Whole House Surge Protection

[Andy0217]

Hi Folks, 

 

This may have been covered before, and apologies if so, 

 

I have dedicated circuits for the HT, but want to get a Sparky to fit off a whole house surge protection unit for spikes, lightening etc... in the switch box, 

 

Anyone had this done, and if so any recommendations please....I have no idea on this stuff, would assume a mob like Clipsal for example would have a suitable unit that is wired into the panel that will protect all circuits, 

 

Just want to be sure when I do get a Sparky in the right unit goes in, 

Any help appreciated, 

 

Thanks,

Andrew

 

 

 

 

[pwstereo]

I found a brochure from Clipsal that explains the ways and means, then shows their products.

https://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/Files/Brochures/I0000038.pdf

[pwstereo]

NHP have a similar document, but it seems more technical.

https://www.nhp.com.au/files/editor_upload/File/Brochures/Power-Distribution-and-Protection/CirprotecSurgeProtection-BR-002-EN.pdf

[Guest]

I have these at the switchbox level protecting dedicated circuits.

 

https://www.thortechnologies.com.au/product/drm95-30a/

https://www.thortechnologies.com.au/product/drm95-20a/

[Andy0217]

You Gents are super stars, thanks so much,

 

Exactly what I was after...at least now when I speak with a Sparky I can show them what I want, instead of having no clue and them looking at me like I just landed from Mars

[Guest rmpfyf]

13 hours ago, Marc said:

I have these at the switchbox level protecting dedicated circuits.

 

https://www.thortechnologies.com.au/product/drm95-30a/

https://www.thortechnologies.com.au/product/drm95-20a/

Have this also. Quite good, though per circuit - if you're going this route plan comprehensive switchboard and reticulation upgrade IMHO. There's a lot you can do.

[Assisi]

I had a problem with high supply voltage that meant solar feed out was restricted once voltage was over 254 volts.  This happened regularly for me.  I had a SolarIQ unit installed at the switch board.  It is now called an EdgeIQ (link below). It regenerates all the power going through the switch board.  For me the entire house voltage is 230 volts regardless of the supply side.  Later the power utility did correct the supply voltage for me.  Too late though.

 

The unit incorporates surge protection.  There are other benefits but the cost is more than just a surge protection facility at the switch board referenced in posts above.

 

http://www.edgeelectrons.com/edgeiq

 

John

[betty boop]

16 hours ago, Andy0217 said:

Hi Folks, 

 

This may have been covered before, and apologies if so, 

 

I have dedicated circuits for the HT, but want to get a Sparky to fit off a whole house surge protection unit for spikes, lightening etc... in the switch box, 

 

Anyone had this done, and if so any recommendations please....I have no idea on this stuff, would assume a mob like Clipsal for example would have a suitable unit that is wired into the panel that will protect all circuits, 

 

Just want to be sure when I do get a Sparky in the right unit goes in, 

Any help appreciated, 

 

Thanks,

Andrew

 

 

 

 

No problem get any local sparky they will install at your switchboard to protect from incoming cost ? $130 is what was for me using Grey army sparkie...

[Guest rmpfyf]

17 hours ago, Andy0217 said:

Hi Folks, 

 

This may have been covered before, and apologies if so, 

 

I have dedicated circuits for the HT, but want to get a Sparky to fit off a whole house surge protection unit for spikes, lightening etc... in the switch box, 

 

Anyone had this done, and if so any recommendations please....I have no idea on this stuff, would assume a mob like Clipsal for example would have a suitable unit that is wired into the panel that will protect all circuits, 

 

Just want to be sure when I do get a Sparky in the right unit goes in, 

Any help appreciated, 

 

Thanks,

Andrew

 

 

 

 

Only other thing to consider - what are you trying to protect against?

 

There is no blanket 'surge protection' standard. Very good 'just' surge protection is not expensive. Add filtering etc... It's a long rabbit hole.

 

Do you have specific problems with your power?

[betty boop]

@Andy0217

 

this thread from @agelessgoodguy

 

is what encouraged me.... its real ! 

 

 

it is this little device fitted to his fuse box that saved his house from a surge from the street power

 

 

 

[betty boop]

This was what was fitted to my board by grey army sparkie... its the ABB unit in the mix,

 

he also said surge protection is best at the board.... too late at the individual power boards as already in the house and in the circuits. can imagine the cost to repair with all the wires through the house under the ouse, in the walls in the ceiling etc etc ... would be VERY expensive  

 

as mentioned this unit was $130. labour was picked up with another out door light i had sparkie do so can't say how much was but it wasn't much or a lot of work ... 

