davewantsmoore Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 On 06/06/2020 at 4:05 AM, astonmartinv8 said: bringing out the magic that the $9500 DAC forgot to Expand
kdoot Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 Hey folks. I have had a DS DAC for something like 4 years now, and for the first 3 and a bit I ran it direct to power amp. I'm a fan of transparent clean resolving but not harsh or edgy sound, and I am not a fan of valves in general. Despite the DS DAC's volume control being actually lossless (though as discussed by one poster earlier, the musical signal gets pushed down relative to the DAC's own noise floor) and the output stage being nothing but direct taps from the output transformer driven by reasonably high current switching devices on the input side, I have ended up with a pre-amp in the system. (Fully balanced, solid state, to match the DAC and power amp.) It's not better in every respect, but bass is better defined and the soundstage is bigger and more free from the speakers. There was noticeable colouration of the signal (not unpleasant, but not right) before I put the pre-amp on isolation springs. Some of the fun was dialled back by the springs but on balance I prefer this set of compromises to those I had without the pre-amp. It's a close-run thing and even for those prioritising transparency and accuracy in their gear choices, sometimes the more complicated system seems to take you a bit closer to where you want to be. PS Audio has a much more expensive unit based on the DS DAC architecture in the works, including a lot more current capability in the switches that drive the output transformer and a more flexible level matching system. That one might be the DAC that unequivocally sounds best without a pre-amp. The existing DS... close but maybe not quite.
tripitaka Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) On 18/09/2020 at 4:06 AM, davewantsmoore said: Expand Edit: quote lost above, but it was the bit about bringing out the magic a 9.5K dac forgot to Indeed but, for someone at a more modest price point, I knew something was up seeing my power amp go into clip protection when connected to my dac (on a fast attack transient at decent volume) I know that says more about my dac than much else, but at least it doesnt happen now with a preamp. Edited September 18, 2020 by tripitaka
davewantsmoore Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 On 18/09/2020 at 8:13 AM, tripitaka said: I know that says more about my dac than much else, but at least it doesnt happen now with a preamp. Expand So you are running a smaller input into your power amp now (ie. less SPL) than you were without a power amp?????? ..... That doesn't seem like apples to apples. If there's some other reason why you got clipping with out a preamp (resolved with a preamp) .... then something is "broken".
tripitaka Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) On 18/09/2020 at 8:30 AM, davewantsmoore said: So you are running a smaller input into your power amp now (ie. less SPL) than you were without a power amp?????? ..... That doesn't seem like apples to apples. If there's some other reason why you got clipping with out a preamp (resolved with a preamp) .... then something is "broken". Expand We are in agreement. The preamp vol. is wound out to max [ edit: preamp gain is 12 dB] so the dac is now operating at lower output voltage. My opinion has been that in MY system the preamp is compensating for dac deficiencies. I am also assuming that other improvements (mainly imaging) are for the same reason, but I can't prove that. Edited September 18, 2020 by tripitaka
mloutfie Posted September 19, 2020 Posted September 19, 2020 If you're getting to high voltage out of the DAC that cannot be handled by your amp input. You can fix it easily with a simple voltage divider circuit. I did this long time ago when my DAC keep overdriving my minidsp
tripitaka Posted September 19, 2020 Posted September 19, 2020 On 19/09/2020 at 1:42 AM, mloutfie said: If you're getting to high voltage out of the DAC that cannot be handled by your amp input. You can fix it easily with a simple voltage divider circuit. I did this long time ago when my DAC keep overdriving my minidsp Expand Cheers, though apparently solved now, I have assumed that the problem was actually that the amp was responding to a clipped input signal (from the dac). Still, in the dac's defense, I was running 2 poweramps from it - so now the preamp supplies the 2 poweramps and seems to do a more competent job of it.
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