Super Mustud Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Over the Christmas and New Year period, Mustud became very impatient about the bluntness of kitchen knives in the Mustud household. This is despite having purchased Mrs Mustud some Wusthof knives about 20 years ago, together with a honing steel, and more recently, a diamond sharpening stone (something I now know to be foolish for the grades of steel used in Wusthof knives due to the diamond grit becoming embedded into the knife itself and making sharpening even more problematic). To assist Mrs Mustud with her kitchen gear, I had also repeatedly suggested that she set aside 10 minutes every evening to sharpen her knives after she has finished washing up and before she goes to do the ironing while I settle down with a nice whisky and listen to music, watch telly, or read an intellectually stimulating book. All to no benefit. It was as though I was wasting my time. So, I spent quite a few evenings checking up on knives (did you know that Shun knives are bevelled at 15 degrees per side while European knives generally use 20 degrees?), diverted for a few days into steel technology and the different grades of steel used by various manufacturers, and indeed the intricacies of the various standards themselves. Following this, I ordered a whole swag of new knives (from several U.S.suppliers, so no GST for Mustud, and poor Mr Harvey will not be troubled by the Mustud cutlery adventure), and then settled down to a few more days learning about knife sharpening and looking at a number of knife enthusiast forums. All very interesting stuff. I will not bore you with details of kitchen knives (although I found it quite a fascinating topic), but rather tell you about my desire for Mrs Mustud to learn how to mirror finish sharpen her knives. A bit like this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]27479[/ATTACH] I am thinking of buying the Edge Pro Apex Knife Sharpener for Mrs Mustud for our wedding anniversary. http://www.accuratesharp.com/edge-pro.htm I am confident that this will solve the blunt knife issue on an ongoing basis. Does anyone have experience with this machine? I have read the reviews and watched a number of videos on this sharpener and it all looks very exciting. From a sharp knife perspective, anyway. Looks a lot more foolproof than a number of other sharpeners, a quality I will point out to Mrs Mustud at the right time. Any knife aficianados out there?
Quark Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I am thinking of buying the Edge Pro Apex Knife Sharpener for Mrs Mustud for our wedding anniversary. Mustud, you are a seriously brave man! I know if I bought my SWMBO a knife sharpener for a wedding anniversary, I could never sleep well again (although a cricket box might be of some assistance)...
xtrachewy Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 [ATTACH=CONFIG]27481[/ATTACH] Edge In The Kitchen: The Ultimate Guide To Kitchen Knives-How To Buy Them, Keep Them Razor Sharp, And Use Them Like A Pro by Chad Ward The man is obsessive about knives (http://www.chadwrites.com/news-reviews/) - available from Borders Chadstone. Sharpening gets particular emphasis with different techniques and edge profiles for different brands and knife type. It includes MAC, Shun (?), Henckels, Wustof, F. Dick, Global, Victorinox, - the big names are covered and makes recommendations like budget champ = Victorinox. An excellent read for those that publicly (and secretly) love kitchen knives....
My Rantz Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Maybe Mrs Mustud may get a plan for one of these knives - one of which you may not find favourable
xtrachewy Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Maybe Mrs Mustud may get a plan for one of these knives - one of which you may not find favourable But imagine if Mrs John Wayne Bobbitt had used a blunt knife instead ?? [ATTACH=CONFIG]27482[/ATTACH] Edited January 5, 2011 by xtrachewy
Keith_W Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Hi Mustud, Japanese knives are ground to 17 deg and Western knives are ground to 22.5 deg. Yes, I knew that Why do I know? Because, I need to hold my knife at the correct angle when I am using my Shun whetstone knife sharpener: ... however the contraption you linked to seems to be far superior to my simple sharpener. To be honest, the whetstone is a bit of a PITA to use. Also, knives like Wusthof's have a finger guard that makes it harder to sharpen that area of the knife (Japanese knives lack this finger guard). I am not sure how well a Wusthof would do on a contraption like that.
Super Mustud Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 Maybe Mrs Mustud may get a plan for one of these knives - one of which you may not find favourable Mrs Mustud worships me.
