STAX Headphones Owners & Discussion Thread

[Stump]

Good to hear AAG

Great write up.What source CD player are you using?

Cheers Eamonn

[AAG]

What source CD player are you using?

Cyrus CD8SE (2010 version) CD player with the PSX-R outboard power supply. It's a very precise and detailed sound that meshes well with valve amplification. Interconnects to the amp are Chord Crimson Plus at the moment, but I may upgrade them. The amp has XLR inputs but the CD only has RCA and digital outs. I've not yet heard an external DAC that improves significantly on the player's own DAC, but if I found one and it had XLR outs I'd change to XLR interconnects.

Edited May 6, 2011 by AAG

[LuzArt]

AAG - excellent review, thanks very much for sharing.

Do you know if your headphones can be run by other head amps or are Stax amps definately required? I've read about some amps having enough grunt to drive electrostatics but is there more to it than that? (other than a plug converter)

Ben

[pp312]

I definitely feel that after many different headphone setups I've finally found the right ones. I do still like both the Sennheiser HD-800 and Audez'e LCD-2 cans very much when driven by appropriate amps, but I feel the Stax electrostatics have less "character" and are more musical.

Very nice impressions, AAG. I'll keep the Stax combo in mind for my next lifetime as a multi-millionaire.

Funnily enough your comment about listening too loud because of a "distant" character with electrostatics is exactly what I found with the LCD-2 after the 650--you look for that dynamic punch, that funnelling straight into the ear-hole and initially miss it. The last few days I've been A/Bing the LCD-2 and 650 and I must say that though the former is clearly superior in most areas it isn't always so in sheer listenability or perhaps even musicality, especially on less than wonderful source material. The 650 is a remarkable phone and a classic at its price.

[AAG]

Do you know if your headphones can be run by other head amps or are Stax amps definately required? I've read about some amps having enough grunt to drive electrostatics but is there more to it than that? (other than a plug converter)

Short answer - you need a special amp, either a Stax amp or a another compatible electrostatic amp. You can't just plug them into an ordinary headphone amp.

Long answer:

Dynamic headphones (Grado, AKG, Audio-Technica, Sennheiser, etc) are exactly like miniature speakers, but they are very sensitive and require only small amounts of power. Consequently you can power them from the initial gain stage of an ordinary amp, which is what the 1/4" headphone jack on most integrated amps and preamps is doing (in some cases it's a buffered tap from the speaker output, but the principle is the same - feed the cans a stereo signal and they make music). Dedicated headphone amps are essentially high quality stand-alone preamps.

Electrostatic headphones are very different. Instead of a small speaker they have a sheet of thin plastic mounted between two metal grids. The plastic film is charged with a high voltage (580V in the case of Stax) and the music signal is applied to the grids. This causes the charged film to flex back and forth, and make sound pressure waves. In the end it does the same job as a dynamic speaker, but it goes about it in a different way.

So in order for electrostatic headphones to work the amp must supply the 580V bias voltage, and "normal" headphone amps don't do this.

There are a few companies that make dedicated headphone amps that will drive Stax headphones, so if you've read about amps other than Stax amps being used with Stax cans, then the writer has probably been referring to one of these. The Blue Hawaii is regarded as one of the best of the third-party amps for Stax headphones, but you are talking serious money.

[AAG]

Very nice impressions, AAG. I'll keep the Stax combo in mind for my next lifetime as a multi-millionaire.

Ha! I know the comment is tongue in cheek, but this reputation Stax has for being uber expensive is not deserved. In comparison to the cost of a pair of equivalent dynamic headphones and a good amp to drive them, Stax gear is quite reasonably priced.

The entry level 2070 headphone and amp package, which is VERY good, costs about $700. Of course the local retail price is around $1,700 and that puts most people off the idea, but it doesn't have to be a rich person's game if you shop around.

I guess the problem for many is that they already have an investment in dynamic cans and amplifiers and it costs to switch technologies.

[kunalraiker]

I enjoyed the SR 507 the day I heard them but they are by no strech of imagination ,close to the cost of some high end STAX setups.

Therefore if you have a decent dynamic setup,you can achieve a more involving experience.

[Henry Vu]

Very nice impressions, AAG. I'll keep the Stax combo in mind for my next lifetime as a multi-millionaire.

