Spizz Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, wooferocau said: For those seeing the N5 as a "lowly Choice !!!" Translated... The n5 is like an x7500 but then with 4k function. Thats the best way to bescribe i quess. Maybe a little less black level but hardly to see. Might want to reconsider views on just where the N5 sits in relation to the E-Shift models of past. I know a couple of VERY respected people who actually viewed the N5 were "floored!" by the image it put out ! The full quote- Quote The n5 is like an x7500 but then with 4k function. Thats the best way to bescribe i quess. Maybe a little less black level but hardly to see. The vw360 was a tuned sony and got more picture pop than the n5 did. A person whom viewed a calibrated Sony VPL-VW360 against the N5 found the Sony to have more "POP" than the N5. The N5 isn't a final firmware/production version yet so hopefully those impressions change. Just wanting to keep expectations in check. Here are some more N5 impressions- https://www.lowbeats.de/exklusiv-vorabtest-jvc-dla-n5-4k-einsteiger-projektor/ Hoping the JVC N7 best the Sony higher models regardless as I am interested in that projector, but await a full review and street pricing first. Edited October 6, 2018 by Spizz 1
Spizz Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) More info on the JVC N5 vs Sony 360 comparison- Quote The JVC projectors where only calibrated well on SDR. The Vw360 was indeed fully optimized for HDR where the N5 en NX9 where not. We played with the settings but the Vw360 seemed to have more light output or something in HDR which gived the pop. Maybe it is a setting but we didn`?t have enough time to sort that out. But don`t see it wrong. The N5 had a great picture. Overal it`s better than the VW360. The sony ansi contrast is better. For me to step up from the X7500 to a N5 the step is to little. Yes it`s 4K but that`s it. The NX9 has got more potential in everything, the motion, upscaling, contrast. It gived me a whole diiferent looking experience. I heard the N7 is close to the Nx9. So i want to see them next to each other and good calibrated for HDR. First they need to optimize the firmware. Edited October 6, 2018 by Spizz 1
wooferocau Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) Feedback from another user who viewed the actual N5 and NX9 units...owns X7000... Earlier this afternoon I had a demo of the JVC N5 and NX9. These where pre production units. Please keep in mind this is my personal view and also that my reference to compare to is my current JVC X7000. Let me start with something I wanted to know immediately before viewing any image. Hdmi sync times! The dealer toggled between the Oppo menu (60p) and blu ray set to 24p and the hdmi sync was much faster. I did not clock it since there was no need but it was only 3 or 4 seconds on these new unit. Most of the time was spend on the N5. First with blu-ray to test upscaling to 4k by the JVC. Well for the “entry” projector in their new range this was very good, solid image, very good blacks and contrast. To my surprise the image look more anologue and smoother compared to my JVC X7000 (without eshift btw because I do not like it on non 4k stuff). But when comparing this to my old JVC X7000 the X7000 has considerable better black and aslo better contrast and to me that was clearly visible. Then we moved to N5 with UHD HDR discs and here it was where the JVC’s starting their true colour. The auto tone mapping was enabled on the JVC. And the image was just stunning in full colour range and finally for me a watchable hdr image full of pop and not having to play with x settings or custom curves. Here the image was so good that I did not notice the difference in contrast and black range so much. I will be there but the overall image was stunning with UHD HDR. Well done JVC. When I compare it from memory with a Sony 260 the JVC N5 is much better (sharper, contrast, etc). Even when compared to the Sony 360 I prefer the JVC N5. For me personally, keeping in mind that 90%+ that I’d watch would still be blu-ray and full hd streams the JVC N5 would be a side grade but not an upgrade. I would win with UHD and HDR and hdmi sync times but loose on contrast mainly (and blacks). I had hope that the N5 would come closer in contrast to the JVCX7000 but unfortunately not. So I assume the N7 would be a better candidate but its price is keeping me from upgrading. Then we also spend 20 mins with the JVC NX9 but there were still some bugs here in the software for which the dealer told me a workaround of some sort was in place (mainly related to HDR and lumens). The most surprising jump in image quality on the NX9 was with blu-ray here there is a large jump in quality and at some stages you wondered if this was not a 4k image (it was still a blu-ray btw). The jump in contrast and image quality was large here with blu-ray. Taking into account it costs 3x the price of the N5 ... Then we jumped to UHD HDR on the NX9 and there was still a jump image quality compared to the N5 but in my view less pronounced. The N5 is really that great. We also enabled the 8k e-shift and to my surprise it added a little bit of extra detail but only a very small difference. Sony has some serious homework to do! The JVC N5 is a great projector but for those with a JVC X7xxx I would say do a demo first because it is more a sidegrade. Edited October 6, 2018 by wooferocau 4
betty boop Posted October 6, 2018 Author Posted October 6, 2018 53 minutes ago, wooferocau said: Feedback from another user who viewed the actual N5 and NX9 units...owns X7000... thanks woofer, can we have a link please ? was there a jvc x7000 in the room ? what is the status of the jvc x7000 ? how was it setup/calibrated ? is this person comparing the n5 n9 in their room which has the x7000 setup or did they take the x7000 some place (was it setup calibrated there ?. or are they comparing x7000 at their place vs n5/n9 setup some place else. important questions. to understand if these are comparing properly setup projectors in the same room ?
