Addicted to music Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) On 27/01/2019 at 5:46 AM, proftournesol said: no, but I have a 24-year old that takes 15 minutes. It doesn't change as they get older Expand In that case, you need to change tactics, do what I do, get everyone to shower b4 she does, and then set it up so when she’s 5 mins in she scream at you that it’s gone cold! Then tell her that cold showers are good for the soul, it’s all part of feng shui living! Edited January 27, 2019 by Addicted to music
proftournesol Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 On 27/01/2019 at 9:30 AM, Addicted to music said: In that case, you need to change tactics, do what I do, get everyone to shower b4 she does, and then set it up so when she’s 5 mins in she scream at you that it’s gone cold! Then tell her that cold showers are good for the soul, it’s all part of feng shui living! Expand ...good for the soul, except when dad gets the cold shower!
BioBrian Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 On 27/01/2019 at 9:58 AM, proftournesol said: ...good for the soul, except when dad gets the cold shower! Expand Ahhh.... soul! 1 1
agelessgoodguy Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 But given your down the end of a line in the beautiful Yarra Valley ensure you've got a GOOD STRONG surge protector fitted as well on the incoming mains line, Surges and lightening strikes, trees falling and the odd ballon dropping out of the sky could give rise to unwanted surges and beleive me that's not good. As to the Solar Panels creating noise they in themselves are DC power makers, making them clean of unwanted noise, but the Invertor or more precisely its quality/ specifications in trying to reproduce a 50HZ sine wave cleanly (to replicate real AC power) is where things can go awry. You seem to have worked out via better Power point extenders that the carrier frequency they use to transmit signals about your house can be overcome some by the Solar power invertor. Like Al miones fine from Solaredge too. Good Luck.
Southerly Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Aircrete is not a trademark - it's a type of block. It isn't expensive to use as there need be only (2) operations - (1) aircrete block, (2) crepi finish outside and if you live in Queeensland (lots of rain) you can use a waterproof crepi finish. It simply isn't true that this material makes building a house expensive - labour is the biggest expense just like in Europe. I pointed out that the ongoing expense of building insurance is a huge factor that should always be taken into account. No one is going to teach you in your final year at school about money, insurance or pensions - it would put a lot of parasites out of work. I do understand very well that there are a lot of places in Oz that have a continuous risk of fire, I'm aware at the moment of the high temps. in parts of Oz. All the more reason to construct a house of fireproof materials. I would imagine that the fire risk premium in many places will be bloody high, just like in the Netherlands no insurance is available for ground floor areas of homes and in some places zero insurance is possible for flooding. In fact the Dutch are well aware that in the future the Netherlands like most of 'flat' northern Germany, Denmark will simply disappear. That's why lots of Germans/Dutch and Danes buy property in other countries - common sense really. So cost out insurance for a fire risk premium, lower cooling/heating costs over 10 years - you may be surprised. Mortgages are the biggest 'gotcha' . Something not possible today with insane property prices but I met the parents of a mate at uni - they got married at the end of WW11, he was a carpenter/joiner, she was a shop assistant. They decided to just 'exist' for 3 years and pay off the mortgage. Then they made some investments which made life much easier later on. 