with a new laser model using the standard lens, no 8K but with iris, for the same price as 760ES/885ES . It is a proven money stream since the 760ES was released, and its a no-brainer for JVC I think. So why standard lens? Because Sony has proven you can sell bucket loads if you can keep the price of laser down. The similarly priced Sony bulb powered 1100ES with super-duper lens got the respect and forum cred like the NX9 will, but it is the native 4K laser model that gets the sales .
betty boop Posted October 18, 2018 Author Posted October 18, 2018 some feedback from R10KYJ quoting his avfroums post, "In that time though, I did manage to calibrate a NX9 for a distibutor's launch event last week, and I have to say I was impressed. The unit was very stable, and we had it running for 2 days without issue, using all the options (apart from CMD). It was certainly a revelation compared to some of the JVC engineering units (Z1), and even some of the early production models of other models which would lock up. HDMI handshaking was much improved, which was something I immediately noticed. The unit did not work with the autocal software, so I was unable to do a complete calibration, but with around 20 hours on the clock (it is one of 2 x NX9 around Europe at the moment) the SDR calibrated very well, with dE of under 1 on the colour gamut (inc colourchecker and multisaturation), after a few tweaks in the user menu. Gamma tracked a little low (around 0.1 down, but was nice and flat), and overall a very good image, as you would expect from a projector of this price. I did not get proper lumen measurements, and because this was on a big screen (140" wide, 2.35:1, AT 0.8gain screen) and I do not know exactly where it was in the throw distance, it was hard to get full contrast measurements, as I only had a limited amount of time with the unit, but it did look very nice once set up. There are some pictures on my twitter feed here: Kalibrate Limited (@ChromaPureUK) on Twitter The auto tone mapping was working on this unit. I need to do more testing on this, as there were a couple of scenes that I felt the black floor may have lifted, and blacks may have been a little bit crushed, but this was not my usual room, so have no point of reference, and thus it may be a room limitation on contrast rather than a projector/algorithm limitation. The tone mapping becomes an option when HDR is the selected gamma. It appears to use MaxCLL and MaxFALL for its calculations, and these are reported in the gamma window. As well as doing the auto part, there is a slider with a -5 to +5 (from memory) for manual adjustment of intensity, and this was clear to see in scenes from Blade Runner 2049. I did not manage to measure to see exactly what it was doing, but as you moved positive you introduced more light into the SDR part of the image. I did not manage to test if this also meant the clipping point decreased. I did use one disc that had no metadata on it (a quiet place), it appeared that the unit defaulted to a standard 1000nit curve and the intensity bar was still working (but I need to do more testing on this). The colour gamut with the Rec.2020 filter in place, measured 103% of P3 on this unit." also via avsforom post "I did not measure the gamut without the filter, unfortunately, although I have an enginnering sample of the N5 arriving tomorrow for a longer test and demos, and I will be measuring the gamut, which may be similar to the NX9 (RS3000 without filter)."
Johnny_Boy Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 What i can't understand about this new JVC projector line is how understanding everyone is of the new prices. Last year people generally viewed the 7900 as good value at around 7k , and viewed the 9900 as too expensive at 10ishk for what you got. Now we have a full 4k and its adding on 75% more cost for the equivalent NX7 and 100% more for the NX9. How are people not outraged by the increase in cost?? Yes, its now got 4k, fancy lens, dual iris bla bla bla, but does that justify the massive increase in cost? The way i view it is, that this is just the next step, the next feature, like when tv's went from 1080p to 4k, or when 3D was all the rage. And with all these changes, TV's have stayed relatively similar prices. I just don't get how everyone is now comfortable spending so much more than the model before it. Maybe its just me, and if i had more money to throw around i wouldn't care about paying 5k more for a NX7, but for now it seems crazy. 5
Javs Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, Johnny_Boy said: The way i view it is, that this is just the next step, the next feature, like when tv's went from 1080p to 4k, or when 3D was all the rage. And with all these changes, TV's have stayed relatively similar prices. Except this is a contradictory example. End of line 1080p TV's were selling for under a grand for MASSIVE screens, and 4K models were 4-5x more expensive for a similar screen size but only 4K... You cant really compare fire-sale pricing on end of line models vs intro pricing on entirely new redesigns. I wish they were a little cheaper, yes, but in regards to the N7, I'm not exactly outraged. The NX9 has a lens which has never been seen in a projector for less than $35 grand, along with 8k eshift... so again... you want quality, you're gonna have to pay for it. Have a look at how much Samsungs new 8K TV costs.... You are suggesting that should be the same price as last years 4K model of the same screen size.
