2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

[DoggieHowser]

I know Terry but my BS meter went off.

I know the Sony distributor told me the first shipment of the 870ES is already spoken for. I think it might be an incremental upgrade. FWIW I think the 870ES is what the 760ES should have been. But at its expected street price it is going to be smack against the Z1 which will boast higher lumens which is really important for playing back HDR material.

That said, I expect the Z1 will be replaced by a new model with the new 4K panels in the NX9 with superior contrast. Seems odd they didn’t just announce a Z2 or Z100 alongside.

One thing I will give JVC credit for - their support for the Z1 is nothing short of stellar. Many of the features on the NX9 like auto tone mapping and I read HDR10+? will make it to the Z1 as a firmware update. That’s one area that the Sony with its dismal 8.003 update from 8.002 that AFAIK does f*** all could learn from.

[betty boop]

[moderator post] have removed quite a few off topic posts, noise ratio is FAR too high, if there is nothing to post on the 2019 releases, don't post. we have quite a few people following this thread and tired old arguments are not welcome. Create your own thread on what ever other topic you want to discuss. Please also keep posts respectful and not make personal. [end moderator post]

[TP1]

On 23/10/2018 at 10:23 AM, Javs said:

I dont like motion interpolation, I also recognise proper 24p motion

Sony's   system from the ES-5000 includes  "True Cinema" mode  which  preserves the  original frame rate .   It is this technology that has appeared in the 760ES and will now also be included into the 270ES and 570ES for 2019 release.     Nobody has really liked the traditional motion enhancement either which is why this tech was developed. 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Tasso

[MLXXX]

8 hours ago, al said:

[moderator post] have removed quite a few off topic posts, noise ratio is FAR too high, if there is nothing to post on the 2019 releases, don't post. we have quite a few people following this thread and tired old arguments are not welcome. Create your own thread on what ever other topic you want to discuss.

 

The following thread I've just started up may provide an opportunity for people to comment on projector 24fps motion fluidity issues:- 

 

[Davo1972]

Operation Manuals for the new native 4K JVC projectors are now online (for the US models, I don't anticipate they'll be much different to the Euro/Australian manuals).

 

http://www33.jvckenwood.com/pdfs/download.php?Model=DLA-NX7B&File=B5A-2809-01&_ga=2.211817808.511877470.1540443727-581983449.1536799186

[T800]

US and EU both have the manuals now online. I doubt we will ever get them in AU going by the AU Website.

Edited October 25, 2018 by T800

[Michael391]

US and EU both have the manuals now online. I doubt we will ever get them in AU going by the AU Website.

They’ll probably get last years models finally up....

[Javs]

 

[TP1]

 

 

I noticed the RS4500 /Z1 RRP  has dropped to $30,000 now in the USA.  Any news about AU price?

[Johnny_Boy]

10 hours ago, Javs said:

 

Good to see the budget model (LX-UH1) being shown as well. 45.30 in the video above. 
$2,499 USD, 2000 lumins and 4k. 
Wont compete with the big boys, but might be ok. Though would still rather a a X5xxx or above

[betty boop]

3 hours ago, Johnny_Boy said:

Good to see the budget model (LX-UH1) being shown as well. 45.30 in the video above. 
$2,499 USD, 2000 lumins and 4k. 
Wont compete with the big boys, but might be ok. Though would still rather a a X5xxx or above

I'd suggest dont waste your time on that budget DLP model its really not jvc. its really only there to plug low end price point. if cash is low just buy 2nd hand or run out models instead  

[wooferocau]

Bit of a worrisome turn regarding the NEW models...

 

 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2996950-new-jvc-rs3000-nx9-rs2000-n7-rs1000-n5-native-4k-projectors-anticipation-thread-156.html#post57018986

 

 

 

AHHHHH...but then we have this......        https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2996950-new-jvc-rs3000-nx9-rs2000-n7-rs1000-n5-native-4k-projectors-anticipation-thread-156.html#post57019144

Edited October 26, 2018 by wooferocau

[muriwai]

I can't get either of those links to load !!
What's the bad news?

[Michael391]

Delays........ but only a few weeks.
Better to have it working properly, than be buggy.

[betty boop]

48 minutes ago, muriwai said:

I can't get either of those links to load !!
What's the bad news?

Just mucking with you  there was another that reported the ship with entire us allotment had been hijacked by Somali pirates or something

 

am sure all allotments are being held hostage by jvc Australia they need no help from no pirates

[poppybob]

Just mucking with you [emoji3] there was another that reported the ship with entire us allotment had been hijacked by Somali pirates or something [emoji3]
 
am sure all allotments are being held hostage by jvc Australia they need no help from no pirates [emoji3]

Craig Peer said:
Original Post
I'd say that they delayed shipment exactly in order to avoid that and ship a perfectly working projector.