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 On 02/02/2019 at 12:57 PM, Southerly said: Aircrete is not a trademark - it's a type of block. It isn't expensive to use as there need be only (2) operations - (1) aircrete block, (2) crepi finish outside and if you live in Queeensland (lots of rain) you can use a waterproof crepi finish. It simply isn't true that this material makes building a house expensive - labour is the biggest expense just like in Europe. Expand ... Quote I do understand very well that there are a lot of places in Oz that have a continuous risk of fire, I'm aware at the moment of the high temps. in parts of Oz. All the more reason to construct a house of fireproof materials. I would imagine that the fire risk premium in many places will be bloody high, just like in the Netherlands no insurance is available for ground floor areas of homes and in some places zero insurance is possible for flooding. In fact the Dutch are well aware that in the future the Netherlands like most of 'flat' northern Germany, Denmark will simply disappear. That's why lots of Germans/Dutch and Danes buy property in other countries - common sense really. So cost out insurance for a fire risk premium, lower cooling/heating costs over 10 years - you may be surprised. Mortgages are the biggest 'gotcha' . Something not possible today with insane property prices but I met the parents of a mate at uni - they got married at the end of WW11, he was a carpenter/joiner, she was a shop assistant. They decided to just 'exist' for 3 years and pay off the mortgage. Then they made some investments which made life much easier later on. Expand Aircrete certainly is a registered trademark in a number of countries including Australia and the USA, and a company trades globally as Aircrete Europe. The companies involved all cite AAC as their core product. If we're talking Aircrete as advertised in some communities as a non-autoclaved block then no, it's not expensive and it's usually foamed and set onsite. If we're talking AAC then yes it's not cheap. Labour is specialised either way, and you will need a significant width to meet BCA thermal insulation regulations on AAC alone. Most people won't touch it on a wall needing to be ~200-300mm wider... around their entire home. Not to mention that structural fixtures aren't inexpensive, and anyone wanting flush fit on any cabling or pipework need to score the block which implies (a) airborne particle risk management onsite ($) and (b) an interior finish of some sort. This and getting an occupancy certificate on non-AAC 'aircrete' is expensive, as the onus is on the owner to prove out material properties which will vary on a number of fronts. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice thing, had an AAC house once since sold to happy then-new owners, insisting it's cheaper down here simply isn't true. Sizing up an AAC fence for the home presently, looking to build it out of Hebel, should be quite nice when done. On 02/02/2019 at 12:57 PM, Southerly said: I pointed out that the ongoing expense of building insurance is a huge factor that should always be taken into account. No one is going to teach you in your final year at school about money, insurance or pensions - it would put a lot of parasites out of work. Expand If you live in a fireproof area you have some intrinsically higher costs and requirements to deal with at any rate - AAC isn't the only thing suitable at cost.
rawl99 Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 On 26/01/2019 at 12:38 PM, mwhouston said: Impact of solar on audio. Of course if you have inverters with your solar your whole house hums SMPS. And all outlets pour out high frequency hash. But then we are all joined at the grid so we all cop it! Correct me if I’m wrong. Expand My experience fits with what you suggest. There is a definite sonic degradation with the solar inverter connected to the house electrics. Even if the solar is not running ie night-time the degradation still occurs. Isolate the AC coupling and all better. I wonder if the very high frequency hash attenuates rapidly before propagating too far outward and throughout the grid. Given how common solar systems are now if the noise does propagate throughout the grid then one would expect that to swamp the effects of isolating my local solar inverter. From my experience this is not the case.
MLXXX Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 On 05/02/2019 at 4:30 AM, rawl99 said: There is a definite sonic degradation with the solar inverter connected to the house electrics. Even if the solar is not running ie night-time the degradation still occurs. Isolate the AC coupling and all better. Expand Has anyone else noticed "sonic degradation" when an inverter is in standby mode at night? I can't say I've seen this reported previously. (It's inherently unlikely given that the inverter electronics would be merely monitoring the panels and the mains, and not actually operating the inverter.)
