The Decline Of Classical Music

[Spinnergeoff]

Australian composer Ross Edwards (born 1943) has written a lot of enjoyable orchestral music that comes under the rather too broad "classical" heading.

Ross Edwards (composer) - Wikipedia

Back when I had a music shop (1990s) there were quite a few 20th Century composers who people came looking for, apart from the minimalists like Glass, Cage and Adams.

Stravinsky, Respighi, Kodaly, Bartok, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Poulenc, Rachmaninov, Copland, Gershwin, Britten - all of them had at least some easily accessible works.

Saying that the earlier giants of composition, going back hundreds of years, are now irrelevant or "too hard, too long" is misguided. It would, if it becomes the victim of cancel culture, rob people of the finest, most accomplished works.

The key word is culture. In Europe there has been a long tradition of maintaining orchestras, teaching new generations to play instruments to the highest standards, and having concerts as often as possible.

If there is a decline in the popularity of fine music, be it orchestral, chamber, or opera, it's a failure of education and cultural nurture, not a failure of the products.

Measuring a "decline" purely by current sales versus those of another earlier period has some relevance but isn't automatically proof of a general decline.

Living in Sydney's outer suburbs certainly doesn't help one to attend live performances either. The difficulty and time taken to travel too and from venues in the city area make it much less attractive than it might be for someone to pop into town on a ferry that takes just 15-25 minutes and requires no parking arrangements.

So, at home we are working through some operas on DVD, playing on a 60" screen and with audio via the SuBsonic Fusion Three speakers system.

The LP and CD collections are substantial, and gaps can be filled with access to streaming services.

I still believe that getting into some good introductory works pays dividends. There's only so many times you can replay the pop faves. There's so much excellent "classical" music that you'll never run out. I'll attach a couple of CD covers that might point the way to some very lively, not too serious, in some cases demo quality music, and three of the best string quartets for easy enjoyment.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Spinnergeoff

[LHC]

Saw this on the internet recently - a video showing a two years old boy reacting emotionally to his sister playing the Moonlight Sonata. That boy is now 6 and have started his own piano lessons. For some people it is just natural. 

 

 

[ZEN MISTER]

That was so touching. I felt all those unnamed swirling emotions the little bloke was  feeling. When the music bypasses your critical senses and spears straight to your soul, it’s both a blessing and a curse.

Bless his beautiful soul.

Billy

[LHC]

This youtube video offers some practical and doable solutions to make classical music (concerts) more interesting and accessible to the wider audience and the younger generation. 

 

 

[kiwilistener]

Most of this video I don't agree with or only partially agree with at best.

At the risk of being run out of town on a rocket, from my perspective classical music is by and large boring. 

That doesn't mean I can't appreciate a passage of classical music but having gone out with an opera singer in my younger days and been married to a classical concert pianist for over 40 years I can say with some surety that even my wife, although she still enjoys classical, almost never plays the music on the stereo or the piano.

What I do like is the blending of modern music with a classical orchestra. Think Days of future past, or Metallica with the San Franciso Symphony Orchestra, to name a couple of options.
With the current smartphone generation, we have now, you need a good deal more than just education to entice the younger ones to even listen to an orchestral piece apart from a movie soundtrack they may have heard.

I see a large amount of YouTube videos for example with younger folk exploring what for those of us from the 60's and 70's, would call the soundtrack to our lives. I have yet to come across any delving into the classical world in a similar way, although I'm sure there are some.
I think that in most cases the reaction is that there's a sameness to classical music that the younger generation hears but it is by and large non relatable, and they don't find engaging in comparison to today's music. Hardly surprising really as a lot of the classical music my wife knows, and loves was produced decades or centuries ago in a vastly different world. I don't think classical is ever going to disappear, but it may become more of a specialty subject learnt as part of music school curriculums.

[POV]

I have been travelling internationally a lot recently for my business and decided to have a red hot crack at getting into classical music, something that I've always been curious about but never really known how to approach.  I stumbled on the 'Story of Classical' 9 episode podcast series available on Apple Podcast app and listened to them all across a couple of long haul flights.  Each episode takes you through an era of classical music, with some interesting insights into the historical significance of the period in terms of music and more.  I would highly recomend this for relative newcomers or inexperienced classical listeners, as not only is it thoroughly entertaining an informative, it also provides a heap of suggestions on what to listen to as a gateway into each era.

