MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 Ok ... here goes. I have been a long term iiNET customer and suffered for a long time with very slow ADSL speeds, being over 3 km from an exchange, resulting in 2-3 Mbps. In came the NBN FTTN to my location in March this year and it was a superb transition. Everything that I was told would be done was done, and with a new iiNet TG-789 modem specifically designed for the NBN, I opted for a mid-tier plan so that I could get the UHD Netflix, Tidal etc. I must say that I was mightily impressed and have been monitoring my download and upload speeds since March every couple of days. Being a mathematician, I set up a spreadsheet to record the speeds and the dates etc. From March to August (yes that is March, April, May, June, July and August) I was receiving a solid 47-48 Mbps download speed and a steady 16-17 Mbps upload speed. Added to that NOT a single drop out of service!!! Whoa ... this was superb!! I know the physical location of the node that I am connected to and it is 500 m from my house (by road not straight line distance), although I am told by iiNET that the 'cable' distance is near 800 m. Then the story changes. In saying this I must point out that I have not changed ANYTHING inside my house, have not changed any cables inside my house (it is smart-wired with CAT6 cable), have not added any network points, have not changed the modem etc. My modem has always been where it has been, in my study, connected to its wall socket, which is then connected to the street. Then early October, I noticed that the solid 47-48 Mbps drops down to 37 Mbps and then it hits a plateau at 24-25 Mbps. Then it starts DROPPING out. I call iiNET support and we go through modem checks, I get asked the questions have I changed my cables, have I done any work on the house etc. iiNET then raise the issue with the NBN and apparently iiNET get told that the NBN have detected at my residence a 'BRIDGE-TAP' as the reason for the slower speed!!! Interesting .... I have done nothing and now I have a 'BRIDGE-TAP'. So I then scramble and google the internet and I do some reading. I appears that many people have been told this as some way for the NBN to say "not our fault" and that there is something wrong at my house. Strangely after complaining about the slow speed (24-25 Mbps) - which iiNET agree is UNDER the specification for what I am paying for, the speed has now improved back up to a solid 38-39 Mbps (independent of the time of day). That is ... the speed has been improved from 24-25 Mbps to 38-39 Mbps WITHOUT me doing anything again!!!! I feel that I am being fed nonsense by someone and that the problem is not with my house/wiring/modem but something out in the street or at the node or somewhere in between. No one at iiNET has been able to explain why for 6 months everything was going so well and now it is not what it used to be. At present I am not getting any dropouts of service (so iiNET have somehow stabilised the connection), but I am not getting the 47-48 Mbps I had previously. The upload speed is wildly variable, but quite poor at 3-4 Mbps. iiNET support are in the process of arranging a technician to visit my residence and investigate, possibly to report back to the NBN that there is no fault at my residence. Can anyone suggest what I do next IF there is no fault found at my residence? 2
Kaynin Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 One option is to change ISP. I have had FTTH for 6 years and the first ISP I used was Exetel - unheard of at the time. Anyway, after about 4 years of awesome speeds (90+Mbps 24/7) I noticed changes and the speeds declined, as well as becoming erratic. This coincided with the customer base at Exetel increasing significantly (now in our estate everyone is on Exetel). I think the service with Exetel has started to become strangled with more customers. Long story short, I changed ISP to DCSI (another unheard of) and my speeds are flying again - 90+ Mbps 24/7. I haven't changed a thing at home throughout this time, and I've never had a technician attend my home. 1
MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kaynin said: One option is to change ISP. Yes I understand that and I have told iiNET that too. iiNET appear to be keen to do as much as they can. Their phone service personel are very polite but possibly let down by managers and executives making decisions to allocate bandwith ? I can only assume that your previous ISP decided not to allocate enough bandwith as time progressed?
Kaynin Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, MrC said: Yes I understand that and I have told iiNET that too. iiNET appear to be keen to do as much as they can. Their phone service personel are very polite but possibly let down by managers and executives making decisions to allocate bandwith ? I can only assume that your previous ISP decided not to allocate enough bandwith as time progressed? Spot on. 1
MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kaynin said: Spot on. I see .... so I suppose that too many people who joined the NBN opted for slower speeds and so you got 'throttled'?
Kaynin Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, MrC said: I see .... so I suppose that too many people who joined the NBN opted for slower speeds and so you got 'throttled'? No, not my understanding, but more to do with the ISP keeping their costs down or, more accurately, not increasing their expenditure to maintain performance levels when usage increased via growing customer numbers. 1
Grumpy Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 @MrC l feel your pain after my recent troubles.
MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, Kaynin said: No, not my understanding, but more to do with the ISP keeping their costs down or, more accurately, not increasing their expenditure to maintain performance levels when usage increased via growing customer numbers. Did you have to change modems? Were there any fees you had to pay to break your previous ISP contract?
MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 35 minutes ago, Grumpy said: @MrC l feel your pain after my recent troubles. Thanks Grumpy. Hope you are happy now.
Kaynin Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, MrC said: Did you have to change modems? Were there any fees you had to pay to break your previous ISP contract? I only need a router. No kept the same hardware for change over, it wasn't like it was locked to a service provider. Actually the first modem I ever had was sent by my first ISP, Exetel. It was the one they recommended - and it caused me major issues, drop outs every 30 secs. After many calls to their tech dept., they sent a new router, same make/model...but the issues persisted. I walked in to a computer store and told them the situation and they sold me an ASUS router (top of the line 6 years ago) - and I've never looked back. It's still flying along! I always avoid ISP supplied modem/routers, they're pretty basic units compared to what's available in the market. No break cost fees, just a new joining fee with the new ISP, about $70. As soon as I churned over I noticed my internet flying again. 1
MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, Kaynin said: I walked in to a computer store and told them the situation and they sold me an ASUS router (top of the line 6 years ago) - and I've never looked back. It's still flying along! Was there a particular configuration of this router? Do any settings have to be changed if you changed your ISP?
Kaynin Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, MrC said: Was there a particular configuration of this router? Do any settings have to be changed if you changed your ISP? Hmmm, I first configured my router 6 years ago with over the phone help from Exetel, so sorry I really don't recall if there was anything specific set up. The settings remained the same with the new ISP, but I just had to update the log in details for the new ISP. They helped me over the phone to do that, simply entering new details and saving. We didn't touch anything else and they didn't check anything else. For the record, the router is an Asus RT-AC68U. It was a market leader 6 years ago when I bought it, and is still a good performer now. Personally, consider an after market modem if you have an ISP supplied one. Look at it this way, they don't give away top quality units free. The modem/router is often over looked in performance issues. These days they need to be mini-computers. We have around 15-20 devices connected at any one time, and there's only two adults who use the network! So, the modem/router, IMHO, needs to be a good one. 1
davewantsmoore Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, MrC said: Then the story changes. Without going into excessive detail, VDSL is quite sensitive to cabling, and things can be working one day, flaky the next. It isn't necessary that anyone changed anything anywhere. Quote NBN have detected at my residence a 'BRIDGE-TAP' as the reason for the slower speed!!! Interesting .... I have done nothing and now I have a 'BRIDGE-TAP'. You say you modem goes to the wall socket and then to the street. Is that 100% correct? ie. You have one, and only one telephone socket, which is wired directly to the incoming telephone service, and is wired to nothing else? Quote No one at iiNET has been able to explain why for 6 months everything was going so well and now it is not what it used to be Just because it worked fine, and now doesn't - doesn't mean it isn't something on your property that is the cause.... but it sounds like it's not (although you need to confirm, if you know about your wiring - it sounds like you do), so this could be a mysterious one (if it looks like a bridge to the diagnostics). 7 hours ago, MrC said: Can anyone suggest what I do next IF there is no fault found at my residence? NBN are sending a technician to investigate. NBN own the network all the way up to the first socket in your house. It's their responsibility.... and if there is something wrong anywhere on the NBN side of that first telephone socket then they'll talk to you about getting that fixed up. If there is bridge tap style wiring, like they thought they could see ..... then, that's after the first socket, and doesn't belong to NBN.... you should fix that. If there is not (bridge tap wiring) .... then the technician should have a sniff around and see what else is going on. He should sync on the NBN side of the network boundary, and confirm what is happening there, etc.etc. The result should be that you either get some info which will help you know what to do/try next .... or NBN will tell you that "something is happening". 7 hours ago, MrC said: I feel that I am being fed nonsense by someone and that the problem is not with my house/wiring/modem but something out in the street or at the node or somewhere in between. Unfortunately.... if you have 25mbps with no significant dropouts ..... then technically there is no problem with the network. That the service which was designed/built. iiNet would need to put you on an appropriate plan (25mbps) and that it. ... but seeing as you've had rock stable 50mbps, then there is some hope. When you were having dropouts, how severe are you talking? ..... it seems strange (and likely part of the problem) that NBN can see what looks like a bridge-tap on your side of the network. 7 hours ago, MrC said: I appears that many people have been told this as some way for the NBN to say "not our fault" and that there is something wrong at my house. This is not the case at all.... it is simply whinging from misinformed consumers, usually who have had very poor help from useless ISPs. If people do have bridge tap wiring, then it's definitely the cause.... if they don't, then that's obvious, and NBN wouldn't "lie" about that, as the lie would be obvious. It's possible that there's no such wiring, but something show up on the diagnostic which looks like that..... in that case the tech attending will find it (unless he's not a very good tech, uh oh).