Addicted to music Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 On 05/02/2019 at 8:14 AM, MLXXX said: Has anyone else noticed "sonic degradation" when an inverter is in standby mode at night? I can't say I've seen this reported previously. (It's inherently unlikely given that the inverter electronics would be merely monitoring the panels and the mains, and not actually operating the inverter.) Expand With my brothers system using a single String arrangements with one inverter using isolation relays to physically switched them off and disconnects then from grid from producing ( lights out no production) You can hear these relays switch on during sunrise and will stop clicking once the light is bright enough(producing and sending to the grid)
rawl99 Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 On 05/02/2019 at 8:14 AM, MLXXX said: Has anyone else noticed "sonic degradation" when an inverter is in standby mode at night? I can't say I've seen this reported previously. (It's inherently unlikely given that the inverter electronics would be merely monitoring the panels and the mains, and not actually operating the inverter.) Expand Okidoki. i confess that I am an idiot and that I and approx half a dozen other people that have heard this occurrence are imagining it. A number of people that I have discussed this with have found the same imaginary findings as me after experimenting on their own systems. You ASSUME that because the panels are not injecting that the switch mode function of the inverter is not tracking and synchronized with grid V. From my imaginary observations I would suggest that in this assumption you be incorrect good Sir and the switch mode tracking on the grid V is injecting hash ie smps-type hash Be assured that in my imaginary universe that the effect is very real for me and my imaginary friends. 2
MLXXX Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 On 06/02/2019 at 5:31 AM, rawl99 said: Be assured that in my imaginary universe that the effect is very real for me and my imaginary friends. Expand Ok, I can be assured that you and your imaginary friends (whatever that means exactly) have experienced an effect. I haven't seen any forum report, though, other than yours, of an inverter in standby mode creating an audible effect. On 05/02/2019 at 4:30 AM, rawl99 said: Isolate the AC coupling and all better. Expand That doesn't establish that the effect was inverter hash, with the inverter being in standby mode. It could be -- and I am speculating here -- that the solar panels act as an antenna, that is loosely coupled through the inverter circuitry to the mains. If there is local radio frequency interference that could be a way for it to get into power circuits in your dwelling. And if you have equipment that is vulnerable to RFI, that equipment could somehow be affected. On 05/02/2019 at 4:30 AM, rawl99 said: There is a definite sonic degradation with the solar inverter connected to the house electrics. Expand How does this degradation sound?
rawl99 Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 On 06/02/2019 at 6:03 AM, MLXXX said: Ok, I can be assured that you and your imaginary friends (whatever that means exactly) have experienced an effect. I haven't seen any forum report, though, other than yours, of an inverter in standby mode creating an audible effect. That doesn't establish that the effect was inverter hash, with the inverter being in standby mode. It could be -- and I am speculating here -- that the solar panels act as an antenna, that is loosely coupled through the inverter circuitry to the mains. If there is local radio frequency interference that could be a way for it to get into power circuits in your dwelling. And if you have equipment that is vulnerable to RFI, that equipment could somehow be affected. How does this degradation sound? Expand The reason for ‘imaginary friends” is because everybody else must be smarter than me given your quote as follows: “(It's inherently unlikely given that the inverter electronics would be merely monitoring the panels and the mains, and not actually operating the inverter.)” What about the inverter staying synced to the 240v AC side??? Could that attachment not cause switch mode hash?? It was quite surprising to us as we were doing regular listening tests as part of some cable development. One week at our Friday night listening session the SQ had suddenly gone to crap. Short version of a longer story is that I eventually figured out that the only possible change I could think of was the installation of the solar system that week and wondered/mused if that could be related. Went outside without telling the others what I was doing and isolated the AC connection and I heard them yell out that whatever I had just done the SQ returned to normal. I then reconnected the AC connection and within 30 seconds ( sync time) they yelled out that it had gone to crap again. I then disconnected the AC connection and went back inside and the SQ was indeed back to its normal level. I then told the boys what I had done and we all sat and shook our heads in amazement. Feel free to take that as you will. I got my sparky to put an isolator on the 240v connection so it is easy to drop the inverter offline for critical listening. The connection of the inverter causes a hardening if the sound and a distinct collapse of the soundstage in all dimensions. The subtle harmonics that create a sense of ‘airiness’ and huge dimensionalitu ’ ( for want of better terms) in the music presentation seems to disappear and the presentation becomes relatively flat, lifeless and unengaging. It a nutshell it sucks. 2