betty boop Posted October 6, 2018 Author Posted October 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Spizz said: The JVC projectors where only calibrated well on SDR. The Vw360 was indeed fully optimized for HDR where the N5 en NX9 where not. We played with the settings but the Vw360 seemed to have more light output or something in HDR which gived the pop. Maybe it is a setting but we didn`?t have enough time to sort that out. But don`t see it wrong. The N5 had a great picture. Overal it`s better than the VW360. The sony ansi contrast is better. For me to step up from the X7500 to a N5 the step is to little. Yes it`s 4K but that`s it. similarly with this quote spizz, I note in this comparison was there a x7500 in the room they are comparing with, what is the status of the 75000 was it fully "optimised" is there a link to this one good to see some comparative comments coming particularly relating to the x7000 series. and thanks for posting these both @wooferocauand @Spizz , does leave some questions to nature of the comparisons, but it all helps folks I think
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 @Spizz I found it thanks courtesy of masterlake on avs, he posted a pic, showed atleast the 3 projectors in the mix with n5, sony and nx9. not sure i see a x7500 there, and whether it was wheeled in when required or something. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2996950-new-jvc-rs3000-nx9-rs2000-n7-rs1000-n5-native-4k-projectors-anticipation-thread-118.html#post56914660 intersting his comment you posted, 7 hours ago, Spizz said: The sony ansi contrast is better. For me to step up from the X7500 to a N5 the step is to little. Yes it`s 4K but that`s it. sounds like the n5 wasnt calibrated, no idea omg the 7500, but looks like the sony was look its still some good perspective, even if not fully calibrated and all. atleast all in the same room ! appears this was something courtesy of cinemike and jvc and he attended as customer. looks like it was tested without dynamic iris on the nx9 "No we tested them without. The iris slider had a bug in the Nx9, we adjusted it but nothing happend. After a few times forward and back on the settings something happend and the iris worked again. But we lost a lot of time on that. We only had about 2 hours with all the units to compare so i couldnt test each setting. The auto tone mapping didn`t work for bladerunner, but with lucy it worked." there is also the comment below, "Yes i know, and cinemike did this demo with JVC. Cinemike here in the Netherlands had a different NX9 than in Germany. Both used the same type oppo player. Maybe the firmware? But al the bugs are reported to JVC. I didn`t play with all the settings, and the iris bug was time eating. I report only the things i have seen. I am not a seller but a costumer of Cinemike." interesting also this comment of x7500 vs nx9 he also makes, "The iris was stuck in the beginning. After moving the slider forward and back it worked again. But we lost testing and setup time through that problem. And yes its more black than the x7500 but they are both very black do you dont miss a thing either way."