davewantsmoore Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Kaynin said: One option is to change ISP. I have had FTTH for 6 years and the first ISP I used was Exetel - unheard of at the time. Anyway, after about 4 years of awesome speeds (90+Mbps 24/7) I noticed changes and the speeds declined, as well as becoming erratic. This coincided with the customer base at Exetel increasing significantly (now in our estate everyone is on Exetel). I think the service with Exetel has started to become strangled with more customers. This is different situation. Drop-outs and changing sync speed on a DSL service (as opposed to a change in download speed) .... are a hardware thing. The only thing changing ISPs will do is get better/worse customer service (ie. they'll be better or worse at knowing what to tell the customer, and what to say to, or expect from NBNCo). 1
davewantsmoore Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, MrC said: possibly let down by managers and executives making decisions to allocate bandwith ? OK - You need to understand whether this is either: a) a change in the speed you modem is able to connect to the node at. b) your modem still connects to the node at the same speed .... but the download speed has slowed. Given that you have "drop outs" (I assume confirmed by your ISP as actual dropouts) and NBN diagnostics see what they see .... then it's (A). A has nothing to do with the ISP allocating bandwidth, or any such like thing. The ISP has no control over the part...it's all NBN. If it's B .... then changing ISPs could help .... and the technician will be very unlikely to help (although there is the mystery of the bridge taps showing up on the diagnostics).... by the letter of the law, if there's no problem, you should end up paying for the technican (NBN will charge your ISP, who will charge you) .... but at this stage, NBN hasn't started charging yet and is still absorbing it - as too many people are logging incorrect faults, and the gazillions of people who would get charged would be too much bad press. 7 hours ago, MrC said: I can only assume that your previous ISP decided not to allocate enough bandwith as time progressed? Exetel are known to be quite aggressive with their bandwidth management. They were really one of the first small player to compete on a big scale, so they had to be quite ruthless. 5 hours ago, MrC said: Was there a particular configuration of this router? Do any settings have to be changed if you changed your ISP? You may be just asking out of general interest ..... but in your case, none of these things are likely to help. Assuming you have no bridge tapped wiring .... then the tech will gather more info, and work out what is wrong. When the NBN to their diagnostic, they can hear your modem/router, and so they should be able to comment to you whether or not it is harming you performance. Otherwise you shouldn't expect it an issue. Especially knowing you previously had 50/20 going fine.
MrC Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 Thanks Dave for your informative advice. I think I need to wait until I get a technician to size up what is happening on my side of the fence.
davewantsmoore Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 Ignoring the "bridge tap wiring" mystery for a bit .... there could be noise sources in your (or even your neighbours) property causing interference ..... although your susceptibility to this in practice depends on your wiring and where it goes. Things like pumps, aircon, solar inverters, motors, ethernet over power adapters..... basically anything radiating noise which isn't of a "gaussian distribution". VDSL uses the whole spectrum from nearly down at audible frequencies up to 30mhz... So just about anything can affect it. The best thing you can do is have good wiring, direct from where the telephone line enters your house, right into the modem .... but it sounds like you already have that (?!?!)
