Kind0m Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Ok, i need your help. Ive currently got a Pioneer LX70 receiver and while its very good i have always planned to move to a pre/power amp setup. So i now have a decision to make. Just a bit of background, ive currently got a Cambridge Audio 540D V2 DVD Player, Cambridge Audio 740C on order and will be getting a Cambridge Audio 640T V2 tuner. Also have a HDMI HTPC/Server, PS3 and Belkin Power Conditioner. Speakers are/will be... B&W 685 for rear, B&W 683 fronts, B&W HTM61 Center and B&W ASW610 Sub Note: This is only about the power amp ill be making a decision about the preamp later, but that will be a Rotel as well Option 1 Rotel RMB-1095 5x200w Power Amp. This is a beast, 200w x 5 channels at 0.03%. This is great because its all in 1 form factor and would slip into my system well. This means i will be perfect for my fronts but just a little to much for my rears so no going full tit. Option 2 Rotel RMB-1075 5x120w & Rotel RB1080 2x200w this means that i can have my fronts running on a separate power amp and the rears and centre on the other. This also gives me a 7 channel setup rather than a 5. However it does mean another component so ill need to be getting a custom rack. For my CD player/tuner this would be perfect, a dedicated 2 channel amp, and then 5.1 or 7.1 when i need it. Questions: Can you run a 120w and 200w amp together? If im watching a movie and turn everything up is there going to be differences in volume because of the difference in watts? What is your opinion on this, or do you have another option thanks for your time
tkr001 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 or in option 2 replace the 1075 with a 1066 providing 3x150w in bridged mode? But if it were me I would go with option 1
Guest Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Option 3 Rotel RMB-1077. 100w x7 ICEpower Class D. The new Rotel 15-series should eventually make its way to NZ as well. http://www.cepro.com/article/rotel_unveils_new_flagship_15_series/
Dr_seuss25 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 michael w;75105 wrote: Option 3 Rotel RMB-1077. 100w x7 ICEpower Class D. The new Rotel 15-series should eventually make its way to NZ as well. http://www.cepro.com/article/rotel_unveils_new_flagship_15_series/ Is the ICE power really worth IT? Especially as its Class D?
Dr_seuss25 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Would it be better just to run the Pioneer for centre and rears and get the 2 CH Rotel for fronts? That way you have the power for the 200W fronts and you rely on the Reciever to drive the lower wattage centre and rears?
Kind0m Posted October 10, 2008 Author Posted October 10, 2008 Dr_seuss25;75109 wrote: Would it be better just to run the Pioneer for centre and rears and get the 2 CH Rotel for fronts? That way you have the power for the 200W fronts and you rely on the Reciever to drive the lower wattage centre and rears? Yeah i thought of that, and thats how i would run it until i got the rest of my speakers. The Pioneer is defiantly a great receiver but i do want to move fully to a pre/power setup. Ive herd different things about Class D amps, not is that they arnt as good as A or B or AB.
Ernie1553552694 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Kind0m;75110 wrote: Yeah i thought of that, and thats how i would run it until i got the rest of my speakers. The Pioneer is defiantly a great receiver but i do want to move fully to a pre/power setup. Ive herd different things about Class D amps, not is that they arnt as good as A or B or AB. Just different. D class are not as fruity in the mid-range, which might work well for the B&Ws.
jbl crazzy Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 hi yes the pioneer is a good amp, if you are only trying to get more power to your main speakers the B&W 683 fronts i think are bi pollar and the pioneer amp has a assianable channel for bi amping which should give you 2 channels of 140w total 280w a side and 140 centre and rear but in (MHO) you can never have too much power
Kind0m Posted October 10, 2008 Author Posted October 10, 2008 jbl crazzy;75117 wrote: hi yes the pioneer is a good amp, if you are only trying to get more power to your main speakers the B&W 683 fronts i think are bi pollar and the pioneer amp has a assianable channel for bi amping which should give you 2 channels of 140w total 280w a side and 140 centre and rear but in (MHO) you can never have too much power Im surprised that there is enough power left in the national grid for my system after you turn on yours.... well done, very impressive. Im just not sure about keeping the Pioneer, something just dosnt feel right about have everything in one box, i would rather split it out. I like the look of the RSP-1098 Processor but not sure about getting something that dosnt decode HD sound formats, do you think that should be a concern?
jbl crazzy Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 as said (IMHO) i think the LX70 is a great amp even i am staying with the pioneer as i have the VSX AX10i receiver in the lounge and my self up gradeing to the new pioneer SC 90tx which is the modle ubove yours, this is what i have done in my lounge system with the AX10 have bi amped it to run my new JBL L7s giving me about 200w top and 200w on the bottom, if it wasent for HD i would not upgrade from the AX10 but unfortunately yes to keep up with blue ray and HD i think you need it if you are into HT
Dr_seuss25 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Kind0m;75110 wrote: Yeah i thought of that, and thats how i would run it until i got the rest of my speakers. The Pioneer is defiantly a great receiver but i do want to move fully to a pre/power setup. Ive herd different things about Class D amps, not is that they arnt as good as A or B or AB. I think you are best to get the speaker setup you want before adjusting the amplifier setup based off a theoretical setup. Things change and you may find you dont need the extra power before you have it. We all know in Home Theatre that the centre channel is the most important, secondly the 2 fronts, then the rears and Sub might be on a par(in terms of definition). Get the theatre sorted first then start touching up the power plant.