 

I'm grateful to the producers of this podcast, as I think they've found an excellent medium for making classical music feel more accessible for those that don't know where or how to start.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-story-of-classical/id1727191760

[kiwilistener]

5 hours ago, POV said:

I have been travelling internationally a lot recently for my business and decided to have a red hot crack at getting into classical music, something that I've always been curious about but never really known how to approach.  I stumbled on the 'Story of Classical' 9 episode podcast series available on Apple Podcast app and listened to them all across a couple of long haul flights.  Each episode takes you through an era of classical music, with some interesting insights into the historical significance of the period in terms of music and more.  I would highly recomend this for relative newcomers or inexperienced classical listeners, as not only is it thoroughly entertaining an informative, it also provides a heap of suggestions on what to listen to as a gateway into each era.

 

I'm grateful to the producers of this podcast, as I think they've found an excellent medium for making classical music feel more accessible for those that don't know where or how to start.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-story-of-classical/id1727191760

Okay for those that have an Apple subscription. Unfortunately, the vast majority of us don't. Any other sources for this that you are aware of?

[POV]

2 minutes ago, kiwilistener said:

Okay for those that have an Apple subscription. Unfortunately, the vast majority of us don't. Any other sources for this that you are aware of?

You think the vast majority of people don’t have access to an Apple device?

 

In any event, I doubt it’s available elsewhere given it’s an Apple production.

[kiwilistener]

13 hours ago, POV said:

You think the vast majority of people don’t have access to an Apple device?

 

No, I said the majority of people don't or (are unlikely to) have an Apple subscription. Considering in most cases unless you have an Apple device having an Apple subscription is less likely. I would suggest that most people are more likely to have a Spotify account even if it is just a free one.

 

13 hours ago, POV said:

 

In any event, I doubt it’s available elsewhere given it’s an Apple production.

Which makes it even less likely that people are going to be aware or even interested in the series, which is a shame as it sounds like it would be a good listen, but in todays highly commercial orientated world I guess thats to be expected.

Edited April 14, 2024 by kiwilistener

[POV]

9 minutes ago, kiwilistener said:

 

No, I said the majority of people don't or (are unlikely to) have an Apple subscription. Considering in most cases unless you have an Apple device having an Apple subscription is less likely. I would suggest that most people are more likely to have a Spotify account even if it is just a free one.

 

Which makes it even less likely that people are going to be aware or even interested in the series, which is a shame as it sounds like it would be a good listen, but in todays highly commercial orientated world I guess thats to be expected.

OK then, was just making a suggestion to folks for something relevant to listen to, not initiate a discussion about your frustration with commercial operations of technology and content production companies!

 

 

[Keith_W]

On 14/04/2024 at 9:29 AM, kiwilistener said:

Most of this video I don't agree with or only partially agree with at best.

At the risk of being run out of town on a rocket, from my perspective classical music is by and large boring. 

That doesn't mean I can't appreciate a passage of classical music but having gone out with an opera singer in my younger days and been married to a classical concert pianist for over 40 years I can say with some surety that even my wife, although she still enjoys classical, almost never plays the music on the stereo or the piano.

What I do like is the blending of modern music with a classical orchestra. Think Days of future past, or Metallica with the San Franciso Symphony Orchestra, to name a couple of options.
With the current smartphone generation, we have now, you need a good deal more than just education to entice the younger ones to even listen to an orchestral piece apart from a movie soundtrack they may have heard.

I see a large amount of YouTube videos for example with younger folk exploring what for those of us from the 60's and 70's, would call the soundtrack to our lives. I have yet to come across any delving into the classical world in a similar way, although I'm sure there are some.
I think that in most cases the reaction is that there's a sameness to classical music that the younger generation hears but it is by and large non relatable, and they don't find engaging in comparison to today's music. Hardly surprising really as a lot of the classical music my wife knows, and loves was produced decades or centuries ago in a vastly different world. I don't think classical is ever going to disappear, but it may become more of a specialty subject learnt as part of music school curriculums.

 

Nobody is going to argue with your preference. But I don't think that the younger generation are losing interest in classical music. Anecdotally, I notice quite a few younger people turning up to concerts. I would prefer to see an actual study looking at the demographics of classical music listeners though. I am sure that the big streaming platforms already have this data, all they need to do is publish it. 

 

What YouTube offers you to watch is tailored to your interests and probably also to your Google searches. For example, when I was researching vacuum cleaners, I started seeing vacuum cleaner reviews pop up on my YouTube suggested videos. 

