Owen Y Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 PS. @Mr Thorens - your SP-10 looks mint @Chanh - so does yours. If your record clamp-weight is v heavy, I would consider using a grip-type clamp (like the Goldmund type). The SP-10 bearing shaft is tipped with a plastic thrust plate, resting upon a small (~7mm dia) round steel ball. The latter eventually wears an indentation into the thrust pad. The SP-10 platter of course, itself weighs 2.9kg, but if your clamp weight is significant.... just a thought Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ 1
Guest Mr Thorens Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 Just playing Dave Grusin Sheffield Lab today for the first time on the SP10ii. Best I've ever heard it especially the width and depth, level of detail and total tonal control, transients and micro dynamics have speed and the bass has slam. Strings have real texture. Just sounds real. I've heard this as a test disc on several other TTs over the years including Thorens TD321, Technics SL120, and a heavy expensive Acoustic Solid deck. The SP10ii is clearly a winner. It's also quieter than I remember any of the above with a level of blackness and acoustic space.
A9X Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 I'm a long time SP10 (and DD in general) fan. I have 3 of them and at least 2 others in parts. Originally I bought a dozen from a radio station and sold most of them. Before I moved back down here my player had an Albert Porter inspired plinth that was exceptionally heavy. It was a ply laminate and there were lots of large cavities internally; these were sealed with resin then filled with 'goop', a mineral oil, sand and lead shot combination. It had 2 arms, a Townhend Excaliber (with trough) and an SME310. I'd planned to add another, but it (plinth) was sold before I moved. On my to do list is to build a replacement with the original 2 arms and the newly acquired SME111. Speakers need to be finished first though. I left belt drives after I bought a Gyro and my missus complained bout the pitch instability. She could hear it clear as a bell on sustained notes. Perfect pitch is a mongrel to live with I suppose. I still have the Gyro, Rock, 401 and a few Denon DDs.
Steve M Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 On 15/04/2019 at 10:57 AM, Chanh said: Another follower....., Technics SP10 that is. For me the timing and attack are simply jaw dropping. Awesome set-up Chanh! No doubt the exquisite Kuzma 4 Point tonearm and Accuphase AC3 MC cartridge is making a strong contribution to the sound of your turntable. Cheers, Steve. 1
Peter_F Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 On 22/03/2019 at 9:01 AM, aussievintage said: Love the simplicity of the table AND that tone arm. What type is it? It's a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm. Here's the link for the latest versions, https://www.triplanar.com/tonearm.html I can only imagine just how good they are!
kwtools Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 SOMETHING DIFFERENT: This project started in 2008 and originally this something different was my prototype but I was/am so pleased eventually ended up as my final in 2009. I visually copied the original plinth of the SP10 and I designed and made the rest of the plinth. The basic of the arm is the TRANS-Fi Terminator but I have completely redesigned and remanufacture to suit the SP10 plinth and improvised to ease of setting up and normal usage. The only bit I retained from the original is the horizontal sliding bar. IMV many users found linear track is not as good as compared to the normal arms and I can comprehend being a mechanical designer. I have also redesigned and made many arm wands (terminator) over the years. This allows me to have as many cartridges as I can afford and the original TRANS-Fi intelligent concept facilitates arm wand changes (with the cartridge already attached prior) in less than 5 minutes, jokes aside. The azimuth can be pre-set and is a matter of keeping a record for the VTA to be very easily adjusted via the digital calliper to within 0.01mm. The SP10 have been fully re-capped and some mechanical modifications. I used to have access to super precision 5 axis CNC machining centres and the above was a breeze to achieve. 3
Owen Y Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 Hi @kwtools - I use a Terminator myself. https://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/2017/04/15/terminator-tonearm-new-arm-mount/ And have made provision to install it on the SP-10: Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/
kwtools Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 Hi Owen, Yes I did saw that link years after my creation of the mounting base. Whether you notice the arm mounting screw still rely on a single screw. Most with some mechanical engineering experiences will know when one tightens a screw it is unavoidable that the piece the screw is supposed to hold will move minutely. That minute movement is enough to cause the Terminator to move/rotate upon that one screw whilst being tightens. As I was (retired) a mechanical designer besides other precision professional experiences I thought out of a concept that enables me to fine tune the whole Terminator forward or backward and radially as close to the theoretical line/track of the stylus movement from the outer track tangential point towards the centre of the TT spindle. Now I am talking about stylus moving from first track to the last track of the record within less than 0.05 mm conservatively. That is within less than 0.05 mm to the recording cutting head of the lathe. As we are aiming for the stylus to travel from the tangential point at the first track to the centre of the TT spindle close to perfect as anything less defeat the purpose of linear tracking otherwise conventional arms would (IMO) be a better compromise in performance and setting up. My creation allows me to just place the whole Terminator on the plinth and tighten four screws that whole the arm base onto the plinth. I then adjust radially and slide forward or backward over the line of the HFN template without the frustration of try and error that I experienced prior to my creation unless a “close enough is good enough” attitude is adopted. I am very happy with this set up but in some occasion I find it too accurate for some recordings and my other two TT with normal radial arms manage to camouflage the defects. In general I use the SP10 with the Terminator as often as those other two TT. Cheers, Keng.