Kind0m Posted October 10, 2008 Author Posted October 10, 2008 jbl crazzy;75120 wrote: as said (IMHO) i think the LX70 is a great amp even i am staying with the pioneer as i have the VSX AX10i receiver in the lounge and my self up gradeing to the new pioneer SC 90tx which is the modle ubove yours, this is what i have done in my lounge system with the AX10 have bi amped it to run my new JBL L7s giving me about 200w top and 200w on the bottom, if it wasent for HD i would not upgrade from the AX10 but unfortunately yes to keep up with blue ray and HD i think you need it if you are into HT WOW, ive just looked at the SC-LX90, whats the RRP on one of those here in NZ?
Movienut Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Do it properly and get a Perreaux 200W + 200W of real sweet power. Perfect for music, overkill ( meaning you won't have to upgrade again ) for Home Theatre, about $2500 at Listinening Post Chch. Use it for your fronts. Use the Pioneer for yor centre and rears. If you want to make your centre speaker come to life then get a decent quality one like Image's Centrestage, the difference will make you go through your favourite movie collection again. Run the speaker as small but use the best speaker cable you can afford for your 3 fronts. Too much hype on these new sound formats, they make average systems sound better but if you have a very very good system then even normal dvd's - DD or DTS, will sound amazing all the time, you will find you can listen to louder volumes without being annoyed and the sound is super clear and more lifelike. My personal opinion of course.
jbl crazzy Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Kind0m;75146 wrote: WOW, ive just looked at the SC-LX90, whats the RRP on one of those here in NZ? yes they are a big step up from the lx70 they retail for around 12K if you had one theres no need for any external power amps for most speakers unless you are crazzy like me and there is ony 10 channels of power bi amp the fronts centre and rears woooow thats cooking and nothing wrong with haveing it all in one box http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/SC-09TX?tab=B
jbl crazzy Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 heres a quick piture of the pioneer Attached files
Kind0m Posted October 11, 2008 Author Posted October 11, 2008 So do you think there would be a problem with having 2 power amps at different watts? What would happen if you turn the system up with the fronts at 200w and the backs at 120w?
Stuzzo1553552685 Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 The auto-calibration routine will balance the outputs of the various components/ amplifiers at the start. As for varying the volume I guess home theatre receivers generally have different power outputs between front and back anyway. Having some similarity of centre and L & R channel levels might be sensible.
Electra Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Kind0m;75221 wrote: So do you think there would be a problem with having 2 power amps at different watts? What would happen if you turn the system up with the fronts at 200w and the backs at 120w? Dont worry about that at all. Remember, double the power and you only get 3dB.. So you will need to adjust the levels to the speakers on the bigger amp by about 2 - 3dB. Any receiver or pre/processor will do this easily enough. You will probably find that the main speakers sensitivity is higher than that of the center or surrounds anyway, so will need to adjust the levels for that also. As for the RSP1098, my findings were that its a gimmick and you can get better sound from the 1069, for a couple of thousand less. There is a 15 series pre amp coming out eventually, it has inbuilt HD audio codecs, but I don't have issues using either PCM or analogue for HD audio with my 1069. The 1069 has better DAC's, a better analogue bypass and has HDMI switching / up conversion to. My advice? Get the RB1080 now for your mains, and a 1069 to run it. Then, when you get the budget to buy more speakers, get the 1075 or whatever it has turned into by then ( just note that the new Rotel look is more of a Plinius look, so the 15 series wont look the same as the 10 series - which is a pity to my eyes! )
Gopal Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I agree with Too tall. No problem at all to have different wattage amps for fronts and surrounds. Wouldn't worry about HD audio decoding at all as there is effectively no difference between decoding to PCM in the player and sending that to the processor anyways. Class D Rotel amps are great value for money and will provide great control over those B&W speakers too.
Kind0m Posted October 12, 2008 Author Posted October 12, 2008 Gopal;75237 wrote: I agree with Too tall. No problem at all to have different wattage amps for fronts and surrounds. Wouldn't worry about HD audio decoding at all as there is effectively no difference between decoding to PCM in the player and sending that to the processor anyways. Class D Rotel amps are great value for money and will provide great control over those B&W speakers too. Been a Eastern HiFi Employee..., do you know if the new Rotel 15 series are to replace the 10 series or will they continue with them both. Sounds like the plan is to get 2 amps, 1 for the fronts and the other for the rest, would give me better control.