 

As for the "sameness" of classical music, I could hardly disagree more. I think that pop music has a certain sameness. There is a world of difference between Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Khachaturian - all 3 are Soviet era composers who had different reactions to Soviet oppression. One wrote thinly veiled music criticising Stalin (and got in trouble for it), one wrote borderline satirical music with double meanings, and the third largely escaped persecution from the cultural authorities. There are also vast differences between Richard Strauss and Richard Wagner, another two composers of similar background and lived in the same era. One was a traditionalist, the other a modernist. 

 

And of course, part of the fascination with classical music is how abstract ideas like politics, religion, wars, and even massacres can be portrayed in music without any words. Some music is so abstract that it means anything that you bring to it - it is the antithesis of pop music which says "look at me!". Classical music is a mirror that says "look at you". I wonder why all those Taylor Swift fans don't get tired of her constant ****ing about her ex-boyfriends. 

[kiwilistener]

2 hours ago, Keith_W said:

 

Nobody is going to argue with your preference. But I don't think that the younger generation are losing interest in classical music. Anecdotally, I notice quite a few younger people turning up to concerts. I would prefer to see an actual study looking at the demographics of classical music listeners though. I am sure that the big streaming platforms already have this data, all they need to do is publish it. 

Yes some cold hard statistics would be useful.

 

2 hours ago, Keith_W said:

 

What YouTube offers you to watch is tailored to your interests and probably also to your Google searches. For example, when I was researching vacuum cleaners, I started seeing vacuum cleaner reviews pop up on my YouTube suggested videos. 

 

Yes I just bought a nice new 34inch curved monitor. Facebook, YouTube and several forums I frequent all started pushing monitor ads ,.

2 hours ago, Keith_W said:

 

As for the "sameness" of classical music, I could hardly disagree more. I think that pop music has a certain sameness. There is a world of difference between Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Khachaturian - all 3 are Soviet era composers who had different reactions to Soviet oppression. One wrote thinly veiled music criticising Stalin (and got in trouble for it), one wrote borderline satirical music with double meanings, and the third largely escaped persecution from the cultural authorities. There are also vast differences between Richard Strauss and Richard Wagner, another two composers of similar background and lived in the same era. One was a traditionalist, the other a modernist. 

 

As I originally said I tend to find classical somewhat uninspiring. If you are a student of the Soviet era, I can see how the above would be of interest. Personally, in my 20's at the time I was far more interested in living as long as I could considering the general feeling in world politics at the time was WW3 was inevitable. Most of my friends were hopeful we would make into our 40's by the end of the twentieth century. Giving consideration to anything or anyone Russian at the time wasn't something to dwell on. Fast forward to today we are now seeing the rise of fascism yet again.

Given all that the younger generation currently have to deal with I would not be surprised that the interest in classical music and its interpretation doesn't rank highly with them. There is an immediacy with modern music that's more relatable to how people live today. 

2 hours ago, Keith_W said:

And of course, part of the fascination with classical music is how abstract ideas like politics, religion, wars, and even massacres can be portrayed in music without any words. Some music is so abstract that it means anything that you bring to it - it is the antithesis of pop music which says "look at me!". Classical music is a mirror that says "look at you".

 

 

I wonder why all those Taylor Swift fans don't get tired of her constant ****ing about her ex-boyfriends. 

Perhaps Taylor Swifts fans can relate to that in a very real sense. I remember my daughter having conversations with her friends about ex-boyfriends. Perhaps that's more relatable than something that's more esoteric.

Edited April 15, 2024 by kiwilistener

[PositivelyMusicallyGeared]

A few years ago, and they might still be doing it, Sydney Trains had a couple of speaker boxes, all well secured with chains, broadcasting classical music at the Blacktown station, the purpose of which, as Sydney Trains claims, was to drive possible young delinquents away.

 

I can't recall what exactly was the selection of music at the time: Was it the orderly Bach, or a furious Beethoven?

 

Of course the police were also there during the day, as reinforcement. At night, the boxes play on all by themselves.

 

Anyhow, I don't think classical music will die, it'll always find a role to play, and there will always be people in this world who find it pull at their heartstrings.

 

[legselevens]

What about game soundtracks? The young typically love their games, even people in their middle age these days. Game sound tracks could be considered a close relative of classical music.

[LHC]

On 15/04/2024 at 10:08 PM, legselevens said:

What about game soundtracks? The young typically love their games, even people in their middle age these days. Game sound tracks could be considered a close relative of classical music.