andyr Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 On 06/02/2019 at 11:21 PM, rawl99 said: The reason for ‘imaginary friends” is because everybody else must be smarter than me given your quote as follows: “(It's inherently unlikely given that the inverter electronics would be merely monitoring the panels and the mains, and not actually operating the inverter.)” What about the inverter staying synced to the 240v AC side??? Could that attachment not cause switch mode hash?? It was quite surprising to us as we were doing regular listening tests as part of some cable development. One week at our Friday night listening session the SQ had suddenly gone to crap. Short version of a longer story is that I eventually figured out that the only possible change I could think of was the installation of the solar system that week and wondered/mused if that could be related. Went outside without telling the others what I was doing and isolated the AC connection and I heard them yell out that whatever I had just done the SQ returned to normal. I then reconnected the AC connection and within 30 seconds ( sync time) they yelled out that it had gone to crap again. I then disconnected the AC connection and went back inside and the SQ was indeed back to its normal level. I then told the boys what I had done and we all sat and shook our heads in amazement. Feel free to take that as you will. I got my sparky to put an isolator on the 240v connection so it is easy to drop the inverter offline for critical listening. The connection of the inverter causes a hardening if the sound and a distinct collapse of the soundstage in all dimensions. The subtle harmonics that create a sense of ‘airiness’ and huge dimensionalitu ’ ( for want of better terms) in the music presentation seems to disappear and the presentation becomes relatively flat, lifeless and unengaging. It a nutshell it sucks. Expand Great story, rawl - which should satisfy the dbt-lovers amongst us! I'm absolutely not surprised about the effect of your inverter that you're hearing. Greenies have a lot to answer for, IMO. What I am personally interested in, though, is … will the same "hardening of the sound and a distinct collapse of the soundstage in all dimensions" affect my system - if I live next door to someone who has just installed an inverter? Andy
Assisi Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 06/02/2019 at 11:21 PM, rawl99 said: the installation of the solar system that week and wondered/mused if that could be related. Expand @rawl99 My assumption is that there are inverters and then there are other inverters. Some will operate and function better than others. I have heard a highly reputed quality inverter in a couple of friends solar systems. They definitely make a lot of "noise" when they are working hard at peak times. At night though there is silence. I have no idea whether there would an impact from these inverters during the day on a sound system My solar system is a micro inverter based system. I have not noticed any performance impact on my sound system outcomes at any time with my solar system. John Edited February 7, 2019 by Assisi 1
rawl99 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 1:40 AM, Assisi said: @rawl99 My assumption is that there are inverters and then there are other inverters. Some will operate and function better than others. I have heard a highly reputed quality inverter in a couple of friends solar systems. They definitely make a lot of "noise" when they are working hard at peak times. At night though there is silence. I have no idea whether there would an impact from these inverters during the day on a sound system My solar system is a micro inverter based system. I have not noticed any performance impact on my sound system outcomes at any time with my solar system. John Expand I agree absolutely with you John that all inverters will vary. Not all inverters are created equal. I got my kit through a friend who knew I was an audio nut...so is he actually. He highly recommended the inverter I got as being a brilliant bit of gear. I am a bit saddened by the findings I had
rawl99 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 07/02/2019 at 12:29 AM, andyr said: Great story, rawl - which should satisfy the dbt-lovers amongst us! I'm absolutely not surprised about the effect of your inverter that you're hearing. Greenies have a lot to answer for, IMO. What I am personally interested in, though, is … will the same "hardening of the sound and a distinct collapse of the soundstage in all dimensions" affect my system - if I live next door to someone who has just installed an inverter? Andy Expand Have to say that I was extremely surprised as well. I actually was very surprised by the effect of the inverter, unlike you. But when I contemplate it a bit the inverter really is like a giant SMPS. No idea of the effects of adjacent property devices. Put a No Trespassing sign up for wanton waves.... 50hz only allowed access. Edited February 7, 2019 by rawl99
MLXXX Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 On 06/02/2019 at 11:21 PM, rawl99 said: What about the inverter staying synced to the 240v AC side??? Could that attachment not cause switch mode hash?? Expand I consider it very unlikely hash would be generated in standby mode. In standyby mode the inverter generates no power; it senses voltages and the mains frequency. Any synching of an internal oscillator to be ready to start generating power would occur at very low level voltages and currents. It's a mystery to me why your inverter has had such a dramatic effect on your sound system when in standby mode. Even when operating at full power, hash from a household photovoltaic system inverter should not normally affect other equipment. There are government regulations regarding levels of emissions. Audio equipment would normally be designed to tolerate a certain amount of hash.
