Speaker topper

[A J]

So - I once tried the AMG toppers way back when they did the rounds on my candy apple red ML1 +'s - the jury was out but I did notice a difference - it may have been placebo, who knows but they certainly looked like they should be adding value.

 

…..anyway - fast forward a few years and I have sneaked in a pair of ML1 REF's and also found some matching tunestands. In my quest for sonic bliss I was thinking maybe I should try experimenting again - knowing that the toppers are very hard to come by.

I must admit, having recently spent some time in the Lenehan factory listening to Mike pontificate on tuning waves and sonic isolation theory while I was busy drinking beer and listening to his ML5's - triggered a few thoughts.

 

One issue with hifi gear is that has about the same ongoing financial impact on the balance sheet as if I flushed a $100 dollar bill down the toilet every time I had a number 2. I knew that not only were the tuned toppers now unicorns, made from unobtanium - but that if I did manage to get a set they would be tres expensive and if I ever got hit by a bus, my wife would probably chuck them out in the rubbish along with all of my priceless caps and tubes not realising how many hair colours she could have financed.

 

I had a flash in the pan moment of inspiration and here's my plan.

 

It was either silver or gold, inert - non ringing, able to be flogged if the proverbial hit the fan. The issue with gold was that it is approximately $53,786.13 per 1KG bar making it a bit of a stretch for a pair. That left Silver, less than $800 a bar, small form factor and just a little bit blingy to impress my many mates.

 

Lets just say this experiment has rendered me speechless - it has tamed the speakers and just added a little bit of coherence, almost a shine and polish to the top end while it seems to have added a little weight. I'm experimenting with different grades of sorbethane to get the tune just right but for me this has just been a great little tweak. I can tell in a blind test if the topper is on or off (closed eyes wife trying to steal the family silver while I'm listening) 

 

 

[Guest Muon N']

Yup, the principles of engineering Mike used with the Toppers was/is sound, no pun intended.

 

Works well with big things too

 

 

Pity they are not still available.

 

I think you will get some more improvement as you play with the layers between the silver bars and speakers 

 

GTG's should be selective

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Muon N'

[oohms]

If you use bricks, you don't have to keep an eye on them when your mates are over 

[Kaynin]

I've seen the toppers before, even considered using them, but I can't see how they'd have an impact with an inert cabinet.  My cabs weigh 45kg each and sound like knocking on a brick when you tap them.  Is this something that is only effective on smaller speakers or lesser made?  (Obviously not saying the ML1's are lesser made, far from it, but they are standmounts).

[A J]

I've seen the toppers before, even considered using them, but I can't see how they'd have an impact with an inert cabinet.  My cabs weigh 45kg each and sound like knocking on a brick when you tap them.  Is this something that is only effective on smaller speakers or lesser made?  (Obviously not saying the ML1's are lesser made, far from it, but they are standmounts).

In all seriousness it’s about damping the cabinets reaction to the movement of the speaker cone - so imagine a big bass thump where the speaker cone pushes a sound wave out - physics dictates that there is a resultant reaction to the speaker cabinet where it is pushed back - the scale is tiny but it’s there especially with stand mounted speakers.
It’s more plausible than some audiofool theories I’ve heard anyway

And anyway - I feel like a bit of a pirate so having some pieces of silver and a tot of rum with my music sessions just feels right.

[Kaynin]

4 minutes ago, A J said:

 

In all seriousness it’s about damping the cabinets reaction to the movement of the speaker cone - so imagine a big bass thump where the speaker cone pushes a sound wave out - physics dictates that there is a resultant reaction to the speaker cabinet where it is pushed back - the scale is tiny but it’s there especially with stand mounted speakers.
It’s more plausible than some audiofool theories I’ve heard anyway

And anyway - I feel like a bit of a pirate so having some pieces of silver and a tot of rum with my music sessions just feels right.

 

 

Yeah, agreed, as mentioned I've looked closely at trying some out, and I'm a sceptic by nature!

[Sub Sonic]

14 hours ago, A J said:

while it seems to have added a little weight.

 

1 kg to be precise...

Edited September 5, 2018 by Sub Sonic

[sir sanders zingmore]

I reckon a couple of Ken Follett books would do the trick just as well, and save you some money  

[Guest Muon N']

The physics in the Toppers are the same as widely used in engineering in the real world.

 

With the AGM Toppers they were made to be used on ML-1's as far as I understand, so tuned (using a specific weight with specific isolating materials to get the most out of them) for them. Any old weight with isolators will get you part way there but not to where the engineered ones will, as far as I understand these things..

They will work to different degrees with other speakers, but they are tuned for ML-1's as I understand it.

[lowpoke]

Don't stop at your speaker cabinets ... I use mass damping on the enclosures of my electronic components as well.

[A J]

Yeah I’m thinking of getting a bunch more as they are cheap right now and who knows - the market could bounce back.

[Cafad]

You'll need slightly more silver to match the tuning if you are trying to copy the AMGs.  I think they were 3.6kg each (I weighed them back when I was trying to dissect the method behind the magic).  And you can get the new rubber feet/mount/stuff from Mike so all you really need is 3.6kg of silver (or anything else for that matter) on each speaker and the right kind of rubber feet/mount/stuff and they should work exactly the same.

