Dual HDMI output Denon AVR-X3500H problem

[chaddy]

I have finally updated my PJ to an Epson 9400   I have it plugged in to the Denon Monitor 2 HDMI output via 10m Ruipro 8K cable. TV plugged into Monitor 1 is a 4K Samsung LCD. Both have the same input capabilities.

Problem is when I set the Denon to Auto (Dual) in output settings I lose the video to the TV and have to reset to Monitor 1 output in the settings menu. The projector is in Standby and the Denon info page shows no signal being sent to the Monitor 2 output. 

My assumption is the Ruiopro cable being an Active cable is somehow fooling the Denon which is then prioritising video to Monitor 2.

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this as I'm copping a bit of flack from "The Boss" .

 

 

 

[betty boop]

hdmi cec turned off on all devices ?

[chaddy]

3 minutes ago, betty boop said:

hdmi cec turned off on all devices ?

Yep, one of the first things I did. Samsung call it Anywhere+ but all off.  

A google search yesterday did come up with a similar problem on one of the US forums and he blamed an Active cable.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by chaddy

[betty boop]

2 hours ago, chaddy said:

Yep, one of the first things I did. Samsung call it Anywhere+ but all off.  

A google search yesterday did come up with a similar problem on one of the US forums and he blamed an Active cable.

 

I cant comment re active cable as I dont use one, i use comsol 10m, however i have used an active cable couple of years ago in a kordz prs its problem was just it couldn't handle full bandwidth ie 50/60 and maxed out at 4k 24p

 

what I can tell you in all my testing and this is with a marantz av pre pro that shares the denon implementation it will seamlessly switch between sources either individual or dual 

 

if you have a non compliant display (one of mine is ) then it will top out on lowest common denominator. and even then with one non compliant display it will work seamlesly across both displays if one is off it will not factor in (EVER) I can switch on the fly. one display .. other display.... both display. it works

[cwt]

1 hour ago, chaddy said:

I have finally updated my PJ to an Epson 9400   I have it plugged in to the Denon Monitor 2 HDMI output via 10m Ruipro 8K cable. TV plugged into Monitor 1 is a 4K Samsung LCD. Both have the same input capabilities.

Problem is when I set the Denon to Auto (Dual) in output settings I lose the video to the TV and have to reset to Monitor 1 output in the settings menu. The projector is in Standby and the Denon info page shows no signal being sent to the Monitor 2 output.  

The "dual'' setting  is concerning as this may mean the denon doesn't do matrix switching like say an upmarket yammie ? If its not universal across the line though like Als pre pro..  Check the manual and see if you can send 2 different sources to 2 different outputs as a test 

Quote

While standard HDMI zone switching can only send HD video programmes to the main and second zones, Yamaha’s Advanced HDMI Zone Switching adds the capability to choose from all audio and video sources for playback in either zone. An on-screen graphical user interface makes it easy to browse and select content to enjoy from the second zone

 

[betty boop]

dual on denon and marantz basically ones as if just one display is connected if the other one is switched off and not using hdmi CEC. MUST make sure HDMI CEC is switched off on EVERYTHING. otherwise things interact even in standby...

[chaddy]

Definitely a splitter rather than a switch. Manual states that the Output Settings are automatically set to the lowest common resolution which was happening with the old Panny PJ. I thought the 4K capabilites of the Epson would solve that. Might have to have more of a play with the settings and try to set the Resolution manually.

[chaddy]

Found a work around, programmed my Harmony remote to change HDMI outputs in the Activity start-ups. Should keep the wife happy.

[chaddy]

Reply from Denon support (Qualifi). May help anyone doing a search for a fix. 
 

 

We get this issue from time to time and there is no "one" fix as it can vary from install to install and equipment used.

Yes, it could be the active cable as well as the EDID data information from the projector being communicated back to the Denon (most common scenario).

Check to see if the projector has 2 x HDMi inputs and if both are 4K enabled. If so, try the other HDMi input.