rawl99 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 3:58 AM, MLXXX said: I consider it very unlikely hash would be generated in standby mode. In standyby mode the inverter generates no power; it senses voltages and the mains frequency. Any synching of an internal oscillator to be ready to start generating power would occur at very low level voltages and currents. Expand Perhaps. I also find it highly unlikely that Rd would get coupled through as you suggested earlier. The entire panel strings are earthed as per the spec. So we are talking rf coupling into the solid state portion of the panels. Quote It's a mystery to me why your inverter has had such a dramatic effect on your sound system when in standby mode. Even when operating at full power, hash from a household photovoltaic system inverter should not normally affect other equipment. There are government regulations regarding levels of emissions. Audio equipment would normally be designed to tolerate a certain amount of hash. Expand The government regulations as I understand are for radiated hash rather than what is sent back down the wires. Agree there are significant regulations Re acceptable levels. You have made the statement repeatedly across multiple threads that “Audio equipment would normally be designed to tolerate a certain amount of hash. “ . Just our of curiosity can you present any evidence to support this claim/supposition? If so, what type of hash? What frequency range of hash? What level of hash would we expect to be rejected? Then the key one: what impact does super-heavy-duty filtering and regulation have on the sonic performance of a component? The reason I mention this is because pretty much all of the very good sounding equipment that I have ever experienced has been extremely sensitive to mains issues. So much of the apparently brilliantly designed ( from a theoretical POV) equipment with mega cap banks and mega-regulation internally sounds meh ime of listening to a lot of it. The best sounding equipment I have heard has always been valve-based with typical C-L-C-R-C or C-R-C-R-C style power supplies. They have always been sensitive to mains quality. I find it very telling that a LOT!!!!! of people comment that their systems sound the best late at night —- is when all the crap from industry is at a minimum and solar is also at a minimum. I find exactly the same thing and it is not imagined. So that clearly suggests to me that the very vast majority of audio equipment with all nature of varied design philosophies is significantly sensitive to mains quality. That fits 100% with my experiences over the years. One example I will pick on is the Audio Research Ref610T valve monoblocks. They were designed with huge cap-banks on the power supplies and significant regulation of supplies: and were an outstanding sounding amplifier——and significantly sensitive to mains quality ( and power cables) So why with this design approach were they still mains sensitive?? cheers
andyr Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 07/02/2019 at 7:22 AM, rawl99 said: You have made the statement repeatedly across multiple threads that “Audio equipment would normally be designed to tolerate a certain amount of hash. “ . Just our of curiosity can you present any evidence to support this claim/supposition? If so, what type of hash? What frequency range of hash? What level of hash would we expect to be rejected? Expand Great challenge, rawl. I suspect MLXXX will not be able to provide such evidence. Quote Then the key one: what impact does super-heavy-duty filtering and regulation have on the sonic performance of a component? Expand Great question. But what do you define as "super-heavy-duty filtering"? Surely C-L-C-R-C or C-R-C-R-C PSs are automatically "heavy duty"? Whether this affects the sonic performance of a power amp I may be able to tell you at the weekend - as I have just built a dual-mono 'SAKSA 85' ... which I am going to compare against a stock stereo SAKSA 85 on Saturday. IOW, on a whim, I: cut the amplifier modules off the stereo PCB, threw away the single PS which both channels share in the normal stereo config - which has what I consider to be (for ideal sound!) an inadequate amount of uF on each DC rail, and connected them up to a dual mono PS that I'd built, with 3 times the uF on each DC rail ... and a separate PS (and power traffo) for each channel. Quote The reason I mention this is because pretty much all of the very good sounding equipment that I have ever experienced has been extremely sensitive to mains issues. Expand I can't say I've experienced this - possibly bcoz: I don't do much late-night listening? or I've never listened to 'very good-sounding' equipment! Andy Edited February 7, 2019 by andyr