larry42 Posted November 10, 2018 Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) we used to use adsl for our house, but we are 3-4km from the nearest exchange, and our connection would often change during rainy weather due to water in the pit up the street we used to 10-12 Mbps DL speed, and 0.5 Mbps UL speed , this was really frustrating and with only a couple of houses downstream of the problem pit, it was unlikely to get fixed. I tried getting the house wiring upgraded, but it didnt help as we were told it was already wired to a very high level. Can you get HFC ? That helped us a lot.... With NBN coming i decided to move to HFC, as we were in a hfc/nbn area, so that the NBN transfer would be seemless (which it was) we eventually changed over to telstra HFC on their speedboost plan and got 90-100Mbps DL speed and 1-1.5 Mbps UL speed, i was annoyed with myself that i took so long to move to HFC we switched to NBN telstra last year and now we get a stable 90Mbps DL speed and and 35 Mbps UL speed, so quite happy with NBN and HFC, we can easily stream 4K netflix and have ps4 and xbox one and pc's all gaming at the same time. Even the ipad pro get 80Mbps speed Edited November 18, 2018 by larry2 new info
larry42 Posted November 10, 2018 Posted November 10, 2018 plus the got the latest telstra modem last year, and it includes sim card internet, so if ever the HFC network has an outage we get internet via a simcard in the modem quite useful for when there have been some outages
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted November 10, 2018 Posted November 10, 2018 Yep. Change to Telstra. I've tried about a million ISPs over the years. Telstra is the most expensive, but they deliver what they promise to deliver. Since I've been connected to cable (soon to be HFC under NBN), Tesltra have increased my download limits (to infinity) and doubled my download speed (to 50Mb/s) without me requesting and without increased cost. Drop-outs are rare and interruptions have been similarly rare. 1
LHC Posted November 11, 2018 Posted November 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: Yep. Change to Telstra. I've tried about a million ISPs over the years. Telstra is the most expensive, but they deliver what they promise to deliver. Since I've been connected to cable (soon to be HFC under NBN), Tesltra have increased my download limits (to infinity) and doubled my download speed (to 50Mb/s) without me requesting and without increased cost. Drop-outs are rare and interruptions have been similarly rare. I think you got lucky with regards to Telstra delivering. According to this official ACCC survey of RSP/ISP performance Telstra falls behind their competitors in terms of delivering their plan download speed. https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/ACCC - Measuring Broadband Australia - Report 2 - July 2018.pdf In a Choice Magazine customer satisfaction survey of ISP, Telstra falls below average in customer satisfaction. That survey didn't even include Aussie Broadband. But I am glad you enjoyed good services from Telstra though. 3
davewantsmoore Posted November 11, 2018 Posted November 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: Yep. Change to Telstra. Changing ISPs will have zero bearing on the problem described in the original post. Unless the problem has been compounded by poor customer service. eg. the ISP (retailer) is not dealing with their wholesaler (NBN) well, and/or mis-communicating information to the customer. That is a very common problem - but the suggestion to change to Telstra in that situation is not a good one, as Telstra are known for some of the poorest performance in that regard..... but (to be fair) sometimes, it is the luck of the draw as to who at the ISP answers the phone.
davewantsmoore Posted November 11, 2018 Posted November 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, LHC said: I think you got lucky with regards to Telstra Indeed. 32 minutes ago, LHC said: delivering. According to this official ACCC survey of RSP/ISP performance Telstra falls behind their competitors in terms of delivering their plan download speed Let's be very clear that the problem in this thread (based on what has been described) is very very unlikely to be a situation where the network between the ISP and the customer (ie. the NBN) is working fine.... but the ISP has decided not to fill it to capacity. ... but actually a case of: The circuit between the ISP and the customer (ie. the NBN) has a "problem". It's a common issue that the former is true (ISP is choosing to deliver less) .... and also common that the later is incorrectly assumed to be the fault (ie. the "NBN is the problem"). But unlikely in this case.
MrC Posted November 15, 2018 Author Posted November 15, 2018 Ok ... the update. A technician sent by iiNET visited yesterday as promised and spent over 2 hours at my residence. It was nice to report that he was an Australian techie and he explained what he was going to do and was very helpful. First he tested what speed I was getting to the 'Madison' - which is the speed from the node to the box outside my house installed by Telstra when my house was built in 2011. He reported that it was receiving a respectable 52 Mbps from the node that was 600 m from my residence. Ok ... decent speed from the node. Then we checked the cable from the Madison to the my smart-wiring hub ... hmmm it was degrading the signal speed significantly. This is the cable that would be in my roof cavity to the hub which is then hard wired to my iiNET modem in the study. Luckily he found that they left a 'spare' wire from the Madison, so in changing over to that, it increased the speed from 38-39 up to 45 Mbps. So in summary it appears that for some reason, the Cat6 cable in my roof had decided to play up and interfere with the speed/stability of my connection. The technician said that a beam may be impinging on the cable (expansion/contraction) or that rodents had eaten into the cable. I said that I have not heard or know of any rodent activity. The technician says to keep an eye on things for a while, before I send someone into the roof cavity to see what is up with the cabling. In the 24 hours since, I am satisifed (no dropouts) and the speed is a solid 45 Mbps. So at this point I am going to consider the case 'resolved'. A big tick to the technician for his courteous and lucid explanations. So I am a happy customer, satisfied that it is not an NBN fault, but that the complexities of cabling and other components are in play. 2
Batty Posted November 15, 2018 Posted November 15, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 8:25 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: Yep. Change to Telstra. I've tried about a million ISPs over the years. Telstra is the most expensive, but they deliver what they promise to deliver. Since I've been connected to cable (soon to be HFC under NBN), Tesltra have increased my download limits (to infinity) and doubled my download speed (to 50Mb/s) without me requesting and without increased cost. Drop-outs are rare and interruptions have been similarly rare. I have had the same experience, but yet to move to NBN.
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