kwtools Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 Hi Owen, One other important point I like to mention is IMO geometrically a slight tracking set up error in a normal radial arm may result some compromises in part of the tracking and usually the first and/or last track is close to acceptable. With the tracking error of a Linear Track arm is a different story altogether. It’s either gradually getting bad all the way from first track to the last or gradually getting worse from the last track. Cheers, Keng.
Owen Y Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 Thanks @kwtools - our Terminator arm base was originally developed on & intended for the TransFi Salvation TT (single hole fixing, slate base) Yes but good point re structural stability (my son, who did the machining, is a Mech Eng & I deal with structural building work daily in my real job .. So we're on the same page here. One of the reasons too why we 'pocketed' the underside. Actually IMHO, the main sonic advantage of linear trackers, is not more accurate tracking but elimination of the need for anti-skating, no bias side-forces - you can hear that in the hugely improved tracking stability, dynamic / pitch stabilty. BTW IMHO again the main drawback in the Terminator design is the short arm-wand - greater variation in stylus VTA with record thickness, is obvious & a nuisance. (Sorry, don't mean to digress this thread from the orig topic - back to normal (SP-10) transmission now ) Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/
andyr Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Owen Y said: Actually IMHO, the main sonic advantage of linear trackers, is not more accurate tracking but elimination of the need for anti-skating, no bias side-forces - you can hear that in the hugely improved tracking stability, dynamic / pitch stability. Absolutely! 8 minutes ago, Owen Y said: BTW IMHO again the main drawback in the Terminator design is the short arm-wand - greater variation in stylus VTA with record thickness, is obvious & a nuisance. Is VTA difficult to adjust? Andy
kwtools Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 3 hours ago, andyr said: Absolutely! Is VTA difficult to adjust? Andy Just rotate the black knob at the top clockwise or counter and if you have the digital caliper option you'll be able an adjust the height within .01mm. Keng.
andyr Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, kwtools said: Just rotate the black knob at the top clockwise or counter and if you have the digital caliper option you'll be able an adjust the height within .01mm. Keng. Thank you, Keng. That makes it easy to account for LP thickness differences! Andy
Owen Y Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) Sorry @andyr - poor choice of words. The Terminator's Effective Length is only around 75mm, so you can appreciate that variations on record thickness will generate much more dramatic changes in VTA/SRA. Fortunately, the Terminator is designed for convenient VTA adjustment. @kwtools - (back on topic ) what 'mechanical modifications' did you feel necessary to make to your SP-10? Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ Edited April 18, 2019 by Owen Y
kwtools Posted April 18, 2019 Posted April 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, Owen Y said: Sorry @andyr - poor choice of words. The Terminator's Effective Length is only around 75mm, so you can appreciate that variations on record thickness will generate much more dramatic changes in VTA/SRA. Fortunately, the Terminator is designed for convenient VTA adjustment. @kwtools - (back on topic ) what 'mechanical modifications' did you feel necessary to make to your SP-10? Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ As mentioned earlier I did make up new arm wands and they are 120 mm long. The weird looking thing next is the first generation Trans-Fi knife edge arm that I bought before its call Terminator. Can't remember much (for a 75yo) on the mechanical changes as it was done many years ago, did remember replacing the black plastic ring under the big thick greyish rubber ring with three shorter segments of 7000 series Alu to reduce internal motor resonance/vibration to ensure the motor runs quieter. I happen to have made a spare set just in case a new SP10 joins my collection. Those three pieces next to the black ring were the replacements for the black ring. Attached photos.