Spizz Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) That's the link Al. Seems like the N5 is inline with the X7500 from these impressions but with not as good black levels. You are spending $2000-$3000 more over the X7900 locally to gain 4K, some smaller improvements (tone mapping, HDMI sync improvements). It sounds like the N9 is where it is at, but at a price of $25,999 locally and without a laser, it is out for me and most I would assume. In a few years when they add a laser at this RRP price point or lower, I will be seriously interested. Hoping when the N7/NX7 is finally spotted in the wild it shares more similarities with the picture on the N9 than on the N5. I hope the N9 better contast, image quality, and upscaling that was noticed above in comparison to the N5 is not solely down to its lens as the N7 I believe will share the same lens as the N5. 3 Weeks to go and we shall know either way. Edited October 7, 2018 by Spizz 2
wooferocau Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, al said: thanks woofer, can we have a link please ? was there a jvc x7000 in the room ? was not sure if you were supposed to post direct links to other forums... https://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc-announce-native-4k-projectors.2186050/page-24 also talks about noise level,s.. Edited October 7, 2018 by wooferocau 1 1
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 36 minutes ago, wooferocau said: was not sure if you were supposed to post direct links to other forums... https://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc-announce-native-4k-projectors.2186050/page-24 also talks about noise level,s.. thanks Woofer will check out. we dont have nay restriction here, linking to other forums and such. so go for your life
Spizz Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 The N7 could be on display by October 21st- https://www.homecinemasolution.it/eventi-hcs/hi-revolution-perugia/
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Spizz said: The N7 could be on display by October 21st- https://www.homecinemasolution.it/eventi-hcs/hi-revolution-perugia/ indeed seems that ways ! whacked into google translate to get below, "Shoot Out of the entire range of the new JVC projectors The entry level DLA-N5 with a brightness of 1800 lumens and native 4K HDR resolution as the DLA-N7 which boasts inveece a slightly higher luminosity. Finally, the top of the DLA-NX9 range with the ultra-technological 8K e-shift technology and a luminosity of 2200 lumens"
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Spizz said: That's the link Al. Seems like the N5 is inline with the X7500 from these impressions but with not as good black levels. You are spending $2000-$3000 more over the X7900 locally to gain 4K, some smaller improvements (tone mapping, HDMI sync improvements). It sounds like the N9 is where it is at, but at a price of $25,999 locally and without a laser, it is out for me and most I would assume. In a few years when they add a laser at this RRP price point or lower, I will be seriously interested. Hoping when the N7/NX7 is finally spotted in the wild it shares more similarities with the picture on the N9 than on the N5. I hope the N9 better contast, image quality, and upscaling that was noticed above in comparison to the N5 is not solely down to its lens as the N7 I believe will share the same lens as the N5. 3 Weeks to go and we shall know either way. certainly seems that ways spizz, ps I saw someone mention n7 early November so not sure if they ae having a staggered release. possible I suppose or could be just where that person is at. regardless if anyone ever worked in manufacturing would know for a release to market in 3 or so weeks jvc factory would be in full tilt producing stock right now in readiness for shipping. so any changes hence is just going to be firmware which no doubt still testing when see the comments with regards tone mapping, the iris and such.
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 2 hours ago, wooferocau said: was not sure if you were supposed to post direct links to other forums... https://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc-announce-native-4k-projectors.2186050/page-24 also talks about noise level,s.. a good link that one, it doesnt look like comparing x7000 with n5 back to back. looks to be a x7000 owner that has gone to see n5 and n9 in the shop. Though still of value impressions has come away with. some caveats ... he doesnt run dynamic iris on x7000 or use it for HDR ! in low lamp the n5 he says is similar in noise level vs x7000 on low lamp ( he doesnt run x7000 in high lamp) and says the fan noise on n5 in high lamp is considerably higher. interesting comment re sharpness. I guess busting that misnomer that some people think uhd is going to be sharper. when its actually more detail and instead look smoother...just proving the point sharpness is not resolution. "Regarding image sharpness I can only compare to my X7000 with full hd. But no the N5 is not sharper then the X7000. Now something else though the image on the N5 was a bit more relaxed and analoge feeling compared to X series which I think is due to the new 4k panels." some other comments.... "Comparing the N5 to a X7xxx is not that crazy since their prices match (well before JVC dropped its price). So, my question was .. if I want to spend up to 6000€ like I did for X7000 will the N5 be an upgrade. Answer now is no." interesting his closing thoughts .... "Or stick with your X7900. I’m thinking doing the same and keeping my X7000 for another year." in response to someone else's thoughts (along lines I am thinking) "Which is why I am edging towards the N7 to replace my X7900. Before the trickle feedback from demos, my gut had already said I would be let down by the N5s blacks and contrast. And I have a good trade-in offer for my X7900, or, would still get more for it if I sold it on myself. I feel my choice is very easy and clear now. I've gained a lot in black floor and contrast in my non batcave (medium coloured walls) room going from an X5000 to my X7900 - it's mesmerising. That said, I wonder how much still, of the native contrast I am in fact, getting. So, the N7s native contrast for what it should be, should put me in good steed. In light of this, is their a tool I can use to measure how much native contrast I am getting from my X7900? That would probably be the end all of my decision." and in line with comment earlier that xx000 to the n5 is likely to be more a side grade...
TP1 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, al said: nd in line with comment earlier that xx000 to the n5 is likely to be more a side grade... I think its wise to stick with your gut feeling. I have never heard anyone say "I wish I bought the lower spec projector" 1
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 looks like some of the new sonys are starting to get to dealers overseas already ekki on cinehome has posted up photos of boxes upon boxes of both the 570 (695) and 270(295) models.