betty boop Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Johnny_Boy said: Yes, its now got 4k, fancy lens, dual iris bla bla bla, but does that justify the massive increase in cost? The way i view it is, that this is just the next step, the next feature, like when tv's went from 1080p to 4k, or when 3D was all the rage. And with all these changes, TV's have stayed relatively similar prices. Any experience with how good current/previous jvc are ? Apart from nx9 which gets lens from z1 rest get same lens as previous gen, just beefed up in lens support to stop droop(some have seen this where lens moves) yes there are claims of new factory and beefed up QC. But I heard all that before which said with the x7000 abs it was good better than model before but it’s hard to say any better actually in optics as projector and light engine was improvement jvc before. I suspect as wee are hearing with xx900 series QC slipped and they just need to lift game. dual iris is not new. Model before had. yes native 4K with new models but to be honest there eshift delivers 3-3.5k and there is not that much apart fleeting moments in certain titles likely to see the benefit but I expect touch more clarity & smoothness without getting expectations to far up. why so expensive ? Suspect most forget how expensive current range were on release if talking rrp ? Try $5999 for x5000, $8800 for x7000 was over $10k on x9000 most I suspect think of x5900 at $4k+ and go what ? With the new range pricing ? the new range are 3rd gen 4K chip. Whole new chassis. Implementation of tone mapping all this costs they have to get money back. Same goes with nx9 the lens on that thing and just missing laser of z1 it’s placed about where expect as a non laser z1 and some new things like 8k eshift. Yes tad high in price but if cant afford new, buy current gen or older or new or 2nd hand they are glorious or wait for subsequent models and possible new lower price model in 2020
Johnny_Boy Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Javs said: Except this is a contradictory example. End of line 1080p TV's were selling for under a grand for MASSIVE screens, and 4K models were 4-5x more expensive for a similar screen size but only 4K... You cant really compare fire-sale pricing on end of line models vs intro pricing on entirely new redesigns. I wish they were a little cheaper, yes, but in regards to the N7, I'm not exactly outraged. The NX9 has a lens which has never been seen in a projector for less than $35 grand, along with 8k eshift... so again... you want quality, you're gonna have to pay for it. Have a look at how much Samsungs new 8K TV costs.... You are suggesting that should be the same price as last years 4K model of the same screen size. I'm suggesting that there should be a increase in price, but not to the extents of this current range. We had faux 4k and now we have 4k, its a slight improvement imo. Its more that JVC have now pushed many people out of their price bracket. (me) Edited October 19, 2018 by Johnny_Boy
Johnny_Boy Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, al said: Any experience with how good current/previous jvc are ? Yes, i have a X5000 currently and really enjoy its picture. Im sure i would like a 7xxx more. 3 minutes ago, al said: Apart from nx9 which gets lens from z1 rest get same lens as previous gen, just beefed up in lens support to stop droop(some have seen this where lens moves) yes there are claims of new factory and beefed up QC. But I heard all that before which said with the x7000 abs it was good better than model before but it’s hard to say any better actually in optics as projector and light engine was improvement jvc before. I suspect as wee are hearing with xx900 series QC slipped and they just need to lift game. dual iris is not new. Model before had. yes native 4K with new models but to be honest there eshift delivers 3-3.5k and there is not that much apart fleeting moments in certain titles likely to see the benefit but I expect touch more clarity & smoothness without getting expectations to far up. That's my point, its minor upgrades for a whole lot of dollars. The only thing that really is different is the true 4k, the rest is minor improvements (like what you would expect year on year with each release). 3 minutes ago, al said: why so expensive ? Suspect most forget how expensive current range were on release if talking rrp ? Try $5999 for x5000, $8800 for x7000 was over $10k on x9000 most I suspect think of x5900 at $4k+ and go what ? With the new range pricing ? the new range are 3rd gen 4K chip. Whole new chassis. Implementation of time mapping all this costs they have to get money back. cant afford new buy current gen or older or new or 2nd hand they are glorious or wait for subsequent models and possible new lower price model in 2020 If we take the RRP pricing for the X5000 range, the % increase in price based on what we know is N5 - $9,400 56% increase, N7 - $11,999 36% increase, N9 - $26,799 168% Still a pretty massive increase based on RRP 1
Javs Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 I definitely sympathise with the whole price shock thing, but that's why there is still going to be a 7900 sticking around. They really should be named something completely different. The NX9 cannot be compared to the 9900 in any way shape or form, its not even close to the same kind of projector. The NX9 should have been called the Z100 or even NX10 or something. The N7 should have a 9 in the name since its only $1500 away from that 9900 RRP price point. And the N5 should be called something else.