Owen Y Posted April 19, 2019 Posted April 19, 2019 I agree, the way the SP-10's high torque DD motor is screw-fixed down to its chassis frame, is less than structurally ideal... (i) 4 small M4 machine screws. (ii) A black plastic guide for the mechanical brake interfaces between these motor screws & the SP-10 chassis frame Your metal replacement ring pcs should be an improvement. (Of course you might argue that the oroginal softer plastic material might provide some motor isolation.) Terminator wand: The longer wand will help relieve the VTA sensitivity issue with this tonearm.. Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/
Owen Y Posted April 19, 2019 Posted April 19, 2019 PS @kwtools - I see you have/hadd a Decca cartrdige fitted to your Terminator. I am currently using a London Decca. Oops, off topic again, sorry Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/
kwtools Posted April 19, 2019 Posted April 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, Owen Y said: PS @kwtools - I see you have/hadd a Decca cartrdige fitted to your Terminator. I am currently using a London Decca. Oops, off topic again, sorry Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ Yes I learn about Decca from Lenco Heaven and Decca Club forums and now a Decca lover. I have got a Decca Super Gold and 2 Decca C4E all had been rebuilt by John Wright. With the right synergy of arm and TT they perform (IME) magic and I like Decca Cartridges very much. I am not comparing as there is no end to it and I do have other good cartridges like Kansui and Ortofon A90 on my other TT. Cheers, Keng.
Guest Mr Thorens Posted April 20, 2019 Posted April 20, 2019 First project for this Easter complete. New heavy plinth made from 4 layers Bunnings specrite oak utility panel cut to size glued together sanded and coated with clear varnish. Sounds much better than the box plinth especially in the bass department.
aussievintage Posted April 20, 2019 Posted April 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mr Thorens said: First project for this Easter complete. New heavy plinth made from 4 layers Bunnings specrite oak utility panel cut to size glued together sanded and coated with clear varnish. Sounds much better than the box plinth especially in the bass department. Nice. I like the bare wood look about it. Giving me the urge to build a new plinth!
kwtools Posted April 20, 2019 Posted April 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, aussievintage said: Nice. I like the bare wood look about it. Giving me the urge to build a new plinth! Try it with Birch Ply
plastercasts Posted April 21, 2019 Posted April 21, 2019 Here's my sp10 in goldenage plinth and 12" univector. Would like some suggestions for service in Melbourne the 45 button is a bit dicky. and was hoping to get it polished up and top plate brushed aswell as having the start button replaced. Cheers Tommy 4
A9X Posted April 21, 2019 Posted April 21, 2019 On 19/04/2019 at 6:55 PM, Owen Y said: I am currently using a London Decca. If God had a cartridge, it would be a Decca London. 1
Owen Y Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 On 19/04/2019 at 9:25 PM, kwtools said: Yes I learn about Decca from Lenco Heaven and Decca Club forums and now a Decca lover. I have got a Decca Super Gold and 2 Decca C4E all had been rebuilt by John Wright. With the right synergy of arm and TT they perform (IME) magic and I like Decca Cartridges very much. I am not comparing as there is no end to it and I do have other good cartridges like Kansui and Ortofon A90 on my other TT. Cheers, Keng. I was previously using a Kansui too (Apologies, off topic again.) Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/
kwtools Posted April 27, 2019 Posted April 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Owen Y said: I was previously using a Kansui too (Apologies, off topic again.) Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ With the super high prices of new cartridges released each year (IMO) the Kansui is very good value for money provided one likes it’s sound. My Kansui is staying with me for a long long time. Cheers, Keng.
Recommended Posts