Zero1553552727 Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Ive used multiple rotel power amps in a home theatre setup and currently use 2 rb1080's in a two channel setup. Ive used 600 series b&ws in both setups. My question for you is - do you watch movies/tv more or listen to 2 channel music more? I had a big home theatre setup with 9 channels of rotel amplification (bi amping all speakers except rears) and two b&w powered subs. But i found i just wasnt sitting down to watch enough dvd's at full tit to really warrent it. My tastes changed more towards 2 channel music and tv watching so i changed my system for a 2 channel one. Trying to do both home theatre and 2 channel is always a compromise and you should only do it if really do use both equally - just my two cents. If you can afford it a dedicated pre/power setup will always beat a reciever. Btw Rotels and b&w's are a great match. A) Get the best b&w sub you can afford to match your other b&w speakers. B) Make sure all your power amplification is the same too (at least the same brand) so it is seamless. C) Relax and enjoy.
jakenz Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Some Rotel Class D first impressions may be of interest to the OP. I bought a Rotel RMB-1085 (Class D) 100w x 5 amplifier on the weekend to attach to the pre-outs on my Yamaha RX-V661 receiver. Busy weekend meant I snatched only a brief listen under less than ideal circumstances, but first impressions are it is a rock solid 100w. A dramatic jump over the Yamaha (90w) - much more dynamic, with tighter and with punchy bass in particular. Seemed to generate a much better and more nuanced surround field - Pink Floyd's ticking clocks on their Dark Side of the Moon SACD via my PS3 was seriously impressive. Too early to comment properly on this but vs my LFD Integrated amp (60w toroidal) it has a quite different presentation - again, more punchy and dynamic - though perhaps (and quite understandably) lacking a bit of the LFD's subtlety. It's certainly very early days, but so far I must say it seems terrific bang for the buck ($1799 RRP with a bit off for cash) so don't discount the class D's from the get-go - have a listen alongside the conventional Rotel amps.
Gopal Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Kind0m;75251 wrote: Been a Eastern HiFi Employee..., do you know if the new Rotel 15 series are to replace the 10 series or will they continue with them both. Sounds like the plan is to get 2 amps, 1 for the fronts and the other for the rest, would give me better control. My understanding is that the 15 series will be in addition to the 10 series... RB1080 for the fronts with a bridged up RMB1066 for centre and rears would be a great way to go. Otherwise try the Class D models. As JakeNZ says, the Class D Rotels have alot of control and dynamics and the bass is very punchy. Good times for home theatre.
Kind0m Posted October 13, 2008 Author Posted October 13, 2008 Zero;75319 wrote: Ive used multiple rotel power amps in a home theatre setup and currently use 2 rb1080's in a two channel setup. Ive used 600 series b&ws in both setups. My question for you is - do you watch movies/tv more or listen to 2 channel music more? I had a big home theatre setup with 9 channels of rotel amplification (bi amping all speakers except rears) and two b&w powered subs. But i found i just wasnt sitting down to watch enough dvd's at full tit to really warrent it. My tastes changed more towards 2 channel music and tv watching so i changed my system for a 2 channel one. Trying to do both home theatre and 2 channel is always a compromise and you should only do it if really do use both equally - just my two cents. If you can afford it a dedicated pre/power setup will always beat a reciever. Btw Rotels and b&w's are a great match. A) Get the best b&w sub you can afford to match your other b&w speakers. B) Make sure all your power amplification is the same too (at least the same brand) so it is seamless. C) Relax and enjoy. Great, thanks. i can honestly say that its 50/50 with music and movies, i move movies and watch them all the time, but if the system dosnt have a movie on it then its playing music, im getting into it more and more so ordered the Cambridge Audio 740C Upsampling CD player because its sound was amazing. I like the idea of the RMB-1066 and bridging it for 3 x 150w, but like the idea more of having a 7 channel setup (RB1080 2x200w & RMB-1075 5x120w) even though 7.1 channel isnt really mainstream its still nice to know that my system could handle it.
Tony Davey Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Don't necessarily match the sub to the other speakers, not nearly as important and you could miss out on some quality bass (not saying that B&W are bad, just that it may pay to broaden your search). REL are well reknowned for good subs that are exceptionally musical Velodyne are arguably the kings of subs in most price brackets (CHT range is their base range through to the SPL series and the DD series at the top) - an 1812 may be overkill though M&K are supposedly good for movies, unsure of music. never really heard them properly so can't say either way. In the right room, a 7.1 set up is just wonderful. I miss my old HT, but 5.1 is "enough" for now.... Sen
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