Davo1972 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 I completely understand the reticence of those of you who have the e-shift JVC projectors about moving on (note I didn't say upgrade!) to the new 4K models, especially regarding the reported drop in contrast in the published specs compared with the e-shift models! However, I find myself spoilt for choice! Coming from a 11-12 year old DLP projector (a Sharpvision VXZ-21000) with a reported 1000 lumens and contrast ratio of 12,000:1, any of the new 4k JVC projectors will be a significant upgrade for me! At the moment I have a $20K-25K budget to upgrade my home theatre for this current round of upgrades (I've already dropped about $10K on the room, and after this round I'll need to drop approx another $30K likely next year some time). I could probably afford an NX9, but I want to upgrade to Atmos , with four ceiling effects channels, and this will mean i need to look at something a little more modestly priced. To be frank projectors are more frequently replaced than speakers. Although I get that the X7900 has excellent (if not unbeatable in this price bracket) contrast at a brilliant reduced price, the benefits of the N7 (on paper at least at this stage), to me seem pretty good - native 4K, tone mapping, very good (if not better than the X7900) native and dynamic contrast, supposedly better QA on the optics, support for anamorphic lenses, multiple installation modes etc. Also the estimated retail price of around $12K seems great value compared to the competing Sony 4K projector (the VPL-VW570ES, which I figure will probably retail for around $15K-$16K). Admittedly the contrast will be less of an issue for me with my Stewart Firehawk screen (which should help improve contrast)! I'll order an N7, before the reviews hit the 'net, and hope to be one of the first in Aus to get one. Looks like I'll be one of the guinea pigs. 2
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 @Davo1972 if have $10-12k to spend we will indeed have great choice...I do agree too on paper atleast it appears better option than the sony. that said the sony option isnt breaking new ground for the brand. so wont be a beta tester ! but yeah atleast with the new usb port on the jvc hopefully updates are no longer a bother
IMDave Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 34 minutes ago, Davo1972 said: I completely understand the reticence of those of you who have the e-shift JVC projectors about moving on (note I didn't say upgrade!) to the new 4K models, especially regarding the reported drop in contrast in the published specs compared with the e-shift models! However, I find myself spoilt for choice! Coming from a 11-12 year old DLP projector (a Sharpvision VXZ-21000) with a reported 1000 lumens and contrast ratio of 12,000:1, any of the new 4k JVC projectors will be a significant upgrade for me! At the moment I have a $20K-25K budget to upgrade my home theatre for this current round of upgrades (I've already dropped about $10K on the room, and after this round I'll need to drop approx another $30K likely next year some time). I could probably afford an NX9, but I want to upgrade to Atmos , with four ceiling effects channels, and this will mean i need to look at something a little more modestly priced. To be frank projectors are more frequently replaced than speakers. Although I get that the X7900 has excellent (if not unbeatable in this price bracket) contrast at a brilliant reduced price, the benefits of the N7 (on paper at least at this stage), to me seem pretty good - native 4K, tone mapping, very good (if not better than the X7900) native and dynamic contrast, supposedly better QA on the optics, support for anamorphic lenses, multiple installation modes etc. Also the estimated retail price of around $12K seems great value compared to the competing Sony 4K projector (the VPL-VW570ES, which I figure will probably retail for around $15K-$16K). Admittedly the contrast will be less of an issue for me with my Stewart Firehawk screen (which should help improve contrast)! I'll order an N7, before the reviews hit the 'net, and hope to be one of the first in Aus to get one. Looks like I'll be one of the guinea pigs. @Davo1972 , I'm just up the road from you in Frankston South with a dedicated HT comprising JVC X7000, showing on an Oztheatre 130" scope screen with an 5.2.4 Atmos system ,if you want to pop around some time to see what the JVC's plus Arve curve's can do just let me know. Personally, I'm really excited to see what those with the cash for an N7 or N9 think of them. Especially, @wooferocau doing his comparison against a Z1. Having said that I'll be sitting this round out ( and maybe the next LOL). Let's just say that the N7 is approx twice what I paid for the X7000. My next PJ will need to be 4k/ laser/ 40ftL with a good lens for $10-12. If I have to wait another 5 years for prices to get to that stage, then so be it. Too many hobbies and only so much money in the bank. 4
TP1 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, al said: @Davo1972 if have $10-12k to spend we will indeed have great choice...I do agree too on paper atleast it appears better option than the sony. that said the sony option isnt breaking new ground for the brand. so wont be a beta tester ! but yeah atleast with the new usb port on the jvc hopefully updates are no longer a bother You shouldn’t keep dismissing new electronics in Sony as not being significant. They have been ahead of JVC in terms of motion smoothness in the past and with the new models they move further ahead and bring their improved scaling and upconversion which JVC doesn’t seem to have an answer for. JVC’s big news is doing what Sony did years ago. Sony have not stood still . There was one and only one thing JVC had as an advantage and that was the black levels with E-Shift. It won’t be the case anymore. Edited October 7, 2018 by Tasso 1
