wolster Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 This is for my early Linn Sondek LP12. I have upgraded this TT in other areas and now I think it is time to look at retiring the Grace 707 tonearm. While the Grace is a very musical and popular match to the LP12, I am told that a tonearm upgrade will provide the best performance boost. My budget is $600 so I am limited. I can buy a good used Linn Ittok from the U.K. for A$525. Other options I have looked at are the Roksan Nima (used), the Project 9cc, which is fitted to the new cheaper Linn turntables, and the Consonance T988, which gets very good reviews but would be fiddly to fit to the LP12. For context, LP12 -> Linn Kairn pre -> Linn LK140 power -> Linn Keilidh floorstanders. So, gentlemen, your comments and suggestions would be much appreciated. Cheers wolster
cheekyboy Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Wal, do you need to change the armboard? I presume you're restricted to 9" arms as well? Cheers, Keith
wolster Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Keith, yes, I am looking at 9" arms to fit the existing board if possible.
Warren M. Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 This is for my early Linn Sondek LP12.I have upgraded this TT in other areas and now I think it is time to look at retiring the Grace 707 tonearm. While the Grace is a very musical and popular match to the LP12, I am told that a tonearm upgrade will provide the best performance boost. My budget is $600 so I am limited. I can buy a good used Linn Ittok from the U.K. for A$525. Other options I have looked at are the Roksan Nima (used), the Project 9cc, which is fitted to the new cheaper Linn turntables, and the Consonance T988, which gets very good reviews but would be fiddly to fit to the LP12. For context, LP12 -> Linn Kairn pre -> Linn LK140 power -> Linn Keilidh floorstanders. So, gentlemen, your comments and suggestions would be much appreciated. Cheers wolster What cartridge are you using and do you expect to change cartridges with this alternative arm?
cheekyboy Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Wal, you could look at the 9" Jelco SA-750DB, which has a pivot to spindle distance of 214mm..........don't know how close that is to your present arm. There is also a 10" Jelco SA-750EB, which has a pivot to spindle distance of 240mm and it may or may not fit. I've been using the 12" version on my Garrard and have found it a very good arm that performs well above this price point too. Good luck with the search. Cheers, Keith
caddisgeek Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 How would you say those Jelco's compare to an RB300 Cheeky?
cheekyboy Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 How would you say those Jelco's compare to an RB300 Cheeky? Hi Steve, I prefer the Jelco to the RB300 and also the RB600 and the latter I consider to be a very good tonearm. Cheers, Keith
wolster Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 What cartridge are you using and do you expect to change cartridges with this alternative arm? Hi Warren I am using a Supex SDX-1000 MC. It seems to still be in very good order but I am open to suggestions.
soundfan Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Here is a Jelco within your budget: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Jelco-Arm-SA-250ST-Tonearm-/230627352595?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b2762013#ht_3339wt_1042
Warren M. Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 How would you say those Jelco's compare to an RB300 Cheeky? If the LP12 is pre-Nirvana then the RB300 is too heavy for it and does not work well on it. Even on a Nirvana, the suspension springs need to be in very good nick. If Cirkus or good Nirvana then the RB301 is not a bad choice if you like the sound - it is a more subtle arm than the original RB300 but still is too forthright for my tastes.
soundfan Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Steve,I prefer the Jelco to the RB300 and also the RB600 and the latter I consider to be a very good tonearm. Cheers, Keith A rewired RB300 is a different beast entirely from the standard arm. Chalk and Cheese in fact.
cheekyboy Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) A rewired RB300 is a different beast entirely from the standard arm. Chalk and Cheese in fact. Hi Chris, yes I've heard a rewired RB300 and it did sound very good indeed, but I wasn't unhappy with my Planar 3 with the RB300 arm either, and as a matter of fact, it was freakishly good for a stock unmodified deck. I did do some mods to the P25 but the RB600 arm was stock, but a beautiful arm nonetheless. I guess it depends on your personal taste too, but I found the 12" Jelco arm a better match for both the standard and modified Denon LOMC carts I was using, so that should be taken into account as well. Also, Wal did indicate he had a budget of $600 and both those arms I recommended come in under that. I have seen the Jelco SA-250ST but I've never heard one and thus can't recommend it to him...............have you heard this arm Chris? Cheers, Keith Edited May 30, 2011 by cheekyboy
Ken Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Wolster, I am also using a Supex SDX-1000, it is fitted in a Zeta Arm on a Townshend Rock, the Zeta is my all time favorite arm, total control with stunning performance, but I think from the old memory bank that the Zeta was considered slightly on the heavy side for the LP12. The best combinations I have tried on an LP12 with an MC is the Ittok (still a great arm) an Alphason HRS 100 (also a great arm) the SME 309 (not the 3009) and the Ekos, the latter two are probaly out of your budget. Interesting that you note the Nima, as it is in someways similar to the Hadcock arms, which I used with a Decca Gold on an LP12 with stunning results. Ken
