Chinese amplifiers

[Berkel]

Hi all ; does anyone have experience with, or information about Chinese made amplifiers ?

Some years ago, I had a Spark integrated valve amp, which was very good. Sold it to a mate who still uses it.

I'm now thinking about  a SS amp from one of the suppliers who advertises " improved clones " of well known brands.

Any information would be gratefully received.

 

Dennis

[aussievintage]

The best of them are great, the worst, are garbage. Picking which is which is the trick.   If you can get a cheap one that's well made with good components, you get a bargain.

 

otoh, name brand  Asian electronics is the safe way to go.  An example I am familiar with - Consonance valve amps.  Very nicely made and good value.

[pete_mac]

There’s some info in this thread, including a DartZeel clone:

 

 

[Wimbo]

I've got a Yaqin MS12B that I use as a spare. Good line stage but wish the MM phono stage had a bit more gain. Other then that, a good Pre.

[audiofeline]

I recall being at my valve amp technician's, he was looking at a customer's Chinese valve amp.  While looking into it he explained that due to poor design and poor components, it was not repairable.  He added that in his (estimated 20 yrs experience) that it was the third valve amp he had written off. 

 

However, China is a huge country with growing wealth, and I'm sure there would be a very large audiophile market there.  So they would have to have some very well designed and manufactured equipment.  But some of it would also be rubbish, designed to rip-off westerners.

 

[Guest Muon N']

Think you may find that the cheapest stuff sold to the locals there could be even below what is sold to the over seas market.

 

They appear to cater to every market segment, and within those segments in the lower-mid end mostly there is a wide variation of quality.

 

There are some very nice brands out of china, that are very good design and build quality.

Of course there is also very cheap kit that is very poor in all areas, parts used, design, construction ect'.

[doogie44]

I think there are 2 streams of context here. One is 'cheaper' gear (a lot cheaper) from China, and the other is cloned design/cheaper gear from China. The cheaper gear I comment on below and the clone gear seems only to be marginally ahead of the cheaper stuff when it comes to results in the real world. Apparently you can't get a really great-sounding cheap Marantz Model 7 preamp, a Jadis amp or a DarTzeel amp after all. Wot a surprise.

 

By analogy, there are likewise some very good Chinese tubes available but you do pay a premium, and so you should. It's a quality process and takes a lot of know-how. The prices then approach those of other quality tubes in the world. The cheaper Chinese tubes are not worth buying IMO. I think this is starting to look like a pattern as China enters the club of developed nations, and of mature manufacturers of Hi-Fi. I hope this ethical pursuit of quality applies to other things like their manufacturing of foodstuffs and medicines, for the sake of the Chinese people.

 

I have found personally that the following Chinese brands are very acceptable, sonically and electronically:

 

YAQUIN -  generally middle-range stuff with good variety. I even like their tube buffer. One of their amps, the MC-100B,  forms the basis of significant upgrades for a local manufacturer - JLTI gear: 

https://www.customanalogue.com/jlti_el34.htm

 

LITTLE DOT  - terrific headphone OTL amps. Really good--I have the SE Mk4

 

and the magnificent LINE MAGNETIC (I have the 518ia 845 integrated and the 218ia mini EL-84 integrated): this is high end all the way

 

As someone has mentioned, Consonance have a good reputation; Melody likewise. AudioSpace too. I have not owned these amps. I am aware of a thriving small-scale manufacturing scene in Hong Kong and Taiwan; sometimes you catch a glimpse of such esoterica.

 

I am talking here about my experience of valve amps; the solid state/clone ones  I'm not familiar with.  My Lepy 25W amp ($20 delivered) actually did a decent job of driving my TV-speakers setup. A small Topping amp is still going strong. However, the inflated claims and reassurances of many manufacturers don't inspire confidence. Don't start me on specifications...(which are not met). 

 

I have not heard good reports about the cheaper valve amps because they 'might' aspire to a good circuit or an attractive variety of valve topology BUT their el cheapo transformers and overall poor soldering and grounding execution + the strong possibility of counterfeit parts means that you get what you pay for--not much!  One cheap Chinese valve preamp was found to have the glowing valve on top unattached electronically to the signal path!!

 

I would spend that money on a decent retro amp and have it done up, or spend more on a modern execution amp like Weston/Cymer/Primaluna (P. also made in China--but with fantastic, even unique quality control to avoid counterfeiting). I believe a German company makes Vincent amps in China too). I would particularly look very carefully at the Classifieds on SNA for the real bargains in buying amplifiers! I have wasted decent money in the past while trying to save it by buying too cheaply to be true...

 

SNA's own Mark Houston makes very good-sounding and reasonably-priced chip amps presumably using Chinese chips: http://retro-thermionic.blogspot.com/. I own his 80W chip amp with a 6N3 equivalent tube (WE396A) up front. Excellent. He speaks good English as well 

 

I did spend my money on Line Magnetic and am blissfully happy (as a most demanding customer). Their thrilling catalogue, retro ethos and brand ethics are a bulwark against the tide of cheap Chinese s**t clogging up the pages of eBay.