Another trick is to use an external HDMi splitter. These are pretty "dumb" devices and most of them don’t do a good job of passing through the EDID data through…which in your case may solve the issue. Cannot guarantee it will fix it but may be worth considering.

Edited December 23, 2019 by chaddy

[betty boop]

the use of a splitter is common cheap affordable means to bypass HDCP. however only needed where EDID is being screwed up due to faulty HDCP eg for some devices like fetch mighty which are known to have screwed up HDCP.

 

there are many of us using JVC and denon/marantz, along with active cables... so can only imagine there is something in the line other than these screwing up the HDCP. what are the source devices ? as it is the entire path that HDCP polls across  

[chaddy]

On 23/12/2019 at 9:14 PM, betty boop said:

 what are the source devices ? as it is the entire path that HDCP polls across  

Oppo 205, Apple TV 4K, PS4, PS3, IQ4. Switch is occasionally plugged into front HDMI input. The Samsung 4K TV is plugged into Monitor 1 output which is ARC capable so could be considered an input although I've turned off ARC in both TV and Denon. All other devices I've turned off HDMI-CEC if possible.

[betty boop]

2 hours ago, chaddy said:

Oppo 205, Apple TV 4K, PS4, PS3, IQ4. Switch is occasionally plugged into front HDMI input. The Samsung 4K TV is plugged into Monitor 1 output which is ARC capable so could be considered an input although I've turned off ARC in both TV and Denon. All other devices I've turned off HDMI-CEC if possible.

IQ4 is known to have issues with hdmi. cant comment on Swiitch or PS3 or PS4 these are all legacy devices, there could potentially be issues with them, cant comment on the sammy 4k (what model / year) whether it has any known issues of compatibility.  

 

I can say both oppo 205 and appletv 4k if had a xbox one x alll should work seamlessly with a current gen denon / marantz in such a setup. I do have a fetch mighty which is known to have issues and need to use a splitter/stripper wiht it to take care of its hdcp woes. these are cheap things pick up from jay car or office works.... and instead of using as a splitter you just use to pass through signal and they strip the hdcp inadvertently as the tech indicated. being cheap nasty devices they can also potentially introduce other  issues depending on equipment combo, which is why its best to suck and see wiht buying from jay car or office works who allow no questions asked returns.

 

hdmi requires everything in the chain to play ball. (including the cables) just one thing in the chain can throw a hiccup for it to be thrown out of whack and cause a hang up...

[chaddy]

The irony is I just sold an HDFury Vertex which would have solved all this. Didn't think I would need it with the Denon's dual output.

[betty boop]

3 minutes ago, chaddy said:

The irony is I just sold an HDFury Vertex which would have solved all this. Didn't think I would need it with the Denon's dual output.

i had a fury myself, however sold it as it was a pita wiht issues itself created with drop outs and hang ups and what not.i also used a blue stream which will work similarly however if can its better not to use these things if can get away without them.  i honestly dont know what device in your chain is causing an issue but once i sorted out my fetch mighty and switched off all my hdmi CEC made sure no interaction, mine works seamlessly. hopefully yours can too - though first ive heard of active cables being part of issue. dual output very much works and can work in isolation and even on the run but does rely on other devices playing the ball as should. 

[cwt]

It would be a good move to eliminate any hdcp issues as said Chaddy even without having the vertex . Leave the ps3 unhooked as its hdcp 1.4 and the rest of the hdcp2.2 devices hooked up and try .

 

A  few brands are now letting you switch between 1.4 and 2.2 now due to the less than solid compatibility between newer and older hdmi versions ; and hdmi standards are as per ce's interpretation sometimes which is why those with big engineering departments like Denon are more foolproof than others sometimes . The ps3 was a strange case as although it was hdmi1.3 it still got an upgrade for 3d [which is 1.4] but only at 1080i not 1080p because it didn't have the bandwidth being 1.3 ...

 

So that possibly introduces HDMI's lowest common denominator law depending on whats being sent to differing sinks ; this is only speculation though