Guest Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Mrs Mustud worships me. That will be at an Alter with a knife in her hand . Cheers
MrHorsepower Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Hey Mustud that is one serious sharpener ,I have Global knives at home and use a "LANSKY" to keep them sharp. Now I covet the Edge Pro Apex (oh no upgraditis) the Lansky works quite well but not as refined as this. I use it on all my knives,utility and folding etc and constantly walk around with a BALD patch on my left arm:p
Super Mustud Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 Hi Mustud, Japanese knives are ground to 17 deg and Western knives are ground to 22.5 deg. Yes, I knew that Why do I know? Because, I need to hold my knife at the correct angle when I am using my Shun whetstone knife sharpener: ... however the contraption you linked to seems to be far superior to my simple sharpener. To be honest, the whetstone is a bit of a PITA to use. Also, knives like Wusthof's have a finger guard that makes it harder to sharpen that area of the knife (Japanese knives lack this finger guard). I am not sure how well a Wusthof would do on a contraption like that. I have decided to stick with the European style (softer steel, greater angle on bevel) for a number of reasons. It is the overall package that drives the decision for me. That, plus the fact that Mrs Mustud throws her knives onto the floor in frustration quite often. The Japanese knives would not withstand this clumsiness. I will be instructing Mrs Mustud to create double bevels on all our knives. The first at 18 degrees and then the cutting edge at the European angle. After sharpening, she is to use the polishing tapes until the knife edges shine like my shoes. These days Wusthof make several styles, not all with finger guards. Actually the sharpener I am interested in would cope with the finger guard with no problem because there is no clamping restriction on the blade as with some other apparati. By the way, Shun knives are for pretentious vinyl users, not serious cooks. The media cooks only use them if they are sponsored by Shun. The specialist hand made Japanese knives are the ones to get. I read all that in several U.S. forums, so it must be true, as the forums were moderated.
Super Mustud Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 Hey Mustud that is one serious sharpener ,I have Global knives at home and use a "LANSKY" to keep them sharp. Now I covet the Edge Pro Apex (oh no upgraditis) the Lansky works quite well but not as refined as this. I use it on all my knives,utility and folding etc and constantly walk around with a BALD patch on my left arm:p Mrs Mustud would think that the Lansky rod is to stake up her African violets. Sometimes she is not very smart.
xtrachewy Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) The specialist Japanese knives are the bomb and stupidly priced (got one from my time working in Japan) - made with the art (or bulldust) and disciple of a katana but honestly most cooks would use knives to cut hard bit of old cheese or hack at a piece of frozen bacon...we are not talking artistry here unless you plan to use a specialized Japanese knife to cut sushi. I strongly suspect Victorinox is the most used commerical kitchen knife (if not also for butchery). Nigella uses Furi, Jamie uses Wustoff (actually several brands), Neil Perry is almost certainly MAC or Shun.....doesn't matter much except pride of ownership and enjoyment. Edited January 5, 2011 by xtrachewy
Super Mustud Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 The specialist Japanese knives are the bomb and stupidly priced (got one from my time working in Japan) - made with the art (or bulldust) and disciple of a katana but honestly most cooks would use kitchen knives to cut cheese or hack at a piece of frozen bacon...I strongly suspect Victorinox is the most used commerical kitchen knife (if not also for butchery). Nigella uses Furi, Jamie uses Wustoff (actually several brands), Neil Perry is almost certainly MAC or Shun.....doesn't matter much except pride of ownership and enjoyment. Just to be serious for a moment. Pretty much all of the above is indeed the general consensus on a lot of knife forums and professional articles I have read. But Mrs Mustud is not getting Victorinox. Her adoration of Mr Mustud has its rewards.
xtrachewy Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Public correction: Jamie uses MAC now, Neil uses Shun.... I use Stanley (LOL) to prepare pork crackle
Rockford Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I just get mine professionally sharpened. (I only really use 3 knives so it costs about $30 every few months - for the amount I use them) http://www.chefsarmoury.com/knife-sharpening-service/info_18.html There are plenty of places that do them, even King of Knives have their own guys that go around (not the instore staff)
Bunyip Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Hi Mustud, I indeed do enjoy a sharp knife - life is to short to be driven nuts by a blunt one! I have tried a huge variety of sharpeners over the years, most of them bollocks. Nothing could beat a decent sharpening stone, which I have had for years. I too have a 20 year old set of Wusthofs. The problem being that I don't always have the time to sit down and sharpen 8 knives the instant my wife says they're blunt. I'm old school, and like doing things manually rather than getting the electric version, however I realized it was time to take it to the next level. So last year I suggested she get me for Christmas, this: It was the result of online research as well as reading the excellent Cooks Illustrated magazine, which reviewed different electric sharpeners, and this came up tops. I love it. So simple, so quick, and very sharp knives all the time. Its built like a tank and i suspect I'll have it for years to come. I can definitely recommend it.