TP1 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, Johnny_Boy said: Its more that JVC have now pushed many people out of their price bracket. (me) Sony and JVC have the high-end native 4k market to themselves so pricing is set at whatever they think the market will bear. It is a pity that Texas instruments hasn't yet produced a 4K DLP chip with higher contrast . There are a bunch of competent projector manufacturers that would otherwise provide serious competition and keep prices down. 1
Johnny_Boy Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, Javs said: I definitely sympathise with the whole price shock thing, but that's why there is still going to be a 7900 sticking around. They really should be named something completely different. The NX9 cannot be compared to the 9900 in any way shape or form, its not even close to the same kind of projector. The NX9 should have been called the Z100 or even NX10 or something. The N7 should have a 9 in the name since its only $1500 away from that 9900 RRP price point. And the N5 should be called something else. Agree with this. The naming doesn't really work.
betty boop Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, Johnny_Boy said: Yes, i have a X5000 currently and really enjoy its picture. Im sure i would like a 7xxx more. That's my point, its minor upgrades for a whole lot of dollars. The only thing that really is different is the true 4k, the rest is minor improvements (like what you would expect year on year with each release). If we take the RRP pricing for the X5000 range, the % increase in price based on what we know is N5 - $9,400 56% increase, N7 - $11,999 36% increase, N9 - $26,799 168% Still a pretty massive increase based on RRP its all a bit up no question as I posted my self particularly the n5 is way off vs say sony opening model. and really how much is there to gain from the x5x00 to the n5 ? for such a price up ? we have nothin to suggest its justified. they lay their bed they'll lay in it. those of us with 7x00-9x00 unlikely to be looking for much more. its in the small gains I'd suggest. not seen anything to suggest otherwise to date. those in the x5x00 can always consider x7x00 or n7 but expect tp pay the price go for... 4 minutes ago, Johnny_Boy said: Agree with this. The naming doesn't really work. I see how naming works, in that the n5 & n7 is really x5x00 and x7x00 with new chasis and the native chip. naming them anything more than that just to justify a price most would see through... the n9 is FINALLY a true step up. sorry I never bought the hand picked malarkey of the 9 series and slight lumen increase the claimed for the price increase it was over the lower models. atleast now in the lamp models it is a true flagship. I can see a few folk buying that where couldnt afford the Z be a few others I suspect looking or an all out lamp model as well. if when they replace the Z its only going to go further up until we have some true comparisons we have not much more to go on to justify apart from our own personal take on these things.
Johnny_Boy Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, al said: not much more to go on to justify apart from our own personal take on these things. As it always will be for all things subjective.
Javs Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, al said: its all a bit up no question as I posted my self particularly the n5 is way off vs say sony opening model. and really how much is there to gain from the x5x00 to the n5 ? for such a price up ? we have nothin to suggest its justified. The closest Sony competitor to the N5 is actually the 570ES. Lens memories, dynamic iris, brightness, all those things put them both on a similar feature set level, The 270Es cannot even begin to compete much dimmer, no DI at all, not sure if they do have lens memories now but lack of brightness and DI is pretty huge, The N5 is 2-3 grand cheaper than what the 570ES will be. The JVC N7 actually has no competitor at its price point.
betty boop Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, Javs said: The closest Sony competitor to the N5 is actually the 570ES. average folk wont know or probably care. the 270es is the opening model and jvc will loose massively id suggest vs the spruiking traders that often dont even know themselves the ins and outs of these things and will be flogging it. for them the sony is a 4k machine and opening model my bet it will be suggested even by retailers time and time again to win the sale rather than suggest the n5 vs 570es in a bundle that goes way up. if anything sony has been very smart I'd suggest they will win against jvc in not only the n5 but also the n7 and also likely the 760es even rather than the n9. sony has more credibility out there with 4k anyhow. I can see the jvc being pulled back further even with it being suggested as a first effort and such. and why blame them. the n5/n7/n9 all have some work to be done to establish themselves. outside forums unlikely be setup properly by anyone let alone be demoed next to jvcs for anyone to know otherwise. with people just buying the sony branded cheaper thing in its place. dont forget javs...you yourself (for your own reasons no doubtP did the exact same thing once. I quite remember in conversations with you, me posting about jvc and yourself with your sony 300
Javs Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, al said: average folk wont know or probably care. the 270es is the opening model and jvc will loose massively id suggest vs the spruiking traders that often dont even know themselves the ins and outs of these things and will be flogging it. for them the sony is a 4k machine and opening model my bet it will be suggested even by retailers time and time again to win the sale rather than suggest the n5 vs 570es in a bundle that goes way up. if anything sony has been very smart I'd suggest they will win against jvc in not only the n5 but also the n7 and also likely the 760es even rather than the n9. sony has more credibility out there with 4k anyhow. I can see the jvc being pulled back further even with it being suggested as a first effort and such. and why blame them. the n5/n7/n9 all have some work to be done to establish themselves. outside forums unlikely be setup properly by anyone let alone be demoed next to jvcs for anyone to know otherwise. with people just buying the sony branded cheaper thing in its place. down forget javs...you yourself did the exact same thing once. I quite remember in conversations with you posting about jvc and yourself with your sony 300 Yep, you are not wrong. But I bought Sony because it was 4K, not because it was Sony. I was weary of JVC being a 2K projector at first. Eventually I wanted an iris, and also to see what all the fuss was about. If a sales man told me 'this model has 2-4x the max contrast of this model', both are 4K, and the higher contrast model is not only 200lm brighter, has a DI, and is only $1500 more, I would spring for the better performing model. I do it with TV's I do it with projectors. I dont really agree that the consumer does not care. If they did not care, they would be spending $3k on an Epson and not even be shopping for machines of this calibre. I think Sony is going to take a pretty large hit this year in sales because the competition is now strong. The 570ES is in trouble IMO.