We are all speculating and unless the root cause is communicated, we will likely never know. Things like firmware or software are easily correctable. If its something mechanical, then it could be much more complicated. I doubt they would completely tear down the projectors that were already built and rebuild them from scratch. Like Wooki said, many companies just run a temporary patch until production can be fixed to build it correctly at assembly. This is not an observation aboutt JVC, just how corporations around the world work. I have 25 years in Product Management and Development and have been around the block a few times
mattztt
Member
Join: Dec 2007
Mentions: 2
Posts: 150

about 6 hours ago · #7753
fatallerror said:
Original Post
JVC officially delayed the N7 and N5 due power delivery problem causing overheating. Source
The link is bad but that's worrisome as the entire chassis is going to be engineered for heat dissipation so depending on the nature and severity of the defect it could either require significant rework or a terrible work around (like boosting the fan speed/noise).
Mike Garrett
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Join: Sep 2011
Mentions: 197
Posts: 22835

about 6 hours ago · #7754
Frohlich said:
Original Post
I have to admit this doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Its one thing to have engineering say we need more time to optimize the firmware or the DI or the FI but these were off the assembly line and ready to be shipped and it sounds like QC killed the shipment. Glad they did but concerning that this needed to be done. Sure feels like this could turn into a beta program

JVC has not said what the problem is, but how do you know this is not just a firmware delay?

[TP1]

 

Manufacturers feel they have a deadline imposed on them  being the IFA and CEDIA shows.  Product  development and durability testing timelines don't always match up nicely with the electronics shows.  JVC promised the projectors  anyway  so you get situations like this.  They must have known about the problems   some time ago  because it  takes quite  bit of time to develop a solution and  alter manufacturing specs , parameters  and scheduling.

 

Probably best not to get one of the first units just in case  and can probably do a better deal after the pre-orders are caught up with.

[wooferocau]

@:) al 

 

Real world N7 impressions

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2996950-new-jvc-rs3000-nx9-rs2000-n7-rs1000-n5-native-4k-projectors-anticipation-thread-157.html#post57021086

[betty boop]

12 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

@:) al 

 

Real world N7 impressions

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2996950-new-jvc-rs3000-nx9-rs2000-n7-rs1000-n5-native-4k-projectors-anticipation-thread-157.html#post57021086

Oh wow ! It lives ?  thanks will check immediately

[betty boop]

Thanks woofer !

 

Looks like purplex has seen demo in Japan,

 

Reposting below, this is great first hand impression n7 vs the n5

 

soinds like the n7 definitely worth it over the n5,

 