raptor Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I have a reasonable collection of knives, I started off with Wustoff that I've had for about 30 years but over the last few years I've converted to Japanese which I use pretty much all of the time now. I have a variety of brands, Mac, Shun, Kanetsune, Hamaguri and I like the Kanetsune the most, but they are expensive. I've bought most of them through Chef's Armoury mentioned earlier in the thread and like Keith I use a waterstone for sharpening. I wasn't happy with my results however, so I attended a sharpening masterclass run by CA and since then I am very pleased with my results. Perhaps you can give Mrs. M an afternoon of training rather than a new machine Mustud.
The Expanding Man Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Any knife aficianados out there? Not for knives, but I have spent the last 5 months teaching myself to shave with cut-throat razors. There is a ritual with these devices - careful honing on a various grit stones (natural Belgium coticule being my favourite) and at least 60 strokes on a strop before every shave. Once perfected, you get the smoothest, gentlest shave and hopefully your ear lobes are still intact.
Guest Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Not for knives, but I have spent the last 5 months teaching myself to shave with cut-throat razors.There is a ritual with these devices - careful honing on a various grit stones (natural Belgium coticule being my favourite) and at least 60 strokes on a strop before every shave. Once perfected, you get the smoothest, gentlest shave and hopefully your ear lobes are still intact. .....stuck in the middle with you....
pelorus32 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) G'day Mustud, I went through almost exactly this about 3 years ago. Good european knives, never sharp. So off I took them to get "professionally" sharpened. What a waste, the "professional" made an utter botch. So onto the interweb and then off to the shops. I bought 3 MAC knives - a beautiful big Deba, a Nakiri and a paring knife. These knives are not the "real deal" Japanese knife and they have some drawbacks - the Deba needed some remedial work on the back of the blade. However they are a great compromise. They get and stay very seriously sharp and they absolutely get the thumbs up from Madam P32. She loves the effortless way they painlessly cut to the bone so that the effusion of blood is the first sign that she has seriously wounded herself. On the subject of sharpening I tried the "Scary Sharp" system, it was scary and not so sharp. Then I bit the bullet and bought three waterstones and the result has been magical. Not hard to learn and a gentle touch is important. The one other thing I use is the MAC black ceramic sharpening rod. It's great for the double sided knives, not for the Deba. Filleting a king fish with the Deba is a revelation. The "snicking" noise as it finally removes the fillet is a thing of beauty. Madam P32 loves it! I hope Mrs Mustud is similarly impressed by your efforts. For a look at authentic Japanese knives try googling "watanabe blade". Edited January 5, 2011 by pelorus32 spacebar doesn't work and I can't spell
The Expanding Man Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 .....stuck in the middle with you.... I don't want to be Mr Pink.
Full Range Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I may be a bit off topic but I was thinking of purchasing a set of ceramic blade knives Are they better ?? Any advice - for or against ? FR
joz Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Have used Wustof for over 30 years now. Back in the earlier days they only had what was known as the Classic today and I still have most of them. Unfortunately the best way to keep them sharp is elbo grease and a wet stone,then a steel. Mine need some serious lovin atm. Though in recent years I did buy a Grand Prix model with a diamond steel.That combo stayed razor sharp for near two years without ever seeing a stone whilst seeing constant daily use in a commercial kitchen. Funny thing though its usually straight after sharpening that people cut themselves.Probably because the knives behave differently while gliding through food and sticking into the chopping boards.
Keith_W Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I may be a bit off topic but I was thinking of purchasing a set of ceramic blade knives Are they better ?? Any advice - for or against ? FR Ceramic knives will remain sharp forever, do not require sharpening, and do not need a honing rod. They are also sharper than steel knives. The downside is that these knives are brittle and will shatter easily. They can not be used to cut through bone, and should not even touch bone in case the edge gets chipped. If the edge gets chipped, it can act as a stress point and the whole knife can shatter through the chip. Obviously, they should never be dropped. They also feel different in the hand. Much lighter. May or may not be a minus for you - personally, I can not get used to the feel of the knife. Ceramic knives should really only be used for fruit and vegetables or solid pieces of meat.
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