betty boop Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Javs said: If a sales man told me 'this model has 2-4x the max contrast of this model', both are 4K, and the higher contrast model is not only 200lm brighter, has a DI, and is only $1500 more, I would spring for the better performing model. I do it with TV's I do it with projectors. I dont really agree that the consumer does not care. If they did not care, they would be spending $3k on an Epson and not even be shopping for machines of this calibre. they wont though. and it doest work like that. great majority of shops sell sony and they'll just sell it as here look 4k and so much cheaper than jvc and jvc ? oh they were never really ever 4k and now have 4k but its a first effort and you will pay a lot more to find out ! most of these things get sold off in bundles too. with the sony I bet you the retailers will move them at full price...and why not vs needing to greatly discount and reduced margins on the jvcs for them to move 12 minutes ago, Javs said: I think Sony is going to take a pretty large hit this year in sales because the competition is now strong. The 570ES is in trouble IMO. I think other ways around. sony will sell a lot more of these than ever before. to my mind first sony model which is half decent in spec for the money especially at the price point they have made sure its at. on other hand the n5 I suggest will be the sufferer.... anyone cluey enough will buy the n7 or buying / keeping the older gen jvc instead. the epsons are actually very good, (say that as a previous gen epson owner) for most people I would suggest will be more than enough. they are a pretty serious projector and at the ~$3.6k they go for there really is nothing in my opinion to compete. the 5900 was getting close at $4k but that will be gone soon...
Javs Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Anyone cross shipping the models, which is what most people do who throw this much cash on a piece of electronics will compare the feature set and find that for what you get (remember we are in the era of the OLED) when they see native contrast 80k and Dynamic 800k and Sony says 350K, its going to make the JVC look better on paper on top of all else, 100lm brighter. 103% DCI coverage. All glass lens. I think you have little confidence in the intelligence of buyers, you need to give people more credit in making considered shopping decisions, its why JVC was in trouble in the past, it was fake 4K, its a really tough sell when you can simply say one is real 4k and one is not. Now that cannot be said. Opinions differ, so lets leave it there. 1
TP1 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Javs said: I think Sony is going to take a pretty large hit this year in sales because the competition is now strong. The 570ES is in trouble IMO. Wishful thinking. I think the 570Es will be setting the pace but in reality buying patterns go beyond that. For spec junkies, the decision can go either way depending on what they are looking for but a significant proportion of people would still only decide after seeing one in action. Spending big $$ sight unseen doesn't happen in the real world as often as we think and JVC will have to have done an awful lot if they want to get close to Sony's latest motion and scaling technology - the goal posts have moved so its a bit premature to dismiss the leading 4k manufacturer just yet. Edited October 19, 2018 by Tasso 1
Javs Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tasso said: Wishful thinking. I think the 570Es will be setting the pace but in reality buying patterns go beyond that. For spec junkies, the decision can go either way depending on what they are looking for but a significant proportion of people would still only decide after seeing one in action. Spending big $$ sight unseen doesn't happen in the real world as often as we think and JVC will have to have done an awful lot if they want to get close to Sony's latest motion and scaling technology - the goal posts have moved so its a bit premature to dismiss the leading 4k manufacturer just yet. I didn't 'dismiss' them. I said they are in trouble. You cannot sit there and tell me this is not the first genuine year where Sony actually HAS direct spec for spec competition. I was under no illusions in the past that Sony was the only native 4K game in town. Not any more. If you dont think the goalposts have moved you are not paying attention to what is happening.
Recommended Posts