Funnily enough your comment about listening too loud because of a "distant" character with electrostatics is exactly what I found with the LCD-2 after the 650--you look for that dynamic punch, that funnelling straight into the ear-hole and initially miss it. The last few days I've been A/Bing the LCD-2 and 650 and I must say that though the former is clearly superior in most areas it isn't always so in sheer listenability or perhaps even musicality, especially on less than wonderful source material. The 650 is a remarkable phone and a classic at its price.

What headphone amp are you running? I found this disappeared when moving to the Lyr.

I enjoyed the SR 507 the day I heard them but they are by no strech of imagination ,close to the cost of some high end STAX setups.

Therefore if you have a decent dynamic setup,you can achieve a more involving experience.

You're not wrong, the BHSE and SR009 is a $10000 option...

[pp312]

What headphone amp are you running? I found this disappeared when moving to the Lyr.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought an amp could make that much difference to distance perspective. In any case I'd be interested in AAG's comments on the Lyr as he sold one a couple of weeks back and commented to me that he thought it

too powerful for the LCD-2--or maybe I mistook his meaning. I found it a little odd as everything I've read about the LCD-2 suggests it needs all the power it can get and that the Lyr was designed with it in mind. Hopefuly AAG will clarify.

[AAG]

I enjoyed the SR 507 the day I heard them but they are by no strech of imagination ,close to the cost of some high end STAX setups.

Therefore if you have a decent dynamic setup,you can achieve a more involving experience.

I don't quite get your meaning. The first and second statements are unrelated.

A Stax Lambda series headphone+amp setup will cost you from $700-$2,500 (import prices). To get equivalent performance from a dynamic setup you would pay the same sort of money, or more.

I'm not denying that dynamic headphones can sound terrific - I'm sure many people would prefer them to electrostatics. My point is that Stax are perceived as being extremely expensive, but they are actually not. Sure you can pay from $2,700-9,000 for a Stax Omega series setup if you want, but you can also spend that sort of money on dynamic cans and an amp.

Edited May 7, 2011 by AAG

[kunalraiker]

You're not wrong, the BHSE and SR009 is a $10000 option...

What Stax setup is the thread about.

[kunalraiker]

I don't quite get your meaning. The first and second statements are unrelated.

A Stax Lambda series headphone+amp setup will cost you from $700-$2,500 (import prices). To get equivalent performance from a dynamic setup you would pay the same sort of money, or more.

I'm not denying that dynamic headphones can sound terrific - I'm sure many people would prefer them to electrostatics. My point is that Stax are perceived as being extremely expensive, but they are actually not. Sure you can pay from $2,700-9,000 for a Stax Omega series setup if you want, but you can also spend that sort of money on dynamic cans and an amp.

I'am implying to the comments you made previously,please get a decent synamic setup and be done with it.

There is no future instax,you could spend that money for upgrading your speaker rig.

[AAG]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought an amp could make that much difference to distance perspective. In any case I'd be interested in AAG's comments on the Lyr as he sold one a couple of weeks back and commented to me that he thought it

too powerful for the LCD-2--or maybe I mistook his meaning. I found it a little odd as everything I've read about the LCD-2 suggests it needs all the power it can get and that the Lyr was designed with it in mind. Hopefuly AAG will clarify.

High power output is the Lyr's particular trick but I felt that it sacrificed bass control and treble extension for the sake of raw power. It was just a touch too "warm" and "valvey" for my liking, but was still a good amp for $500.

I heard the LCD-2 headphones on several amplifiers, including the Lyr, and I didn't think that the Lyr's high power did anything outstanding for them, or that the Lyr was the best match with them overall. They are also really not that hard to drive (nowhere near as difficult a load as the Hifiman HE-6 cans) but they do benefit from quality amplification.

Yes I know that Schiit designed the Lyr with orthodynamic headphones especially in mind, but I can only go by my own listening experiences. For what it's worth I thought the Musical Fidelity M1 was a significantly better match for the LCD-2s. Had I not bought the Stax setup but instead kept my T1 and LCD-2 cans, that's the amp I would have bought.

[AAG]

I'am implying to the comments you made previously,please get a decent synamic setup and be done with it.

