Subwoofer down to 20hz or as close as possible

[Guest niterida]

Looking for a sub that can get as close as possible to 20hz for as little cash as possible. I already have 4 identical subs that sound amazing but barely get down to 30hz.

My setup is Marantz SR7012 AVR, older Mordaunt Short speakers in an 11.1 Auro3D/Atmos layout and 4 Pioneer S-W200 subs in a dedicated theatre.

So looking for one ( or 2 ?) more to complement the system with that extra deep feeling, but the catch is I only have around $600 to spend and I live in remote(ish) country WA so I can't go and audition them before I buy.

Given my meagre budget I am also restricted to 2nd hand (which nearly all of my gear is anyway). The biggest problem I am having is there a re heaps of subs for sale on Gumtree and eBay but it is time consuming looking up their specs and reviews every time I see one that looks like it might be suitable. And there are so many conflicting reviews on each one too.

 

So does anyone know of any subs that can do what I want and that may be available on the 2nd hand market in my range ??

 

On my watchlists so far :

 

Aaron Sub240

Paradigm DSP3100

Paradigm PDR-8 v.3

Kris Seismix 1

Klipsch KSW-15

Martin Logan Dynamo 700

PSB 6i

PSB 5i

Velodyne CHTR12

Sonance Sub10 (x2)

B&W ASW500

Accusiund Reference Series 8.6 XD

Richter Thor Mk1

etc

 

Any of these any good ?

[Guest]

 to the forum.

 

Can you please provide a sketch of your room, with dimensions, and where the subs are located. You may be able to improve the bass by measuring the room bass response, playing around with sub locations and using DSP.

[Monkeyboi]

If you are after the low frequency "feeling" for HT can I suggest tactile transducers?  Fit them to the frame of your listening chair and power them up with a cheap Class D amp. You aren't going to be worried about the distortion, but you will find that they certainly provide that ultra deep bass feel of earthquakes, impacts and explosions.

 

These - http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/tt25-16-puck-tactile-transducer-mini-bass-shaker.html are under $24 each and can be sourced from an Aussie supplier

 

In practical music there is not much below 30Hz for most material.  Keep your existing subs to provide the audible content and let the tactile transducers do the rest.  Most subs just chuff air at very low frequencies anyway.  Just my 2c worth.

 

As @Snoopy8 suggested.  Try repositioning one or more of the subs within your listening room to see if you can augment the output.  Just bear in mind that you may end up boosting the bass output but it may make music sound boomy and unpleasant to listen to.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Edited January 10, 2019 by Monkeyboi

[Guest niterida]

I had thought about Butt-Shakers but dismissed them as "not something I want" for no other reason than I don't want them.

My room is built to Sepmeyer golden ratios and the subs are in the corners and sound great so there is no issue there. I haven't done any measurements yet (will be getting MiniDSP and mic etc ASAP) but REW Room Sim shows a very flat response where they are - in fact it doesn't really matter I do in RoomSim the response looks pretty good. I have moved them around in the room and that seems to confirm RoomSim findings, as there is very little difference no matter where they are.

 

Basically I just want the walls to explode to match the movie explosions

Edited January 10, 2019 by niterida

[Guest]

Good you know about REW, please get a UMIK-1 microphone. You have done homework on theoretical responses but you may room modes and modal ringing. Have you read this:

https://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/

 

[Monkeyboi]

9 minutes ago, niterida said:

I had thought about Butt-Shakers but dismissed them as "not something I want" for no other reason than I don't want them.

My room is built to Sepmeyer golden ratios and the subs are in the corners and sound great so there is no issue there. I haven't done any measurements yet (will be getting MiniDSP and mic etc ASAP) but REW Room Sim shows a very flat response where they are - in fact it doesn't really matter I do in RoomSim the response looks pretty good. I have moved them around in the room and that seems to confirm RoomSim findings, as there is very little difference no matter where they are.

 

Basically I just want the walls to explode to match the movie explosions

Here you go.  Buy one of these.  http://www.equinoxaudio.com.au/subs/e3.html

Just 2.5dB down at 10Hz and capable of hearing damaging SPLs.

 

Cheers,

Alan R

[Monkeyboi]

10 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Good you know about REW, please get a UMIK-1 microphone. You have done homework on theoretical responses but you may room modes and modal ringing. Have you read this:

https://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/

 

Thanks @Snoopy8 for posting the link.  It's a good read. 