[aechmea]

21 hours ago, Muon N' said:

The physics in the Toppers are the same as widely used in engineering in the real world.

 

With the AGM Toppers they were made to be used on ML-1's as far as I understand, so tuned (using a specific weight with specific isolating materials to get the most out of them) for them. Any old weight with isolators will get you part way there but not to where the engineered ones will, as far as I understand these things..

They will work to different degrees with other speakers, but they are tuned for ML-1's as I understand it.

and if you get the mass and spring material wrong. it can most definitely be worse.

 

The same mass-spring-mass technique is used in "stabilizers" for bows (archery) to quieten down unwanted vibrations on release of the arrow.  Not every archer gets their stabilizer mass/length/spring right!

[Ancientflatulence]

I find when I use 3.6kg of silver the sound is rather bright whereas when I use the 3.6kg of gold the sound is mellow and smooth, so I tend to swap between the two depending on the recording  .......... DISCUSS ...............

[Ancientflatulence]

Just in case you think I am a non believing luddite .............

 

[Happy]

1 minute ago, Ancientflatulence said:

Just in case you think I am a non believing luddite .............

 

That’s the cutest Lenehan I’ve seen

[Ancientflatulence]

Purty, ain't they ..............

[Assisi]

In the context of belief/acceptance through to denial I tend to sit with the former.  With some of the posts in this thread I consider that there are some positions posted that are simplistic that could cause confusion.

Whilst the AMGs have a reasonable degree of weight the fundamental key aspect is the movement of the weight itself to counteract the potential backwards and forwards action of the enclosure due to the movement of the driver cones.  I have ML2 Ltds and I tried AMGs.  They did make difference but for me it was not something to get overly excited about. 

Speakers move and to reduce that movement could be beneficial.  You can download an accelerometer app on your smart phone.  You can then get an indication of the speaker enclosure movement.  You may find it interesting

I find it difficult to understand that a small silver bar on top of a speaker will mitigate the enclosure movement.  Weights that do not move probably just look good.  Anything is possible though.

7 hours ago, lowpoke said:

Don't stop at your speaker cabinets ... I use mass damping on the enclosures of my electronic components as well.

What do you mean by "mass damping"? The AMGs are about mitigating enclosure movement.  Do amplifiers move?

Weights strategically located on top of amplifiers may contribute something to the overall performance.  It is something that I have not experienced and I question.  Once again though anything is possible. 

Power supplies and transformers can vibrate.  Resonance devices strategically located on top (or under) of amplifiers to absorb unwanted micro frequency harmonics, interference or resonance vibrations do work.  You can locate the potential areas of treatment if you rub your hands vigorously until they are warm and sensitive.   Then gently touching, move them across the top of the component.  You should be able to feel a potential site of concern.  Also, an internal look or photo may show you where the powers supply etc is located which is likely to be the area of interest.

I have a Stillpoint Ultra 6 on top of each power amp over the power supply.  That is all I could afford.  Used as a set of feet they may even be better than one on top.  They do work. 

John

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, Ancientflatulence said:

I find when I use 3.6kg of silver the sound is rather bright whereas when I use the 3.6kg of gold the sound is mellow and smooth, so I tend to swap between the two depending on the recording  .......... DISCUSS ...............

What weighs more 3.6kg of gold or 3.6kg of Lenehan Topper ?

[Ancientflatulence]

4 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

What weighs more 3.6kg of gold or 3.6kg of Lenehan Topper ?

Curiously they are exactly the same  ............ who'da thought it .............. .............. though the gold does deliver a weightier performance ..........

[zenikoy]

1 hour ago, Ancientflatulence said:

Just in case you think I am a non believing luddite .............

 

It's a Minion!

[sir sanders zingmore]

yes the gold sounds denser 

[lowpoke]

14 hours ago, Assisi said:

What do you mean by "mass damping"? 

 

Power supplies and transformers can vibrate.  Resonance devices strategically located on top (or under) of amplifiers to absorb unwanted micro frequency harmonics, interference or resonance vibrations do work. 

 

That's precisely what I mean.

Edited September 7, 2018 by lowpoke

[nonsynchro]

14 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

What weighs more 3.6kg of gold or 3.6kg of Lenehan Topper ?

The gold makes your wallet lighter.

[Assisi]

22 hours ago, lowpoke said:

I use mass damping on the enclosures of my electronic components as well.

 

1 hour ago, lowpoke said:

That's precisely what I mean.

@lowpoke

To me mass damping is about special devices strategically designed to control the movement of an object, building, component etc.  That is what the toppers or AMGs are about.  I do not understand how just a weight on its own will be beneficial as it would just move in the same directions as the speaker enclosure.  In fact, it could exacerbate any problem.

I also do not understand what would influence an amplifier to move backwards, forwards, sideways or any way such that the movement could be controlled.  Therefore, what are you trying to control with your suggestion and more importantly with what control devices?  I am quite interested as it may be something I could try.

John