There is no future instax,you could spend that money for upgrading your speaker rig.

Thank you for your insightful, cogent and polite contribution to the ongoing discussion. I will certainly give your suggestions the attention they deserve.

[dr-wyas]

I'am implying to the comments you made previously,please get a decent synamic setup and be done with it.

There is no future instax,you could spend that money for upgrading your speaker rig.

Yes. I also find your comments meaningful and extremely relevant. Thank you for enlightening us to whatever it is you were enlightening us to.

Edited May 8, 2011 by dr-wyas

[firefly0071]

I found AAG's reviews and comments interesting, educational (I don't have Stax earphones) and enlightening. This also applies to other people helping with the discussion.

While I have dynamic headphones, I am prepared to listen to different sets such as STax and discuss.

My lack of direct experience of Stax is that not all hifi stores provide Stax and when I started, I had more of a student budget and upgraded from there.

I have listened to Stax for five minutes and it was an older model headphone. It was too short for a full evaluation.

Hence I appreciate and respect this thread.

Edited May 7, 2011 by firefly0071

[LuzArt]

Thanks for your replies AAG, very insightful. Given the nature of electrostatics design it makes sense they need a matched design of amplification.

Can I also say I've no idea how one could suggest they're not worth buying because they're an old design or not the future. For example who really would have believed back in the 90's that valve gear would become popular again and not just vintage, second hand items? Pretty narrow minded really.

Ben

[pp312]

High power output is the Lyr's particular trick but I felt that it sacrificed bass control and treble extension for the sake of raw power. It was just a touch too "warm" and "valvey" for my liking, but was still a good amp for $500.

Thanks, AAG. I actually find the LCD-2 a touch bright (yes, it's true. I may be the only person in Christendom, but I do), so the Lyr may be ideal for me. However, because of the nature of the music I listen to--compilation files with differing volume levels--I really value a remote volume control with fine increments such as you only get on a digital amp like the Onkyo 9555 I'm currently using, so I'm reluctant to move from that. I do wish dedicated amp manufacturers would consider convenience as well as sound quality; there are people--the infirmed and so forth--who absolutely need remote volume.

[AAG]

I do wish dedicated amp manufacturers would consider convenience as well as sound quality

I couldn't agree more, this has puzzled me for ages - WHY are there virtually no headphone amps with remote control? I can't think of a single reason not to add one other than cost, which would be minimal.

[Henry Vu]

I couldn't agree more, this has puzzled me for ages - WHY are there virtually no headphone amps with remote control? I can't think of a single reason not to add one other than cost, which would be minimal.

Because you are supposed to be quite close to the amp? as you are limited to cable length?

I've asked a friend to try pick me up a pair of 507's while they are in japan, seems like they will bridge the gap between my lambda sig and 02.

[pp312]

Because you are supposed to be quite close to the amp? as you are limited to cable length?

Fair point, but doesn't alter the fact that when you're settled back in your easy chair with your eyes closed totally engrossed in a favourite piece, it's so much easier to have the remote in your hand with your finger on the volume button ready to adjust for that sudden peak that's just a little bit ear-splitting, or for the next track that happens to be at a noticeably higher or lower volume, than to have to sit up and reach over to the amp each time. Might sound like self-indulgence, but I feel it's a significant part of the total immersion in the listening experience that we're all aiming for.

[AAG]

Because you are supposed to be quite close to the amp? as you are limited to cable length?

Ah, but if you have a 5m extension cable then the limitation disappears. The existence of XLR inputs on a lot of amps means you can put them right next to your listening position, but even so most people will probably still keep their amps in the A/V rack along with everything else.

I've asked a friend to try pick me up a pair of 507's while they are in japan, seems like they will bridge the gap between my lambda sig and 02.

Cool - I think you'll be pleased with them. I've been using the new gear a fair bit this weekend (what a surprise) and I'm totally happy with it. It was well worth all the hassle and financial loss of selling off my old gear and ordering from OS.

What amp are you using?

[Henry Vu]

I have a custom amp built off the "transitor 3.0 amp" design.

[veli_good]

Seems new stax phones are more easy to drive than older versions

[AAG]

I have a custom amp built off the "transitor 3.0 amp" design.

I'm not familiar with that design - do you have a link to a schematic or other information?