 

Cheers,

Alan R.

[Guest niterida]

20 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Good you know about REW, please get a UMIK-1 microphone. You have done homework on theoretical responses but you may room modes and modal ringing. Have you read this:

https://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/

 

I have read a few bass setup guides but nothing as detailed as that

 

I am happy with my setup but it just doesn't go low enough - I am really only after advice on which subs will go low within my meagre budget - if possible.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, niterida said:

I have read a few bass setup guides but nothing as detailed as that

 

I am happy with my setup but it just doesn't go low enough - I am really only after advice on which subs will go low within my meagre budget - if possible.

 

Cheers

It is good to know you have done the homework because most first time posters are often in the dark. Yes, subs which go down lower will help, but without measuring, you will be guessing. 

 

One option is a used SVS SB-1000. Getting a sub which goes down to 20 Hz with your limited budget will be a challenge. Good luck with your hunt.

[jamiebosco]

If you're handy you could possibly DIY a pair of subs (and grab a 2ndhand PA amp) for a bit over $600(ish) that will reach down to 20hz with authority.

 

Personally I'd grab an SVS PB-1000 while they are on special  (over budget - I know) and save up and grab a 2nd whenever possible

That way you'll have guaranteed performance and 5 years warranty

[Guest niterida]

35 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

Personally I'd grab an SVS PB-1000 while they are on special 

Where from and how much ??

 

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

One option is a used SVS SB-1000. .

I haven't come across any SVS within my budget on the second hand market yet

 

But I just read a review of the PB1000 - wow sounds like the sub to look out for.

 

Although I have just found an SGR 15" monster almost local to me and SGR reckon it will get down close to 20hz - any thoughts ?

Edited January 10, 2019 by niterida

[hopefullguy]

while it sounds you have everything needed to place a 5TH sub? in your room from recent sales and current svs pb/sb1000's on gumtree you are not being realistic... sorry. new they are around $870 on special but free delivery?

 

even if you find one under $600 you need it sent to your remote? location with out testing. yes they have a good reputation but if you do some research you will find a great deal of users upgrade to the pb2000 or higher. it seems you want a chest thumping pressurised room from a spend of $600 but i doubt it will as you expect from 1xpb1000.. but we do not know the size/config of your room.

 

if you cant go the pb2000 (maybe 2?) or other make equivalent it wont be worth it imo. this is based on many readings and some limited experience with the pb2000.

 

maybe build your own..

 

i also was going to suggest bass shakers.. the dayton bst-1. a member recently sold 4 with a plate amp.. but thats not your thing i guess.

[Guest niterida]

27 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

while it sounds you have everything needed to place a 5TH sub? in your room from recent sales and current svs pb/sb1000's on gumtree you are not being realistic... sorry. new they are around $870 on special but free delivery?

 

even if you find one under $600 you need it sent to your remote? location with out testing. yes they have a good reputation but if you do some research you will find a great deal of users upgrade to the pb2000 or higher. it seems you want a chest thumping pressurised room from a spend of $600 but i doubt it will as you expect from 1xpb1000.. but we do not know the size/config of your room.

 

if you cant go the pb2000 (maybe 2?) or other make equivalent it wont be worth it imo. this is based on many readings and some limited experience with the pb2000.

 

maybe build your own..

 

i also was going to suggest bass shakers.. the dayton bst-1. a member recently sold 4 with a plate amp.. but thats not your thing i guess.

I am being realistic - I didn't say I wanted an SVS for $600 - I said I wanted a sub that can go as low as close as possible to 20hz for around $600. Although there is on available for $790 negotiable - maybe get it for $700 or less if I can find the sale price somewhere ?

 

For a known brand sub that will get me to 20hz I would stretch the budget..........

 

Came across Sunfire subs just now - like the look (and sound from reviews) of the HRS10 or 2 x HRS8 and they are almost within reach

 

I will build my own one day in readiness for building my new home with a standalone theatre - but I have just finished building my current home (with 4.3 x 6.3 x 2.7 theatre - approx. 75m3/2600cuft) so that will be a couple of years off yet.

[Silent Screamer]

6 minutes ago, niterida said:

I will build my own one day in readiness for building my new home with a standalone theatre - but I have just finished building my current home (with 4.3 x 6.3 x 2.7 theatre - approx. 75m3/2600cuft) so that will be a couple of years off yet.