“Just got back from the JVC demo session showing the V5 and V7. The actual units (according to their packing boxes) were a US market RS2000 and a (White) Japan V5. The demo was on a tiny 110" 1.0 gain screen and all the demos where played way bright so It was nearly impossible to judge real world contrast. I would say that it would be much better in my room at more realistic brightness levels.
Overall impressions. Both projectors are pin sharp and show a really "clean" image compared to eshift. The pictures looked like a giant OLED most of the time. The Peru 8K demo was much better on the 7 than the 5 and kicked what I remember of seeing it on an LG. I suspect dialing it back a bit at home they are capable of a truly remarkable image. The 7 is noticeably better than the 5 in color coverage and contrast.
The person demonstrating is from the development team at JVC for the V5. I suspect more on the management side but did know his stuff. I will try to not repeat what we already know but here are my notes:
- Color coverage is advertised as 100% Rec 709 got the 5 and 100% DCI P3 for the 7. The filter in the 7 is set to cover only that and not go much wider, it covers R,G and B. the Z1 (RS4500) is designed to go wider but lost alot of light soing so. Switching the new filter in and out the brightness did not appreciably change, they said it is under 20% light loss. When asked about coverage vs lamp power the response was that the advertised coverage is for low lamp.
- When asked about why the lumen rating is different betwen the projectors, the 9 is because of the lens aperture, which we already know. the 5 and 7 is basically marketing. There is a small difference due to parts grading but not 100 lumens. One is rounded down the other up.
- The difference in contrast ratings is NOT just due to the dual iris. the 7 gets higher binned parts than the 5 AND a higher grade wire grid.
- The reason why the 5 and 7 are so large is because all 3 new units share the same chassis. it was not cost effective to make a separate chassis for the 9.
- Motion control algorithm is all new. The intent of Auto 2 is to remove 24fps judder and nothing more. it is indented to be not noticeable outside removing judder. In the demo it was smoother but did not fix all occurrences that are baked into the souece. There was only a couple of times where I thought I could see it but it is better than previous iterations. Auto 1 is, he said with a laugh, for 60fps sports.
- DI control is also all new. Also Auto 2 is the go to mode. The DI and scaling is done in an all new high powered ASIC developed in house that replaces something like 12 chips from the previous design. First the new DI is able to maintain pin point brightness like stars while lowered in the black floor. It was pretty impressive in the demo showing HDR material cycling DI on/off.
- There was no noticeable difference scaling using the JVC vs the Panasonic UB-900 used for the demo. the new scaler options has settings to assume 2K or 4K source just like before but renamed. The enhancement looked just as bad as always to me and it was off for the demos.
- Calibration software is due to be released at end of November when the units ship. The japan release date was confirmed to be end of November, with the emphasis on the end (ie probably last day of) Sensor support is unchanged. When I asked about them supporting something more in the middle price wise than the current two units he said maybe but really could not say.
- I asked about contrast ratings. the specc'd ratings is at long throw minimum iris. He would not say what they were wide open. Only tidbit is that the 7 will be better than the 5 even wide open.
- the auto tone-mapping works real well, but the adjustment range for screen size does not seem like it is anywhere near enough to me. on the tiny screen it was set to +2 with +6(or 7) the max. Now the demo was quite bright but still.
Finally I talked about how the ATV sends metadata derived from DV metadata for HDR-10 and that this changes per scene. They were not aware that the ATV did this. The processor in the JVC takes about 3 frames to adjust when the meta data changes so it might be an issue. They developed with UHD discs and made sure it worked for all the discs they looked at which was about half of all discs available. We won't know the impact of this until we get units in our homes, but it is looking like Auto tone aping ain't going to work that well. I got the impression from my discussion that they are duly aware of DV and HDR10+ though and they are looking at how to handle dynamic metadata.”

[TP1]

1 hour ago, al said:

There is a small difference due to parts grading but not 100 lumens.

 

Do they really have graded parts?   I always thought it was  BS made up by the marketing guys in the USA to help sell the more expensive projectors.     This can work against JVC because if they do in fact fit different grades of  parts into different projectors, they are effectively saying that they are deliberately building projectors from lesser quality parts. 

[TP1]

2 hours ago, al said:

Motion control algorithm is all new. The intent of Auto 2 is to remove 24fps judder

 

It will be interesting to see how this stacks up against Sony's  tech that it had originally  developed for the ES5000.    Nevertheless, this is a definite advancement given that it looks like they are keeping the 24fps frame rate

[betty boop]

few things I am really pleased to hear with the tokyo viewing, 

 

that even with a 1.0 gain screen the demos were "way bright" that's great as obviously output up the sleeve still and this can always be cranked down with closing the iris. 

 

both look "pin sharp" and that the "7 is noticeably better than the 5 in color coverage and contrast" -  this has been the case with the x7x00 vs the x5x00 now so good that remains still the case making worth going for the upper model.

 

also pleased he said that "the auto tone-mapping works real well" and that they have tested on half the UHD discs available that is a commendable effort. I have non interest with ATV handling of hdr10+/DV. though interesting they are looking at handling its dynamic meta data.

 

interesting times. I look forward to more peoples impressions of seeing these first hand. I have been hoping to see these on n7 and vs n5 and current gen for perspective so this is great to read

[Javs]

10 hours ago, Tasso said:

Do they really have graded parts?   I always thought it was  BS made up by the marketing guys in the USA to help sell the more expensive projectors.     This can work against JVC because if they do in fact fit different grades of  parts into different projectors, they are effectively saying that they are deliberately building projectors from lesser quality parts. 

Chip manufacturers are doing it every day with CPU's and GPUs etc. Its not new.

 

The 9 series JVC's have always had considerably more contrast than the 7 series, everything else is pretty much a wash. So, the DILA panels were clearly graded appropriately.

[Owen]

2 hours ago, Javs said:

So, the DILA panels were clearly graded appropriately.

As are the wire grip polarisers which are largely responsible for greater contrast.

In the X series the lowest model (X5xxx and X5xx) got an older design of wire grid that was used in the original X3 and X35. Those old projectors still had better tested native contrast than any projector Sony has ever made at any price. Goes to show how far Sony have been behind all this time. Whats more, contrast didn't degrade over time as it has done with Sony's

Its yet to be seen if Sony have been able to banish contrast degradation with the new crop, but it will take about a year to find out. Anyone want to place a bet.