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

This was what was fitted to my board by grey army sparkie... its the ABB unit in the mix,

 

That doesn't appear to be wired to protect your whole home though the concept is generally sound. For whole-of-home an 80A version single-phase is worth around $300, the usual three-phase versions around $550 and up. 

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

he also said surge protection is best at the board.... too late at the individual power boards as already in the house and in the circuits. can imagine the cost to repair with all the wires through the house under the ouse, in the walls in the ceiling etc etc ... would be VERY expensive  

 

No. Your wiring needs to be rated for surge well in excess of what that thing does - a standard insulation resistance test is at 50kV, your surge protector is done at 275VAC. Your wiring is (far) more likely to fail/deteriorate from over-current than surge voltages.

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

labour was picked up with another out door light i had sparkie do so can't say how much was but it wasn't much or a lot of work ... 

 

Depending when this was done your existing CB's should have been upgraded to RCBO's.

 

Actually I'd be concerned that you appear to have a 15A rated surge suppression device connected to a 32A breaker. If that's as it appears, then in the event of over voltage at >15A load it may fail to function (in addition to other safety issues). Hoping there's something I'm missing from that picture.

Edited May 29, 2020 by rmpfyf
Noticed the breaker/SPD rating mismatch

[Andy0217]

My aim is the ensure protection not just for the whole house, but especially for the PJ and Subwoofers that will be plugged straight into the wall...

 

 

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Andy0217 said:

My aim is the ensure protection not just for the whole house, but especially for the PJ and Subwoofers that will be plugged straight into the wall...

 

 

it can cover all those andy, does for me, and was main reason to get. as it happens i had individual surge boards and some after some while (just age) would randomly trip and I could replace all those with the protection at the board. In fact my sparkie specifically asked me not to get surge boards again as they all can have problems with earth leakage over time. Please dont take my posts as suggesting to do exactly as I have. the right step is to get a sparkie (qualified electrician) in to evaluate your actual house and installation to recommend what you need specifically for your context. thats what i did. they will be able to suggest what's needed to work in what you have and what wanting to do. not kind of thing can be done via forum here or appropriate for that matter  its not like this is a DIY type thing. get some appropriate and qualified advice from someone actually coming and looking at what you have.

[Andy0217]

Thanks BB...all good I will have Sparky to assess and install what will work...

[Guest rmpfyf]

2 hours ago, Andy0217 said:

My aim is the ensure protection not just for the whole house, but especially for the PJ and Subwoofers that will be plugged straight into the wall...

 

 

 

Really depends what you want to spend.

 

Whole of house is going to be in the order $500 installed or so if single phase, more if three phase. More again if fitting it requires surgery or if your distribution board isn't up to code. You can cheap out with lesser surge suppressors but... Don't.

 

A surge-protected UL-rated powerboard capable of more than a few hundred Joules of energy, with response within a few nanoseconds or less and clamping at 275VAC is going to do the same job electrically.

 

There is no difference functionally insofar as surge suppression. Be careful not to buy a board with a breaker and confuse this much, it's not the same thing - one current limits, one voltage limits. Thor makes a nice product as do others - they also underwrite it. I have their boards and a DRM95 (30A); the core technology/guts/etc is the same.

 

Some may have all sorts of filtering which you may or may not want.

 

Get a photo of your switchboard up and there's people here happy to offer comment - a few sparkies too.

Edited May 29, 2020 by rmpfyf

[Guest rmpfyf]

Two other things

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

In fact my sparkie specifically asked me not to get surge boards again as they all can have problems with earth leakage over time. 

 

This isn't true - depends how they're built - and all Type 2 suppressor devices (E.g. those sitting in your switchboard) contain varistors that will age to a point that they are no longer effective.

 

They are also most effective when the devices they're intended to protect are within 10m of the suppressor. If longer, the suppression is to be repeated to be as effective. This is part of IEC 61643-12, and is why good manufacturers of suppression devices will sell you both a box for your switchboard and a powerboard with suppression as a kit (Thor is no exception here).

 

 ABB has an excellent guide on the above and other relevant stuff - look for 'OVR Practical guide for the protection against surges'.

 

In short, you want both ideally.