rawl99 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 07/02/2019 at 8:02 AM, andyr said: Great challenge, rawl. I suspect MLXXX will not be able to provide such evidence. Expand Actually do not mean it as a challenge. I am just wanting to know what the bass is for his supposition Quote Great question. But what do you define as "super-heavy-duty filtering"? Surely C-L-C-R-C or C-R-C-R-C PSs are automatically "heavy duty"? Expand You ask a fine question here. I was not very specific was I. I guess my interpretation of super-heavy-duty is gained from the technical brains-trust on this forum who reliably state that any product that changes its sonic character with a change in power cord is poorly designed. Everything that is well-designed is apparently immune to any changes on the AC because the power supply effectively isolates the downstream from any AC effects. Accordingly everything I build or work on must be poorly designed because: Their sonic character consistently changes with changing power cords They are sensitive to mains quality eg my solar example They don't have mega-huge massively parallelled capacitor banks in their power supplies......which appears to be the cure-all for removing sensitivity to mains-related effects. Typcally I find such methodology to produce a rather flat and bland sound signature. Quote Whether this affects the sonic performance of a power amp I may be able to tell you at the weekend - as I have just built a dual-mono 'SAKSA 85' ... which I am going to compare against a stock stereo SAKSA 85 on Saturday. IOW, on a whim, I: cut the amplifier modules off the stereo PCB, threw away the single PS which both channels share in the normal stereo config - which has what I consider to be (for ideal sound!) an inadequate amount of uF on each DC rail, and connected them up to a dual mono PS that I'd built, with 3 times the uF on each DC rail ... and a separate PS (and power traffo) for each channel. Expand Interested in your results as I often observe degradation with too much C Quote I can't say I've experienced this - possibly bcoz: I don't do much late-night listening? or I've never listened to 'very good-sounding' equipment! Andy Expand I thought old-farts didn't need to sleep as much Get to more Hifi shows where you can (apparently) listen to the pinnacle of technological developments and hear the best sound reproduction that your $ can buy. Cheers lad. Let us know how your experiment goes Edited February 7, 2019 by rawl99
Addicted to music Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 1:40 AM, Assisi said: @rawl99 My assumption is that there are inverters and then there are other inverters. Some will operate and function better than others. I have heard a highly reputed quality inverter in a couple of friends solar systems. They definitely make a lot of "noise" when they are working hard at peak times. At night though there is silence. I have no idea whether there would an impact from these inverters during the day on a sound system My solar system is a micro inverter based system. I have not noticed any performance impact on my sound system outcomes at any time with my solar system. John Expand Hi john, off topic, how are those microinverters holding up? Were they Enphase?
MLXXX Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 07/02/2019 at 7:22 AM, rawl99 said: I also find it highly unlikely that Rd would get coupled through as you suggested earlier. The entire panel strings are earthed as per the spec. So we are talking rf coupling into the solid state portion of the panels. Expand Yes the solid state portion of the panels, combined with the DC cable feeding from the strings down to the inverter. On 07/02/2019 at 7:22 AM, rawl99 said: The government regulations as I understand are for radiated hash rather than what is sent back down the wires. Agree there are significant regulations Re acceptable levels. Expand Actually it is a requirement to generate a reasonably pure sinewave to feed into the mains. It's tricky to quote Australian Standards these days as they normally require payment of a fee to acquire. However I can provide very limited excerpts which should allow you to appreciate the broad approach that has existed for many years. AS 4777.2—2005 (Grid connection of energy systems via inverters, Part 2: Inverter requirements) stated: Quote 4.5 Harmonic currents The harmonic currents of the inverter shall not exceed the limits specified in Tables 1 and 2 and the total harmonic distortion (THD) (to the 50th harmonic) shall be less than 5%. Expand AS477.2-2005 also dealt with DC-offset: Quote 4.9 Direct current injection In the case of a single-phase inverter, the d.c. output current of the inverter at the a.c. terminals shall not exceed 0.5% of its rated output current or 5 mA, whichever is the greater. Expand On 07/02/2019 at 7:22 AM, rawl99 said: You have made the statement repeatedly across multiple threads that “Audio equipment would normally be designed to tolerate