 

That has been tried for a number of years now but I do not know if it has been successful. Orchestras do put on some concerts based on game music, for example Final Fantasy. The ABC Classic FM also has a show called "Game Show" that is dedicated to soundtracks and orchestral scores from digital gaming.

 

 

[LHC]

Some years ago the company Classical Kids made a series of children audiobooks for each of the major classical composers and I thought they were an innovative way to introduce classical pieces and their context to the young. The audiobook on Beethoven was made into an excellent short film below.

 

 

[padde23]

If anyone in Melbourne is interested in going to an MSO concert please shoot me a PM and I will organise some free tickets for you - classical music is best experienced live

 

 

Edited May 14, 2024 by padde23

[LHC]

During today's ABC Classic radio morning show they ran an informal phone survey of listeners' opinion on Andre Rieu. Result were that 48% of classical music listeners approved of him and his contribution to popularising classical music, while 52% did not. Some very strong opinions/comments either way. Some people found him to be a superb violinist with excellent bow techniques. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, LHC said:

During today's ABC Classic radio morning show they ran an informal phone survey of listeners' opinion on Andre Rieu. Result were that 48% of classical music listeners approved of him and his contribution to popularising classical music, while 52% did not. Some very strong opinions/comments either way. Some people found him to be a superb violinist with excellent bow techniques. 

Not at all surprised about the survey results.  Andre Rieu would offend the traditionalists but has brought joy to people who would otherwise not listen to classical music. My only BD concert showed how well he has established a profitable niche.  Hamming things up is not for me but good on him.

 

Ironically, one of my first CDs was Serenata, with its remarkable nightingale. Did not realise until about 10 years ago, that he was the conductor and lead of the Maastricht Saloon Orchestra!  So, you can say that the start of my hifi journey had Andre Rieu in it !!!   

[LHC]

Recent post on Two Set Violin's youtube channel suggests the duo will cease posting content there. They are/were great communicators and educators of classical music and I hope they will move on to other worthwhile related projects. 

 

[LHC]

We just returned from a holiday in Japan and made an effort to attend a live classical music concert in Tokyo. Based on this limited experience I cannot say that classical music is in decline in Japan.

 

From what I've read (https://classicalvoiceamerica.org/2023/12/13/japanese-orchestras-polished-and-thriving-rival-best-in-the-west/) ahead of our travel classical music seems to be as popular as ever in Japan with a vibrant music scene and 1,600 orchestras of one sort or another (mostly amateur and school ventures) across the country. "The epicenter of orchestral life in Japan resides, by a huge margin, in Tokyo, which boasts eight full-time, full-size, fully professional orchestras — more than any other city in the world." We managed to secure tickets to a subscription concert of the New Japan Philharmonic at the Sumida Triphony Hall, with young violinist/soloist Fumiaki Miura, and guest conductor/soloist Julian Rachlin. An enjoyable program of Bach's Double Violin Concerto, Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto, and Beethoven's Symphony No. 7. The concert tickets were sold out a few weeks after public release.

 

A few personal observations following this Japanese experience:

• The New Japan Philharmonic while not the most renowned of the Top Eight Tokyo Orchestras is certainly of world standard in their performance.
• (Compared to Australians) the Japanese concert audience were extremely still and dead quiet during the performance, most managed to hold off their coughs until breaks in music.
• The Japanese audience also has a more evenly distributed age profile; Australian concert goers are heavily skewed towards the very seniors. The Japanese also dressed much more casually to their concerts (it was a Saturday afternoon concert).
• In the end conductor Rachlin led the orchestra out for an (prepared) orchestral encore which was a rare experience for me.

 

[Ars Paart]

Orchestral music, opera, choir, chamber music etc has always been elitist. Likewise, there has always been music in any society that appeals to the general populace. Sometimes there is even some crossover. Nothing is really different now except for the tsunami of money for the popular music genres. 

 

IMO anything of quality - in any genre - will endure, and even if not always at the forefront of peoples' experience it will be ripe for rediscovery. The junk will have a fleeting popularity, then it will disappear and nobody will care. 

[Spinnergeoff]

High-end hifi is elitist but that doesn't bother most people here.

[Ars Paart]

1 hour ago, Spinnergeoff said:

High-end hifi is elitist but that doesn't bother most people here.

True enough, and you also get a similar type of pearl-clutching with respect to the fact that the yoof are content to listen to crappy audio.  'Twas always thus.