I may be reading this wrong... but your room may not be big enough to play 20Hz.

https://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm

Plugging in 6.3m length, 4.3m width, 2.7m high I show that will only get you down to 27.3Hz

Up to 54Hz is all yellow so it probably wouldn't be great below that.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Silent Screamer

[Ittaku]

9 minutes ago, Silent Screamer said:

I may be reading this wrong... but your room may not be big enough to play 20Hz.

https://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm

Plugging in 6.3m length, 4.3m width, 2.7m high I show that will only get you down to 27.3Hz

Up to 54Hz is all yellow so it probably wouldn't be great below that.

I'm really sorry to see this misconception perpetuated. There is no such thing as a room too small to play any particular frequency. The room modes become more of a problem as it gets smaller, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to recreate any particular frequencies.

[Silent Screamer]

7 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

I'm really sorry to see this misconception perpetuated. There is no such thing as a room too small to play any particular frequency. The room modes become more of a problem as it gets smaller, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to recreate any particular frequencies.

Well since you are in an educating mood care to explain more?

BTW I am not saying that you're not wrong, because I am only going off what the calculator says. It could be wrong.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Silent Screamer

[pond44]

Just two questions, Does your AMP go down to 20 Hz? and probably a silly question but have you got the phase correct on all speakers including your mains?

[andyr]

43 minutes ago, Silent Screamer said:

I may be reading this wrong... but your room may not be big enough to play 20Hz.

https://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm

Plugging in 6.3m length, 4.3m width, 2.7m high I show that will only get you down to 27.3Hz

Up to 54Hz is all yellow so it probably wouldn't be great below that.

 

Shirley, SS, as a room mode calculator, the s/sheet is telling you that the lowest 'room mode' is 27Hz.

 

As Con said - that is different to the lowest bass frequency which you will be able to hear in that room.

 

Let me add to what Con said ... my 2x 15" sealed subs deliver a perfectly hearable 16Hz in a room smaller than Niterida's (5.8m x 3.6m x 2.7m).

 

Andy

 

[Silent Screamer]

1 minute ago, andyr said:

 

Shirley, SS, as a room mode calculator, the s/sheet is telling you that the lowest 'room mode' is 27Hz.

 

As Con said - that is different to the lowest bass frequency which you will be able to hear in that room.

 

Let me add to what Con said ... my 2x 15" sealed subs deliver a perfectly hearable 16Hz in a room smaller than Niterida's (5.8m x 3.6m x 2.7m).

 

Andy

 

And you have measured 16Hz in that room?

[andyr]

Just now, Silent Screamer said:

And you have measured 16Hz in that room?

 

Yes, as a matter of fact I have - using REW. 

 

Here is the overall FR up to 100Hz:

 

 

 

 

Andy

 

[Silent Screamer]

Just now, andyr said:

 

Yes, as a matter of fact I have - using REW. 

 

Here is the overall FR up to 100Hz:

 

 

 

 

Andy

 

Well that put's that myth to bed (and some of my room concerns).

[Guest niterida]

So back on topic - anybody have thoughts on Sunrise HSR subs ?

or any of these :

Aaron Sub240

Paradigm DSP3100

Paradigm PDR-8 v.3

Kris Seismix 1

Klipsch KSW-15

Martin Logan Dynamo 700

PSB 6i

PSB 5i

Velodyne CHTR12

Sonance Sub10 (x2)

B&W ASW500

Accusound Reference Series 8.6 XD

Richter Thor Mk1

Velodyne SPL100

 

Or any others to look out for ?

 

And where are the SVS subs available from for $870 ?

 

[Guest DarkNark]

@niterida $859

 

http://www.clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2949&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0fydwszi3wIVSSUrCh3jmwilEAYYASABEgLH1PD_BwE

[Silent Screamer]

8 minutes ago, niterida said:

So back on topic -

Excuse me for trying to help, I won't make that mistake again.

[Guest]

https://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=57&products_id=2950

For $10 more than the SB-1000, the PB-1000 will go sightly lower

 

But if you can really, really extend the budget, the PB-2000 will go down to 19 Hz

https://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=57&products_id=2946

 

Occasionally, these appear in the Classifieds but you have to be quick!