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tasso said: You shouldn’t keep dismissing new electronics in Sony as not being significant. They have been ahead of JVC in terms of motion smoothness in the past and with the new models they move further ahead and bring their improved scaling and upconversion which JVC doesn’t seem to have an answer for. JVC’s big news is doing what Sony did years ago. "You" ? making it personal or taking it personal again tasso. no one is dismissing anything. its just that the 570 is nothing new in that it is just taking existing sony tech / spec to make a new model. that is fact, havent seen anything to suggest otherwise. its a lot of cash too. we all make our own value judgments. doesnt look like stacks up for Davo, its not something i am going to be investing in for price point it is. As I suggested to Davo though atleast given nothing new as such he wouldnt be beta testing. which is expected I would suggest with the jvc given they are still sorting it out even though no doubt filling warehouse with models for release. both models have their plusses and minuses, am sure everyone will make their very own choices for their very own reasons. especially when we actually have something good to actually go on and make informed decisions. at present I for one happy to keep going with what I have and very happy with (not to suggest something that cannot be improved on) re scaling. I believe kris deering is on record(think I posted a link) saying in his comparisons the jvc z1 is best he has come across in this regard. no idea if/how that translates to the new Z9 though given it has 8k involved anyones guess.
flamjam Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 You shouldn’t keep dismissing new electronics in Sony as not being significant. They have been ahead of JVC in terms of motion smoothness in the past and with the new models they move further ahead and bring their improved scaling and upconversion which JVC doesn’t seem to have an answer for. JVC’s big news is doing what Sony did years ago. Sony have not stood still . There was one and only one thing JVC had as an advantage and that was the black levels with E-Shift. It won’t be the case anymore. We get it. You like Sony [emoji846]
TP1 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, flamjam said: We get it. You like Sony Someone has to keep the JVC fanboys on their toes! I listened to the same hype when I bought JVC and regretted it. I would have appreciated an alternate point of view at the time. 2
TP1 Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, al said: "You" ? making it personal or taking it personal again tasso. no one is dismissing anything. its just that the 570 is nothing new in that it is just taking existing sony tech / spec to make a new model. that is fact, havent seen anything to suggest otherwise. its a lot of cash too. we all make our own value judgments. doesnt look like stacks up for Davo, its not something i am going to be investing in for price point it is. As I suggested to Davo though atleast given nothing new as such he wouldnt be beta testing. which is expected I would suggest with the jvc given they are still sorting it out even though no doubt filling warehouse with models for release. both models have their plusses and minuses, am sure everyone will make their very own choices for their very own reasons. especially when we actually have something good to actually go on and make informed decisions. at present I for one happy to keep going with what I have and very happy with (not to suggest something that cannot be improved on) re scaling. I believe kris deering is on record(think I posted a link) saying in his comparisons the jvc z1 is best he has come across in this regard. no idea if/how that translates to the new Z9 though given it has 8k involved anyones guess. N5-N9 do not have Z1 electronics . N9 was found wanting in terms of up conversion and scaling at CES. The lamp based models are on their own. This is not merely a firmware issue , heavy hitting processing requires the chipsets and processing boards to go with it.
betty boop Posted October 7, 2018 Author Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Tasso said: N5-N9 do not have Z1 electronics . N9 was found wanting in terms of up conversion and scaling at CES. The lamp based models are on their own. This is not merely a firmware issue , heavy hitting processing requires the chipsets and processing boards to go with it. No idea, not seen anything to suggest either ways. as zombie from avs suggested we’d need likes of ekki to do his projector autopsy he does to understand electronics these have or don’t have between the models.
flamjam Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 Someone has to keep the JVC fanboys on their toes! I listened to the same hype when I bought JVC and regretted it. I would have appreciated an alternate point of view at the time.I looked at both sony and JVC when I bought mine as I'm not brand loyal and both make great projectors. I chose JVC in the end as the few things I wanted out of a pj ( reasonably high lumens, no motion issues, good contrast, low lag for gaming) were all catered to by the X9900. I also didn't pay much for my x9900 which sweetened the deal. When I go to buy another pj in a couple / few years, I'll shop out the brands again.
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