 

Just my 2c worth

[Al.M]

I have had this old integrated Spark (now Cayin) 530 KT88 50w 32kg tube amp since 1997 and it’s generally been OK from maintenance perspective though needed tuneups along the way. Paid $1400 back then from a local tube making guru who went to China and was astounded by how good value they were at the time compared to what was available so he brought a bunch of to Perth for sale plus several other models. 

 

Sound wise it is excellent and has enough drive, heaps of micro detail, great bass, very good 3 D imaging and great voicing. It blew away and still does any upper mid hifi amp and on the right speakers will keep up with a Pass Labs Aleph or F5, Krell KSA 50 or 50s and many others. 

 

The stock tubes kept blowing initially so swapped these for better, one resistor blew up like a fire cracker and a diode silently went also, but apart from that still good.   

 

Although it is integrated and sounds good enough it can be used with a good preamp like a Supratek tube and gets even better.

 

In the posted link above for China power amp clones I have reviewed my other purchases.

 

There seem to be similar offerings on the net from Cayin, Yaqin and Ming Da for around $1500-2000 and I have heard a few of them and they are very good. If practicalities and speaker matching of using such tube amps suit you it’s the easiest and cheapest way to get into lower hi end sound at least.

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Al.M

[Dankeshon]

Xindak and Music Angel?

I have no idea..

[JD1]

I have a Xindak 600e that I use as a power amp on the end of a Musical Fidelity M6pre. So far it seems to be good. It looks well made on the outside and I believe they are meant to be well made on the inside with quality parts. Makes my music sound good so that is the main thing. Only good things to say about it so far after 8 or so months. Be interested in others thoughts about their gear.

[Guest Muon N']

Yaqin sound OK, but the build quality an parts quality is poor IMO.

 

I had a MC-10L originally and ended up tossing all but the iron away and retained them and part of the board that takes care of power reg and bias. The rest went including the chassis.

 

But it did sound OK.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Muon N'

[Guest Muon N']

Compare to something like an older Ming Da.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Muon N'

[Mickstuh]

I had a Jungson amp with big blue meters - terrific.

And a Xindak preamp - also excellent.

Two Shanling SACD players – outstanding.

Dared, I'm told, are also good.

 

[aussievintage]

13 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

Compare to something like an older Ming Da.

 

 

Having worked on old Akai M7/8 valve equipment, despite the good reputation,  they were nowhere near as nicely made as these Chinese amps.

 

[Guest Muon N']

@aussievintage  Ah, that would be as old as me, or very close to it......same build quality too

 

But sounds better

[aussievintage]

6 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

@aussievintage  Ah, that would be as old as me, or very close to it......same build quality too

 

But sounds better

You and I would both score be 3 out of 3 by those criteria.

[Berkel]

Thanks for all the replies and information.

How about current Chinese SS amps ? I really don't have room for a valve amp.

 

Dennis

[aussievintage]

2 hours ago, Berkel said:

Thanks for all the replies and information.

How about current Chinese SS amps ? I really don't have room for a valve amp.

 

Dennis

At the risk of sparking another argument discussion, I am very partial to the class D amps you can get cheaply.  Again, a bit of a gamble to buy straight off Alibaba or eBay, but  there are resellers in Australia

 

I have one of these  http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/digitech-50w-channel-t-amp/  and I am really impressed.  I use it daily even through my Osborn speakers and it sounds great.

Edited October 22, 2019 by aussievintage

[Berkel]

Thanks. I really don't understand what a Class D amp is, but somehow gained the impression they were inferior to standard Class A / B or Class A. Could someone please enlighten me ?

 

Thanks,

Dennis

[aussievintage]

4 minutes ago, Berkel said:

Thanks. I really don't understand what a Class D amp is, but somehow gained the impression they were inferior to standard Class A / B or Class A. Could someone please enlighten me ?

 

Thanks,

Dennis

 

Well, that's one of the big discussions you can have around here.       Certainly, many years ago, that was the popular opinion.   Big advancements have been made.  My opinion is that, probably since Tripath started the ball rolling on big improvements to class D, there have been many good examples of class D amplifiers to rival the other classes.  I think it's fair to say, until very recently, some would add that and exception would be the very high end, but I believe even that is changing.

 

 

Some reading from recent discussions

 

 

 

 

[genkifd]

what about Audio GD - various people seem to love them. Hulgich audio recommends them to pair with their speakers

[Paul R]

Doge. Case is good, not the best. But innards is well built.

 

And it sounds pretty darned good.

 

Paul

 

 

[pulinap]

8 hours ago, Berkel said:

Thanks for all the replies and information.

How about current Chinese SS amps ? I really don't have room for a valve amp.

 

Dennis

Try Ghent Audio.....

[Rhythm Willie]

Agree with Paul about Doge, have a preamp "LP" model with upgraded caps and Psvarne tubes, the MM phono stage is very good even though I have an external MC/MM  pre, I run 4 solid state monoblock amps with it.

[HQD]

Back in 2002 I bought a Chinese made KT88 PP amp in HK.  It was total rubbish both audibly and on bench test.  And the KT88 tubes were even worse!  But I have had a few chinese made amps pass through my hands since then and some, especially some pre-amps, have been excellent.  I guess the moral is try them first or, if you can't, then do your homework and read independent reviews before buying.

(In my case the shipping cost more than the amp so return for a refund was not an option)