[agelessgoodguy]

Thanks for reminding me Al of those nasty shocks! But seriously in the 21 years living at that home, we had two massive electrical events, one a lightening strike on large gum tree in the front yard, it having a telephone line passing through it gave the lightening free entry to the house, didn't even hear the damage occurring, but 3 TV, modems, PC's, telephones, TV aerial amps and other gear, so you get the picture. The same tree featured in another event this time even more dramatic a few years later on. The tree at about 60' of height had started to split down its centre so we arranged to have United Energy take it down, yes we'll do it next week, then next week etc, but a gale force wind came and blew a large section of the tree out into the street one evening, On its way down the tree branches picked up the 22000 V power  lines and then still falling laid them onto the 415 volt domestic supply lines, there were plenty of blue bright sparks that night as everything went quiet.  Several homes along the road nearby lost everything electrical, but thanks to that trusty Surge protector Al posted a pic of we had minimal damage. My 7 channel  Electra amp seemed to be a victim though, so reluctantly and with a high degree of concern went down to visit Arthur in Hawthorn. He was very interested to see how his design had taken the shock so to speak, after few checks he simply replaced one cartridge fuse and announced it was "fixed". He was non the less amazed at the way his design had taken the blast, pointing out it was the first time someone had tested his design in this way! I don't want to be his guinea pig again and like AL I've also had new surge systems fitted to my new home (without tall trees this time)

Edited May 29, 2020 by agelessgoodguy

[Andy0217]

I will get a pic of the board up tonight...thank you to all,

 

With respect to cost...I am not fussed in the slightest...considering I have just hung a Z1 the last thing I want to do is skimp on this,...

 

[betty boop]

35 minutes ago, Andy0217 said:

I will get a pic of the board up tonight...thank you to all,

 

With respect to cost...I am not fussed in the slightest...considering I have just hung a Z1 the last thing I want to do is skimp on this,...

 

While posting a pic here is fine. Please get a sparkie yes qualified, licensed  and registered one (for your state) come quote. They will need to actually inspect the board and likely pull stuff apart to understand how wired up and also take into consideration of house wiring and circuits and connection to street(had to do in my case- we are not directly connected to the main street). To understand not just what’s possible but what you need as well. You can’t do this on the web !

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

While posting a pic here is fine. Please get a sparkie yes qualified, licensed  and registered one (for your state) come quote. They will need to actually inspect the board and likely pull stuff apart to understand how wired up and also take into consideration of house wiring and circuits and connection to street(had to do in my case- we are not directly connected to the main street). To understand not just what’s possible but what you need as well. You can’t do this on the web !

 

Ease up.

 

There is nothing wrong with posting pics, and no one has suggested doing unlicensed work (far from it).

 

Getting opinions to make an informed decision is smart - that's all that's happening here.

 

A type 2 suppressor is a change to mains and doesn't just require a sparky - done right it requires an inspection post completion and a certificate of compliance. That's not a $130 job done right.

 

It is also no more (and sometimes less) effective than good powerboard with surge suppressors. They will age similarly - both are varistor based - only difference is you will need a sparky when your mains board item eventually fails, and your house will not work (in your case Al the circuits that appear to be subd off your 32A breaker) - whereas when a powerboard varistor fails you simply replace the powerboard. 

 

There are cartridge based suppressors for mains wiring also but unless you're a sparky you legally cannot change the cartridge.

 

Buyer beware.

[Andy0217]

Don’t worry I am not changing anything...any work will be done by a licensed sparky ...

[betty boop]

21 minutes ago, Andy0217 said:

Don’t worry I am not changing anything...any work will be done by a licensed sparky ...

get em in to review and quote appropriately to meet your needs what trying to do and what best suits your house circuits and current board. if not sure get another quote another review and quote. there is not much more to this....  

[Addicted to music]

15 minutes ago, betty boop said:

get em in to review and quote appropriately to meet your needs what trying to do and what best suits your house circuits and current board. if not sure get another quote another review and quote. there is not much more to this....  

definitely get more than 1 quote, and preferable the same products and similar work done.  you'd be surprised at how different they are.   Even for Government Contracts that has 2 accredited suppliers,  one was around $50K and the other $15K,  for similar needs and work required.

[betty boop]

27 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

definitely get more than 1 quote, and preferable the same products and similar work done.  you'd be surprised at how different they are.   Even for Government Contracts that has 2 accredited suppliers,  one was around $50K and the other $15K,  for similar needs and work required.

Indeed never any harm, costs just depends what’s involved a board, circuits, re work rewire board update etc, won’t know till get quoted,