Warren M. Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hi WarrenI am using a Supex SDX-1000 MC. It seems to still be in very good order but I am open to suggestions. It's a wonderful cartridge. I lusted after one 2nd hand for a long time in an earlier life. Retipped by Garrotts they were even better. $600 is not a lot to play with on the new product market but there are many options on the 2nd-hand market. A wonderful old arm is the Mission 774 (NOT any later Mission arms like the 774C etc). It might need a rewire, but there are many of them that come and go on the eBay market for between $250 and $450. I doubt you would find an Alphason in your price range but it is one of the better arms for use on an LP12. I actually prefer the Akito II to the Ittok, but that is a matter of personal taste. Some Ittoks have dicky bearings. They both handle MCs like yours very well. You can get Akito IIs much more readily for between $300 and $400, and they apparently improve substantially with rewiring though I never did that with mine. You certainly are not going to get an Ekos in that price range - the sound substantially better. Likewise a Naim Aro (probably the best unipivot for the LP12), if you ever see one on eBay. BTW, I think Johnnie of AudioOrigami (audioorigami@gmail.com) in Scotland likes the Grace arms on LP12s and rewires them. You might want to pop him an email to see what he says. He is the rewire and repair king of UK tonearms. Regards Warren
soundfan Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 It's a wonderful cartridge. I lusted after one 2nd hand for a long time in an earlier life. Retipped by Garrotts they were even better.$600 is not a lot to play with on the new product market but there are many options on the 2nd-hand market. A wonderful old arm is the Mission 774 (NOT any later Mission arms like the 774C etc). It might need a rewire, but there are many of them that come and go on the eBay market for between $250 and $450. I doubt you would find an Alphason in your price range but it is one of the better arms for use on an LP12. I actually prefer the Akito II to the Ittok, but that is a matter of personal taste. Some Ittoks have dicky bearings. They both handle MCs like yours very well. You can get Akito IIs much more readily for between $300 and $400, and they apparently improve substantially with rewiring though I never did that with mine. You certainly are not going to get an Ekos in that price range - the sound substantially better. Likewise a Naim Aro (probably the best unipivot for the LP12), if you ever see one on eBay. BTW, I think Johnnie of AudioOrigami (audioorigami@gmail.com) in Scotland likes the Grace arms on LP12s and rewires them. You might want to pop him an email to see what he says. He is the rewire and repair king of UK tonearms. Regards Warren I had a quick look on ebay earlier today for an Alphason,none going at the minute. They are a wonderful arm. And as for Johnnie at Audio Origami; IMO he is the king of rewiring tonearms.
djb Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) wally buy the nima when u tire of it i can but it on roksan where it belongs i have a rewired rb 250 wonderful counding and a good weight 4 MC the 600 would b better Edited May 30, 2011 by djb
soundfan Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Chris, yes I've heard a rewired RB300 and it did sound very good indeed, but I wasn't unhappy with my Planar 3 with the RB300 arm either, and as a matter of fact, it was freakishly good for a stock unmodified deck. I did do some mods to the P25 but the RB600 arm was stock, but a beautiful arm nonetheless. I guess it depends on your personal taste too, but I found the 12" Jelco arm a better match for both the standard and modified Denon LOMC carts I was using, so that should be taken into account as well.Also, Wal did indicate he had a budget of $600 and both those arms I recommended come in under that. I have seen the Jelco SA-250ST but I've never heard one and thus can't recommend it to him...............have you heard this arm Chris? Cheers, Keith I have heard one once (Jelco), but it was a while ago. It was carrying an Empire MM cart at the time, and sounded pretty good too.
ozcal Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Am I correct in thinking that Jelco used to make many of the low cost arms for British turntable manufacturers. The current crop certainly look very similar to the likes of the Mission774LC etc. The ones I remember were not that great so I am assuming the arms bearing their own name are built to a much higher Standard. I aggree Warren The Alphason HR 100s is /was an incredible arm.
wolster Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 wally buy the nima when u tire of it i can but it on roksan where it belongs David, do I detect a degree of guilt at the sheer neglect that Roksan has had from you since she moved in? ;-)
MrRogers Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 A rewired (cardas) Rega RB250 / RB300 with an aftermarket counterweight is very hard to beat. Which other new arm under $1000, even $2000 comes close?
andyr Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Likewise a Naim Aro (probably the best unipivot for the LP12), if you ever see one on eBay. Regards Warren That's flat earth (ie. Naim/Linn) folklore but not true, IMO, Warren. I suggest the Graham 2.2 is the best UP you can buy for an LP12 - the Phantom is, alas, rather too heavy (why anyone would buy an arm which lacks headshell slots is beyond me). And the Moerch UP4 is at least the equal of the Aro (and much lighter than the G2.2). Regards, Andy
Full Range Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Would an SME 3009 suit wolster ? It will require a base connection plate to suit the LP12 arm board FR
ozcal Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Would an SME 3009 suit wolster ?It will require a base connection plate to suit the LP12 arm board FR I wouldn't have thought the 3009 would be much if any upgrade over the Grace particularly where MC carts are concerned, FR.
TLL Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I have both Graham 2.0 and 2.2 sitting on the shelves, PM me if you could stretch your budget. Otherwise the Jelco is an excellent arm as recommended by Keith. Zeta is also vey good arm with lp-12, but I don't think it is within your budget. I had a fully modded RB250, rewired and structurally modded cost me more than $700 when aud was low, in my system and with my carts, I did not find my "factory" modded RB250 was any spectacular as read from the internet, may be it was just me, my carts and my phono etc.
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