a certain amount of hash. “ . Just our of curiosity can you present any evidence to support this claim/supposition? If so, what type of hash? What frequency range of hash? What level of hash would we expect to be rejected? Expand Retailers in Australia are required to sell products that are of merchantable quality, and fit for purpose. Failure to do so will entitle the buyer to a refund. These requirements can be traced back to very old state Sales of Goods Act provisions. Today, these sorts of requirements are incorporated in consumer protection legislation at the federal level, and can make corporations liable for pecuniary penalties. What in 2019 should be regarded as merchantable quality in an audiophile device would be a question of fact. In legal proceedings, evidence could be sought from experts, or there could be precedents to cite from earlier proceedings involving similar facts. For example, given that it is standard practice in Australia for mains voltages to vary significantly above and below the nominal value, then an audiophile device that was unduly sensitive to small variations would arguably not be of merchantable quality. Given that a certain amount of "hash" being present at a householder's power point is a normal occurrence in Australia, it would be prudent for a manufacturer, importer or retailer, to have regard to whether an audiophile device will perform well despite a certain amount of hash. If a customer brings goods back to a retailer for refund because inverter hash in the neighbourhood has severely compromised the performance of the audiophile device, the customer probably would have a strong case, unless it could be shown that the level and nature of the hash was well beyond the norm for Australian conditions, or actually illegal. In the design phase for a product, it would be unwise for a manufacturer to ignore the circumstances in which the product is likely to be used. I cannot tell you, @rawl99 what spectral distributions of hash are currently typical in Australia. Given that we now have LED room lights being controlled by trailing edge dimmers, and given that we have more and more solar inverters coming on line, I would think that typical levels of hash could well be on the increase. _____________ Edit: An additional response (or non-response!):- On 07/02/2019 at 7:22 AM, rawl99 said: Then the key one: what impact does super-heavy-duty filtering and regulation have on the sonic performance of a component? The reason I mention this is because pretty much all of the very good sounding equipment that I have ever experienced has been extremely sensitive to mains issues. Expand I might leave discussion of any impact of "super-heavy-duty filtering and regulation" on "the sonic performance of a component" to another thread. This appears to be subject matter in a similar ball park to the sonic performance of different power cords, i.e. a type of subject matter on which there never seems to be agreement in audiophile forums. Edited February 8, 2019 by MLXXX
frankn Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 A lot of assumptions about what manufacturers should do, what performance is, what the authorities will agree with. Our expecations are not always met by the people that ‘police’ these. Many people would be put off by the expense of taking a company to court to settle a dispute. eg I had a defective iPhone, where the battery kept discharging in less than 24hrs no matter the usage. This occurred about 2 months after the warranty ran out. The issue was well documented on Internet forums from overseas. Apple in USA replaced batteries and fixed the units. In Australia Apple said sorry out of warranty. I approached the ACCC about it and was told as the unit was out of the warranty period to purchase a new phone. 1
Assisi Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 07/02/2019 at 1:09 PM, Addicted to music said: Were they Enphase? Expand They are Enphase. I went down the microinverter path because of tree shading. The system has been going now for two years and seems fine in terms of production and no inverter has failed. The panels need a clean. John Edited February 7, 2019 by Assisi
Addicted to music Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 8:25 PM, Assisi said: @frankn , They are Enphase. I went down the microinverter path because of tree shading. The system has been going now for two years and seems fine in terms of production and no inverter has failed. The panels need a clean. John Expand Hi john, thats good to know. Do you remember which models you have installed? If I ever get PV this is where I’m going, it ticks all the boxes for me, not to mentioned that if a panel or an inverter is faulty the rest of the system is producing, unlike string arrangements. And above all youre in Victoria too.
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